Two Cents

Friday, May 29, 2009 9:56 AM EDT

Liberty University's banning of the campus Democratic Party due to supposed moral inconsistencies with Christianity violates the idea of teaching students well-rounded thought processes without favoring one voice over another. Did Jesus practice censorship and torture?



I just wanted to show our city that we can do fun events here --- Majorpalooza showed that. We can have a 5k run and we can have a good free family fun day.

Why June 6 to celebrate Alaska -- do the city officials really think it is appropriate to throw a big party on the anniversary of D-Day? I could understand if there were some historical signifigance to Alaska, but there isn't.

Auburn teachers start at $49,000 a year with a masters degree and a few teachers make $85,000 a year. They work 185 days a year and how about their pensions --- a good majority retire at age 55.

I think the children involved in stoning the ducks at Hoopes Park should be held responsible by doing community service regardless of

their age.




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The Citizens' Say

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There are 111 comment(s)

auburn~no~class wrote on Jun 3, 2009 9:37 AM:

" is karl saying hes Catholic if so then i guess he better change his way of thinking cause i am and i can tell ya right now you don`t know the have of it karl o wait maybe you do you in salt people way to much bi**h about people and there spelling like you mr perfecked. just like some other`s in here do and as for the spell check in here ya the put a line under the word that spelld wrong and sins im not a real good speller that don`t do s**t for me thank you so the day you all get of other`s back and talk about what`s in the paper then i guess ill just keep this up. "

cm wrote on Jun 3, 2009 9:17 AM:

" movedsouth wrote on Jun 3, 2009 6:44 AM:

well then, I am really safe since I (alone) only made 5200.00 last year!

however, I can't complain, I choose to drop down from Supervisor (15,000.00) to a simple manager...a great difference in money but a better choice for my health...
along with leaving sooo much less BS from the higher uppers! "

karl the 2nd wrote on Jun 3, 2009 9:14 AM:

" Bone---are you my mom, seriously? My mom says the same thing about "God loves you, no matter what".

Once again, Bone, I did not get mislead, or misinformed. I have heard enough priests preach and sermonize to know that there is indeed a great deal of variety--and quality--between some priests and personalities. But they ALL spin the same script, and the same message.

But I was not "mislead" by some demagogue or charlatan. I came to realize the faulty premise of Christianity much later in life, when I got over the fear of questioning the whole premise that "God" even exists. From your responses, I can see that you can't even imagine a world without "God". I completely rejected the idea that I was a "sinner" needing to be "saved"--and especially on the word of such despicable people as the popes and bishops of the Church. Or I could have gone Evangelical and become my own private nut, with no central authority, only my own, conveniently made-up "relationship with God" based upon my own prejudices and needs.

Then I realized that you didn't need "God" to be a good person with morals and ethics. I already had my parents as role models. "

cm wrote on Jun 3, 2009 9:03 AM:

" I had to laugh last night, as the 10pm news came on....
at noon news Triple A said gas will go down after this spike and spiking for about 3 wks..
at 10pm ...they say gas will continue you rise all summer long!

also...this time last yr gas was 147.00 per barrel as it rose to 4.00 a gallon.
Yesterday gas was 68.00 a barrel yet the pump prices are rising??!! "

cm wrote on Jun 3, 2009 9:00 AM:

" karl, I agree I probably would be the "damned" person in many of the Fundangelical circles"

however BONE is right too..just as St.Mary's differed so extremely from St.Francis well over 30 yrs ago, many churches have changed.

I think people that claim to be 'saved' either have a trauma that has affected them, added with what they deem a miracle following.
OR they are simply mentally weak, as to most in so called cults.

we all hear with different ears, our minds accept what we want it to accept..

personally, I believe I/we are all living in hell (life on earth), and when your at the bottom there is only one way to go...UP! "

The Bone wrote on Jun 3, 2009 8:24 AM:

" Daydreamer also Karl dosen't believe in ANY god. Not just Christianity all religions.Please know your facts..... "

The Bone wrote on Jun 3, 2009 8:21 AM:

" daydreamer: What did I turn around? I agreed with CM and Karl to a point. Well writen yes. His opinion yes. Your comment wrong! Its up to the person what they want to believe in and that is mine.So what is your point!!! "

movedsouth wrote on Jun 3, 2009 8:15 AM:

" karl, doesn't my post fit YOUR criteria for an opinion column?


"Thanks for adding some depth to the argument, movedsouth, LOL!

What the hell does that have to do with ANYTHING?!?! "

karl, not everything has to be about an argument, get over yourself. Trying to take attention away from your bigot statement? "

daydreamer wrote on Jun 3, 2009 8:01 AM:

" I would suggest that the bones last comment is a perfect example of how a religious person will turn around a well written opposite view to conform to his way of thinking. Karl made it very clear that there was no "cataclysmic catastrophe" that turned him away from Christianity. "

daydreamer wrote on Jun 3, 2009 7:43 AM:

" The only positive thing about our booming world population, and the explosion of new technology's, is that society will shift from a spiritual age, and enter into an intellectual age. "

The Bone wrote on Jun 3, 2009 7:43 AM:

" When I was a kid you believe in what your Priest told you and you didn't question it!!Back then you were told that God kept a book on you and dont get Him made or else. Its different now. The Church preaches a Loving God that feels hurt,when His children does something wrong. Karl if you read some of the writings in Holy Family bullentins you will see how different it is. Me. I am PROUD to be a CATHOLIC,and I wouldn't have it any other way. I am sorry that you got misinformed or mislead back then was tough.Just remember God loves you no matter what!!!!! "

movedsouth wrote on Jun 3, 2009 6:44 AM:

" cm, don't worry, as long as we make less than $150,000/ year, we will not pay one dime in new taxes. I hope I can afford it. "

Farmer's Gal wrote on Jun 3, 2009 4:45 AM:

" Red Wings fan since childhood, but I let my mom follow hockey -- I mostly just follow the NY Football Giants. But if I do watch hockey, it's the Red Wings.

I know I have heard God Bless America sung occasionally at sporting events, but not frequently, and not recently at all.

I learned my Pledge of Allegiance without "under God," which suits me just fine, and I always finish a line before everyone else.

Someone at one of the gas stations around here told me that 11 AM is the normal price change time. I think it was someone at the gas station in Union Springs -- the one that burnt down a few years ago. I try to get my gas in the morning unless I am expecting prices to be going down, which they aren't lately. I don't like the big jumps either, esp accompanied by radio news bits telling how there is no supply shortage right now, it's just playing games. But still -- $2.65 or whatever is a lot better than the $4.50 we were paying last year.

When the prices first started shooting up, I'm thinking it was around 2003, I remember hearing the results of a survey which said people were accepting until the price went over $2.50. It's funny, but even after the outrageously high prices last year, it still feels like it's OK until it goes over $2.50 -- then I start feeling a little nudgy and uncomfortable about the price. Glad I was able to tank up at Byrne Dairy the other day for $2.49 "

karl the 2nd wrote on Jun 3, 2009 1:40 AM:

" cm, I understand what you're saying, but you're really just a "cafeteria Christian"--taking a little of this, a little of that--you'd be considered little more than a "damned" person in many of the Fundangelical circles.

The fact is, if you follow the Christianity, Judaism, or Islam, you have to believe that human beings are damned to hell unless they are saved by the grace of whatever deity that sect worships. There is no way to argue that. It simply is the underlying tenet of each of those religions. You need to be "saved".

The truth is, the coercion wouldn't work without those allegations. The fear of hell and damnation is what keeps people enslaved. You may have your own interpretation of it, but that is one of the founding tenets of Christianity--"Jesus died for your sins"--RIGHT?!

Sorry, he didn't die for me or mine. I got no use for mythical suicidal fanatics trying to give me a guilt complex. But there's the hook--there's the entire premise of Christianity, is it not? "

karl the 2nd wrote on Jun 3, 2009 1:34 AM:

" excnyer--"OMG Karl, what Catholic school did YOU go to? I had 9 years in Catholic elementary/high school and never heard the crap that you wrote!"

Then you weren't paying attention, were you? "

karl the 2nd wrote on Jun 3, 2009 1:33 AM:

" movdsouth---"MSNBC poll on whether or not to remove "In God We Trust" from US currency. 88% of almost 15 MILLION people said NO."

HA HA HAHA HA AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!

LMFAO!!!

Thanks for adding some depth to the argument, movedsouth, LOL!

What the hell does that have to do with ANYTHING?!?! "

cm wrote on Jun 2, 2009 9:37 PM:

" breaking news:
WASHINGTON - President Barack Obama is leaving the door open to taxing health care benefits, something he campaigned hard against while running for president, according to senators who met with him today.

anyone surprised? I'm not..once a duck always a duck. "

daviddelker wrote on Jun 2, 2009 9:17 PM:

" Rangle makes a comment about the police shooting in NYC----"Obama better be careful when visiting Harlem"----Where is Sharpton, and Jackson--where is their parade, and rhetoric on the radio? I guess its ok for a black guy to make comments like his. I have heard that some black leaders are calling the white cop that killed the black cop "racist." He did not know that the plain clothed cop chasing another black guy was a cop--so he was actually trying to save a black man from another black guy. If he were truly racist, he would have let it play out, and let the black guys kill each other. "

cm wrote on Jun 2, 2009 9:05 PM:

" movedsouth: this gas rising is beyond normal holiday/summer prices from the past!
I went by one station (7-11) that went up 7 cents in 10 minutes in the middle of the day!!

Triple A says it will drop in a couple of weeks, but I doubt that!
most places here are 2.49. "

cm wrote on Jun 2, 2009 9:00 PM:

" karl: I am not saying that part of what you said isn't true...again its the messenger=aka what church you attend.

I felt some of what you spoke about when I was attending St. Francis, under Father Nacca...certain people weren't 'allowed to be catholic' is how heard some versions to be, yet in another breath love all and be kind to all.
God is everywhere and sees all..well I ask, 'why do I have to go to confession,
he already knows what I did and saying 10 hail Mary's won't make it right.'

I don't blame Father for what he said--maybe it was how he said it..he meant well, but in my mind..some issues he spoke of didn't set well under my skin.

However, when I changed to St.Mary's under Father Enright--I related to more of HIS ways, agreed with more of HIS ideals..
alot more lax than St. Francis, Father Enright was: if someone is poor and doesn't have shoes, who cares if they come to church barefoot..and shame on those for criticizing that person.

Both priests were good men..but they had very different ways of teaching.

It doesn't mean as I grew older I was blinded or conformed 100% to ALL rules.
some I have very strong 'anti' issues that will never change. I have gone 'many rounds' with family members over them!

I believe we are to learn something from every person we are in contact with, from the moment we say hello, we may not know it then, but there is a reason we met.
Like everything in our lives, the good and the bad, it's a lesson learned..take with you what you like and disregard what you don't need or want.

Religion (any/all) basics, are to love, have peace, and aid those in need.
BUT that's really a dream, not the real world..
we are human and we don't love everyone, and at times war is needed, and aiding is great unless it's being abused by the needier one!

Then in the real world 'It Happens' (Sugarland song-lol)...and as humans we do our best to deal with it and continue on, which means SOMEONE may not be happy with how we choose to deal with it or how we continued on..
and of course in this real world we can't make everyone happy-- everyday!

I don't go to church here but I also haven't found 'the one' that makes me feel comfy in the pew..BUT I also know in my heart/mind it's not mandatory or I will go to hell..

my 'anti' issues doesn't stop me from aiding at the church when I want to, or attending an occasional mass when I want to.

Religion itself, isn't bad, it's the message and how it is delivered, and whom it's delivered to! "

movedsouth wrote on Jun 2, 2009 8:32 PM:

" MSNBC poll on whether or not to remove "In God We Trust" from US currency. 88% of almost 15 MILLION people said NO. "

movedsouth wrote on Jun 2, 2009 6:56 PM:

" Gas has gone up 10 cents/gal in 24 hours. Brace yourself, it's not going to get better soon. These speculators should be SHOT. "

excnyer wrote on Jun 2, 2009 5:56 PM:

" OMG Karl, what Catholic school did YOU go to? I had 9 years in Catholic elementary/high school and never heard the crap that you wrote! "

genegirl59 wrote on Jun 2, 2009 4:29 PM:

" Okaaaaay. Let me see if I have this right. It is acceptable to trash any group of people as long as you put in the disclaimer that, of course, you don't think they are ALL like that. Does that mean that if they are enough like you, they are okay? Hmmmm....sounds like something out of the 1950s dark ages. "

movedsouth wrote on Jun 2, 2009 3:58 PM:

" Sorry karl, but I took this as being a bigot. People can believe in a religion without believing in all aspects.

"Problem is, the cure is worse than the "sick". If you're a believing, practicing religionist, you HAVE TO be a bigot." "

karl the 2nd wrote on Jun 2, 2009 2:56 PM:

" movedsouth, I do not call ALL practicing people "bigots". I call the ones who just blithely accept the intrinsic bigotry of the Scriptures as immutable and divinely-mandated, and as such, reflect those beliefs and embrace them. It's simply calling a spade a spade.

I will allow that maybe these who espouse these beliefs are not WILLFULLY bigoted, but you yourself provided the definition--"one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance".

Lastly, if this means that I am "bigoted" toward Bigots, then that's an appelation that I can live with, lol! "

FS II wrote on Jun 2, 2009 2:02 PM:

" FG, a little trivia, the Philadelpia Flyers (NHL) back in the late 60s and early 70s had Kate Smith at the Spectrum to sing God Bless American,the Flyers thought it brought them good luck. If you follow hockey, it didn't. "

movedsouth wrote on Jun 2, 2009 1:10 PM:

" karl, I cannot believe that you call people practicing their religion bigots. That's insane. People may believe in the core of their religion, but not all of it. THEY are not the bigots. "

karl the 2nd wrote on Jun 2, 2009 12:27 PM:

" cm--"Obviously the 'rules' were too tough for your rebel side..or perhaps simply parents that were overly devoted, which some are..."

Allow me to clear this up once and for all, cm--this is a common misconception.

Inevitably, when you tell a person that you've rejected Religion, the first question is, "What happened?!"--as if some great, cataclysmic catastrophe in one's life had made them so angry at "God" that they reject everything to do with Religion. It's as if a person is betrayed by a lover, and then breaks up with them---even though that lover actually does exist in reality, and still walks the Earth in spite of the rejection. This is the context in which the Religious frame the idea--that the Atheist "knows" that there is a "God", but that they reject him even as the "Know" that He exists. It never enters into their mind that an Atheist actually DOES NOT BELIEVE in the existence of "God"--such as I.

Or, the second misconception--as you have posited. That the Atheist merely found the strictures and "rules' of Religion to be inconvenient and restrictive to the basal nature, and that they decide to just cast them off like a too-warm coat. Some attribute it to a "rebellious nature" in response to overzealous parenting.

Neither is the case. I gave up Religion after studying it for over 8 years in my effort to CONFIRM the Christian religion. In order to DEFEND it! The more I learned about The Great Patriarchal Religions in general, the more I realized that they were, and ARE, essentially corrupt, evil, and inauthentic institutions.

Here's the core problem--Religion present a Great Lie. The lie that Humankind is, by its nature, corrupted, cursed, "damned". SO they convince you right off the bat that you're bad, you're "sick". And then just like any classic quack salesman, they open their dusty old coat and pull out the bottle of snake oil and say "But I've got THE CURE!"

Problem is, the cure is worse than the "sick". If you're a believing, practicing religionist, you HAVE TO be a bigot. You HAVE TO be prejudiced. You are taught to condescend and look down upon those not "Saved" by your chosen, xenophobic deity. You MUST foolow the prejudiced proscriptions of the Scriptures if you are "authentic" and "Scripturally correct"--just look at the letter to the editor today by that poor fool who thinks that there's NO ROOM WHATSOEVER for debate about how evil and damned Gay people are. She has been taught to hate and to discriminate and she probably doesn't even realize it. That's the "poison fruits" of Religion.

I TOTALLY reject the premise of Religion, and its "cure". I know that people are just people--some good, some bad, some crazy, some without blame, some very sick by nature of their experiences and upbringings. I don't comfort myself by the easy road of assuming that all one has to do is "let go; let God" in order to have everything work out fine. I don't comfort myself with hating people different than I just because Scripture tells me it's "OK". But I do, and I will continue to critique without mercy, those who push the false premises and lies of Religion, which seeks to debase and brainwash only to perpetuate it's continued existence. We would all be MUCH BETTER OFF without Religion.

Good parenting makes for good people. More often than not, Religion makes otherwise good people go very, very bad--while feeling just fine about it. "

cm wrote on Jun 2, 2009 12:18 PM:

" I agree with having good morals and values, and as 'best as you can' use them daily, along with teaching your kids the same.
No one is perfect with or without God in their lives.
My beliefs are based personal happenings all thru my life, along with 'alittle bit of something' I picked up from others as I grew up.

I have Faith that there is 'something' else because I don't believe I came from a monkey evolved! There is no scientific proof, all of it is assumption.
God is also an assumption, but in my life, the strangest of strange happens, which leans me towards something more than I, before and after my life on earth. "

cm wrote on Jun 2, 2009 12:06 PM:

" FG:I remember hearing it alot, and still do around here..
speaking of the National Anthem --I should be sure she knows word for word, that one too! lol

my daughter says they only say the 'Pledge' at school, atleast something still exists.

ps. this past week at school she's been a S.P.I.T. (safety patrol in training) "

cm wrote on Jun 2, 2009 11:56 AM:

" A quirky note:
today I have TWO sisters that are the same age but NOT twins!!!
HONEST!

my sis 'M' is 45 today born in '64 and my sis 'D' is 45 until June 6th, born in '63.
For FOUR days they are the same age! COOL HUH??
Happy Birthday sis! "

Farmer's Gal wrote on Jun 2, 2009 11:09 AM:

" They always sing the National Anthem at sporting events, but I don't think they always sing God Bless America -- I don't remember it being played at any of our football games, neither the pros nor when I watched in high school 25+ years ago. "

Farmer's Gal wrote on Jun 2, 2009 11:08 AM:

" My belief system includes right and wrong, and striving to do right rather than wrong, as well as striving to being decent to other people. Honesty and Forgiveness should be applied as much as possible, though there are times when, for example, it's better to hold your tongue when honesty would be cruel and achieve no positive end, or when forgiveness given to a chronic abuser just opens the door for that bad person to cause more pain and damage in your life -- there is a point beyond which to draw a line.

We are all human and fall short sometimes, but if your focus is to work towards these simple goals, it's a good start. Personally, I don't need a system or a book or a higher being or a threat of going to Hell or anything else to make it clear to me these are goals worth the effort.

I have no problem with these parts of the religions of other people's systems of belief, formal or informal. Sometimes the nitty-gritty or interpretations or add-ons are offensive. My philosophy is to live and let live so long as one person's beliefs don't cause trouble in someone else's.

That's the crux. There is no reason a person can't be a good Christian without interfering negatively in the lives of others, though there are some Christians who do, and who do so in the name of their religion, and hence sour the whole pot in the eyes of some folks. "

genegirl59 wrote on Jun 2, 2009 10:06 AM:

" Sometimes parents push too hard to instill their beliefs in their children. Often this has the oppposite effect of their intentions. The children find religion to be oppressive and rebel, sometimes to the point of being rabid against anyone who has any religious belief.

But here's a nice story: I knew a lady with that kind of upbringing who when asked why she didn't go to church replied "I don't need to go to church. I just think that people should be good to each other." And that is just how she lived her life. What a nice philosophy! "

cm wrote on Jun 2, 2009 9:58 AM:

" I realized on Memorial Day, I was slacking in my parental responsibilities!
yes, me! shame shame shame!

my daughter's girl scout troop was participating in the ceremonies, as they we seated facing a 3 time purple hearter, they DID NOT know the words to God Bless America YET they knew every word to God Bless the USA (a country song)---
how did a song-God Bless America, which is sung at every opening sporting event,etc. NOT BE KNOWN????

honestly I did not know, she did not know the words, until that moment..
the facts are, she is no longer taught at school 'what I was taught' and if I want my child to know and be able to sing such a proud song..it is my job to teach her!
this will be our summer project..I figure since she relates and loves country music (like mom) Martina Mcbride would be a great aid in the teaching!

God Bless America by Martina Mcbride:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJNqep77vBw&feature=related

http://www.geocities.com/god_bless_
america_lyrics/

God Bless the USA by Lee Greenwood:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q65KZIqay4E "

cm wrote on Jun 2, 2009 9:36 AM:

" karl: I understand about your childhood raising..we all bring some of that into our adult lives.
But I think alot of yours is simply negative overall. Obviously the 'rules' were too tough for your rebel side..or perhaps simply parents that were overly devoted, which some are..BUT NOT ALL.

NOT ALL Christians/Catholics believe 'everything' that is dished out in a Sunday sermon..
As I have stated before, I was raised Catholic but I don't agree with ALL of its practices, that doesn't mean I have to disregard the whole religion as a whole.
OR that I have to SLAM/hate it because of the issues I disagreed with.

the facts are: it's not the religion--as it IS the person delivering the message in his/her own ideals.
at which we all know everyone's ideals are SO DIFFERENT in comprehending. "

movedsouth wrote on Jun 2, 2009 7:34 AM:

" Bigot

: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices ; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance "

The Bone wrote on Jun 2, 2009 5:58 AM:

" Cm--I could not have said it better!!!! "

karl the 2nd wrote on Jun 2, 2009 12:29 AM:

" cm, I "harp on" the Christian religion so much because, #1 I used to be one, so I know quite a bit about it, and how hypocritical and fake it is; and 2nd, THEY are the ones you can blame for electing and re-electing Bush, supporting his policies, and sending this country down the drain.

Not ALL of them, of course, but their hypocritical leaders and talking heads, and Church leaders, especially.

"Racism" doesn't even come close to applying. There's no "racial" element in it.

Rest assured though, I think that any one of the three Great Patriarchal Religions--Islam, Christianity, and Judaism--are deceptive, misleading, and ignorant. Because there is no God, and these religions seek only to control and enslave people's minds and free will. "

CayCntyLifer wrote on Jun 1, 2009 10:33 PM:

" For me, it's not even the matter of the message being misconstrued... I value other people's opinions, but it's harder when the person comes across as uneducated. I prefer the "educated" opinion. "

ANGMOM3 wrote on Jun 1, 2009 8:19 PM:

" WOW! I am away for a few days and return to quite the discussion about people with disabilities. Interesting.

I agree that proper punctuation, spelling and spacing are essential when one is trying make a point. Otherwise, the message can be misconstrued.

I appreciate your words on my behalf Farmer's Gal. I do try, and wish to urge all others to do the same.

Happy almost summer to all. "

cm wrote on Jun 1, 2009 8:17 PM:

" Karl don't you think you dwell way too much on Christian/Catholic religion?

for the atheist, you claim to be, here on this site --you don't seem to harp on Muslim, Buddah, or any other 'GOD' believing people....
would that be a form of racism?
just curious. "

movedsouth wrote on Jun 1, 2009 7:37 PM:

" If I can't get a company car, I hope I get an employee discount. "

usdwht wrote on Jun 1, 2009 7:11 PM:

" I still believe in supporting an American based company. With the too many models that US automakers manufacture, I believe they are comparable to the foreign badges. The government cannot bail everyone out, some will fail. But then again, the government did a good job with the rail system. "

karl the 2nd wrote on Jun 1, 2009 6:42 PM:

" Bone, I'm not sure how I'm supposed to "get around that"?

Another story about a Christian extremist murdering a medical doctor?

I found this one rather interesting---

"WASHINGTON, DC – Unwed pregnant teens and twenty-somethings who attend or have graduated from private religious schools are more likely to obtain abortions than their peers from public schools, according to sociological research published in the June issue of the Journal of Health and Social Behavior."

By the way--I have NEVER SEEN a more partisan, boolship website! What a lot of radical right-wing hooey! "

Farmer's Gal wrote on Jun 1, 2009 6:36 PM:

" So that means, WE THE PEOPLE, own 60% of GM -- do we get to attend stockholder meetings and express our opinions on what they should do, given that it is OUR money holding those boneheads together? You would have thought they'd have been made to see their own hubris back in the early 80s when the industry first tanked, but no, HUBRIS EXTRAORDINAIRE kicked in and they kept right at it, wasteful, extravagant, not-responsive-to-the-market, overpaid business as usual and surprise, surprise -- now they are in bankruptcy and costing us even more.

If it weren't for the lives of so many people in Michigan and elsewhere who are utterly dependent on the domestic auto industry, including everyone in southeastern Michigan even though they do not work for an auto company, I'd say Let the stupid idiots go down the tubes!

Alas, that would be a bad thing overall. Let's HOPE they are finally forced to live within their means and produce a car worth buying! "

Farmer's Gal wrote on Jun 1, 2009 6:31 PM:

" As a native Detroiter, whose paternal grandfather built tractors for Ford and whose maternal grandfather worked at Saginaw Steering Gear after being a union organizer in the 40s and 50s when it was all about busting heads in the streets -- a Dodge has always been a cheap piece of cr*p.

You can't buy an American-made car because there is no such thing - they all have a large portion of components made abroad, or you have so-called foreign cars built in plants here. It's just a conceit and a way to fool people -- get it through your heads -- there is no such thing as an American car.

Might as well buy one which will actually last -- try a Toyota, a Honda, a VW or a Subaru. "

The Bone wrote on Jun 1, 2009 5:26 PM:

" Karl read this but you will find some way to get around it.
http://culturewarnotes.com/ "

movedsouth wrote on Jun 1, 2009 3:43 PM:

" Well put Gator. "

Gator wrote on Jun 1, 2009 3:25 PM:

" The lawsuit against the Air Force Academy was filed by one man and was dismissed and I did not read that he was an Atheist. There are fanatics in every nook and cranny regarding any topic you choose but I find it to be more close-minded when it's necessary to catagorize "all" Christian, Republicans, Democrats, Atheist, military, etc...... It doesn't give any credibility to the discussion. "

genegirl59 wrote on Jun 1, 2009 3:08 PM:

" Karl: Having spent 20+ years as part of a military family, I can assure you that there are no more whackos in the military than there are in any other walk of life. By saying that the military is "filled" with wackos is just untrue. Your saying our military are "carrying the cross to Muslim lands" is just plain silly.

I can't argue with you about the US Air Force in Colorado, since I don't know anything about that. But, as a graduate of the University of Hawaii, I can tell you that if you walked on that campus at any given time, you would swear that the whole student body are far-right Christian wackos when actually they are a very small minority. They are just loud, obnoxious and in-your-face.

And, finally, don't call my Patriotism false. I assure it's not. Don't make me come up there to Auburn and kick your *ss. LOL "

karl the 2nd wrote on Jun 1, 2009 2:22 PM:

" genegirl, no sacred cows here; deal with the truth--the military is indeed filled with some hardcore Christian whacko's who joined George Bush's stated "crusade" in order to carry the cross to Muslim lands.

The US Air Force's school in Colorado is well-known to have been a hotbed of Evangelical proselytizing and recruitment, even to the point of harassing Jewish and Atheist members --to the point of lawsuits being filed.

Until we can get over this false "Patriotism" and talk about it, we can't change what you will not acknowledge. "

cm wrote on Jun 1, 2009 1:54 PM:

" karl the 2nd wrote on Jun 1, 2009 2:45 AM: "See Jane, who wants a real man who understands periods, leave Dick for Bob."

LMAO.... "

cm wrote on Jun 1, 2009 1:53 PM:

" Today is just another day...well not really..in Florida it's the start of hurricane season...
Just in case I shall buy a case of bottled water and some can goods..just kidding...I take it seriously.

FOR those that come to visit, normally staying near the beaches, that is where a hurricane HITS FIRST!
While you are looking up what fun things there are to do, be sure to look up emergency information!!!

where is the nearest shelter to my locale?
do they take pets?
what major highway to I need to use, to leave by car?

plan for power outages:
most don't..but carry SOME cash--ATMs do not work when the power is out!
always keep your cell phone charged or carry an extra charged battery.

there are many websites to find out information--make this a priority BEFORE you leave for your trip!

PS..many cruises are also very cheap right now--the season---know what you might get into before you sign on the line! "

cm wrote on Jun 1, 2009 1:41 PM:

" movedsouth wrote on Jun 1, 2009 11:41 AM:

I was just saying this morning how WE tax payers SHOULD get a stock certificate--even if it's only a 1/2 percent!
How will 'they' BE THERE for US when they make money??? "

genegirl59 wrote on Jun 1, 2009 1:38 PM:

" My 2 cars before this one were both Saturns. Maybe that old Willie Nelson song is correct where he sings "Nothin' lasts forever but old Fords and natural stone". :-) "

movedsouth wrote on Jun 1, 2009 1:07 PM:

" The new GM will be more transparent, seems like I've heard that before. Government Motors being transparent. LOL "

movedsouth wrote on Jun 1, 2009 12:56 PM:

" genegirl59, I agree 100%, I said the same thing at the start of this. I've always been a GM person, I think about 17 of them. GOOD FOR FORD!!!!!!! "

genegirl59 wrote on Jun 1, 2009 12:32 PM:

" As of today, our Federal government is in the car-manufacturing business; however, we are told that they do not want that job. I own a Dodge Magnum. I try to buy American if possible. I do not expect to be in the market for a new car soon, but when I am, if the government has not gotten out of the car business the only choice I have, in my mind, is a Ford. They, apparently, know how to run their business, and it stands to reason that they probably know how to build their cars. "

The Bone wrote on Jun 1, 2009 12:28 PM:

" Daydreamer--"It is however, common knowledge, that censorship & torture was, and still is, used by "Christians" today."
So let me get this right. If Jewish people torture people, so that means all Jewish people are bad. So it can be said that all Italians are in the Mafia.
WRONG each person is responsible for their own actions.So when certain people call other people names --LOOK IN THE MIRROR and think about what you said..But I still love you guys!!!!!!! "

movedsouth wrote on Jun 1, 2009 11:41 AM:

" If I'm going to be a part owner of GM, I want to put in my request for a company car. I want one of those Escalades before he gives them all away. "

genegirl59 wrote on Jun 1, 2009 9:46 AM:

" Karl the 2: I find your bashing of our Armed Forces as supporters of torture offensive. Shame on you. "

Farmer's Gal wrote on Jun 1, 2009 9:24 AM:

" Sounds like daydreamer is another good example -- never even mentioned a health condition at all before. "

movedsouth wrote on Jun 1, 2009 9:10 AM:

" 091951, I could possibly see how you could miss my point of my 6:43 P.M post, but I thought I cleared that up in my 7:31 A.M post. IF I ever do it again, I will make a better effort to state it so you will get my point. "

091951 wrote on Jun 1, 2009 8:40 AM:

" Perhaps FSII and MS should give online grammar, punctuation and creative writting lessons. "

daydreamer wrote on Jun 1, 2009 7:39 AM:

" Thank you Karl For allowing me to use your PFHHHHT comment. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rove, all claim to be devout Christians. All four names are Republicans, and were heavily involved in the practice of authorizing censorship & torture. "

Farmer's Gal wrote on Jun 1, 2009 7:35 AM:

" ANGMOM is a shining example of the positive and productive attitude which is possible for people with disabilities. ANGMOM is losing her sight. When she first appeared on Two Cents, people thought she was being rude, shouting, because she wrote in all caps. She patiently explained that it was because she was losing her sight and hadn't known that all caps meant shouting online. Someone (or two) suggested she just try increasing the size of the font on her display -- which she did, and everyone was happy.

ANGMOM does not let her disability stand in the way of her being able to communicate and she doesn't use it for an excuse.

Sometimes I agree with her, sometimes I don't, but I will say this for ANGMOM -- she is always kind and respectful of others, and no matter that she is faced with going blind, she also always shows a positive attitude towards life.

Hence -- having a disability is no excuse for a bad attitude and a negative outlook on life. "

movedsouth wrote on Jun 1, 2009 7:31 AM:

" I think someone missed the humor of 091951. "

daydreamer wrote on Jun 1, 2009 7:26 AM:

" My nervous system is shutting down, and I live with widespread chronic burning pain everyday. I am still ambulant, but my atrophy is progressing. I have carpal tunell and other blah, blah, stuff. There is no cure for my condition, but I do own a dictionary. I received a G.E.D. in '85. I cannot think of any reason why "sick-of-it", or whatever, cannot catch the grasp of proper grammer. "

karl the 2nd wrote on Jun 1, 2009 3:00 AM:

" Bone, "good Christians" like the Baptists at many southern Universities regularly censor all types of media, from TV< to radio, to books and papers.

I also have first-hand proof of censorship from Christian publishers. I used to subscribe to "Christianity Today"--just to keep an eye on the enemy--and I responded to a ridiculous editorial they had about how Atheism was "in its dying throes"--PLAINLY an easily-disprovable contention, as evidenced by the latest studies. I composed a respectful but hard-hitting response, which THREE TIMES was responded to by the editor, asking for more citations, more references, more quotes, ad nauseum--just stall tactics. I even called her on the phone, and spoke to her about why she had problems with my well-composed, heavily-cited rebuttal--and she just said "Well, we didn't feel that your letter was 'relevant'"!

WHAAAA?!?! It was a DIRECT rebuttal, point-by-point, of their silly initial contention.

The whole episode just SCREAMED "CENSORSHIP!!!"!!! You know how dangerous a truth-spewing wolf can be amongst the flock?!

Likewise, the armed forces are filled with many Fundamentalist Evangelicals--the "Fundangelicals"---who were among the most avid supporters of Torture. Additionally, most supporters of Torture are indeed the extreme Right-wing, which include the various Fundangelical sects. Oh, and don't forget all the nasty Torture during "la Inquisition"?! Please educate yourself on this issue before you make a fool of yourself again with your blind, reflexive defense of the WORST aspects of Christianity throughout History!

And anyway, just listening to people like James Dobson, or any of the various "End TImes" loonies out there like La Haye or Kemp is definitely "Torture" "

karl the 2nd wrote on Jun 1, 2009 2:46 AM:

" Scouty, hopefully your electricity and internet will be getting cut off again. "

karl the 2nd wrote on Jun 1, 2009 2:45 AM:

" auburn-no-class --apparently you DID skip many more classes than just Punctuation and Grammar--it took me three minutes to read your last post, so out of breath was I from trying to do it in one sitting.

Ah yes---falling on the ol' threadbare "I have a DISABILITY!" whiny attempt to excuse your pathetic grasp of Grammar, eh?
The only disability YOU have, my punctuationally-challenged friend is, is the ability to form coherent, well-composed sentences as a Master of Grammer such as I.

Revel in the perfection of my elegant and correct prose. Envy my loquacious eloquence.

When;s the last time YOU used two words back-to-back that included "q's" in the middle of BOTH words?! 25 BIG points for me! No need to bow!

Here's a challenge for you--

"See Dick"
"See Dick texting"
See Dick, who cannot use punctuation correctly, unable to properly fill out a job application at McDonald's"
"See Dick in the soup line"
"See Jane, who wants a real man who understands periods, leave Dick for Bob.

TYPE IT A HUNDRED TIMES. "

FS II wrote on May 31, 2009 9:57 PM:

" 091951,sick of it and auburn no class, either you three are truly uneducated, or really don't care how you project yourselves in your written comments. Icann't believe you three are disabled or using the word diability because of you very poor grammer, spelling and puncuations, with all the programs availabe to you three , you would think you would want to better youselves and improve your self imagines. Your written comments on this site and how you write them, leave other persons on this site truly amazed at how you three project yourselves. If you decide not to better youselves, then don't blame the others for there snide, nasty or unbelieving comments or saying WHAT? WHAT? WHAT? because you three donot make you selves clear. But you three could be just B.S. the rest of us. "

Unknown... wrote on May 31, 2009 7:42 PM:

" Auburn~No~Class:
(...or perhaps Sick Of It) Maybe it would work better if you came in here & were to talk nice to people, instead of going off on everything & everybody in here. "

scouty wrote on May 31, 2009 7:36 PM:

" hopefully karl will be going on tour soon "

movedsouth wrote on May 31, 2009 6:43 PM:

" 091951, Just above where you read the latest post, they have the proper spelling of Citizen, you misspelled it. "

091951 wrote on May 31, 2009 4:10 PM:

" i agre Karl. Purheps tha Citeezin shood schreen Two Cints cumants four corect punkuashun and gram craker useage. "

The Bone wrote on May 31, 2009 3:49 PM:

" daydreamer wrote on May 31, 2009 7:57 AM:

" Dear Bone, this is my butt talking, PFHHHHHHHHHT. What a wonderful comment from a Christian. Would Jesus sling insults like that? "
No he wouldn't. I shouldn't either. But that is alot better than the way people talk on two cents. "

The Bone wrote on May 31, 2009 2:18 PM:

" Karl and Daydreamer again you guys are talking out of your butt about that censorship & torture was, and still is, used by "Christians" today." When it comes to Republicans and Christ you are blind. "

genegirl59 wrote on May 31, 2009 1:45 PM:

" Karl the 2d: When you "sprain" your eyes, do you wrap them in ace bandages or put them in casts? LOL "

Farmer's Gal wrote on May 31, 2009 12:38 PM:

" I think sickofit has changed online names -- I still can't make out half of what the person is writing. Either that, or we have two posters suffering the same affliction and with the same attitude about not wanting to bother to overcome as much of that affliction as possible.

I accept there are conditions which would make spelling and so forth difficult, and have sympathy for persons with that problem -- BUT the only condition which prevents a person from stopping to carefully re-read and check for mistakes before posting, (especially when one knows s/he has a handicap in that area), is laziness and an attitude unwilling to even try. Personally, I fight the ways my health condition debilitates me -- I still have troubles, but I never stop trying to overcome as much as I can.

In other words, if you know you have a disability, find ways to adapt and accommodate, but don't go down without a fight. Accept only as much as you must, and fight the rest, tooth and nail. You'll have more respect for yourself, and so will others, so even when you do make mistakes, no one can bust on you for not even trying.

Anyone who was here a month or two ago when we discussed this general issue before will remember that I personally encouraged people with different POVs to post their views and to engage in discussion, but to try to do so in a manner which others can understand and to do so respectfully. I do chime in periodically on the subject of sniping and name-calling as well.

I have a self-admitted issue with bad grammar and spelling when they are so bad that the meaning is unclear and the person has lost the ability to communicate his or her thoughts with others. That is a sad thing, and definitely a handicap. It would be a frustrating and miserable life to lose the ability to communicate, and well worth the effort to try harder. "

auburn~no~class wrote on May 31, 2009 12:24 PM:

" o yes you do and karl stick where the sun don`t shine if you people don`t like what`s said in here or how we type it you sit there and tell us what we should do well i tell ya all right now ill type the way i want to in here !@#$%^&*()_+ so take the b.s you give us and find a chatroom cause that`s where all the crap go`s that you all talk its called we don`t give s**t room o wait you might not understand that ether so ya just might want to go back to school to be able to read someones typeing with a disability cause you all are to smart to read anything below your level i do so pity you lmao NOT "

karl the 2nd wrote on May 31, 2009 11:26 AM:

" auburn-no-class --- did you skip the Punctuation class?

Can you please include some punctuation so I don't sprain my eyes trying to read your post?

Thank you. "

cm wrote on May 31, 2009 9:32 AM:

" all this 'blah blah' about Obama & wife going 'out to a dinner & a show' during this recession...do we really need to care?

I saw some of Suzie Orman on Oprah the other day...she had her top 3 rules, the 3rd was don't eat out at any restaurant for a month.
Yes, that would save money, but it also closes more businesses (restaurants).

setting rules for yourself is great if you are unwise at spending your funds.
Rule 3 should have been after you do #1 & 2, AND your bills are paid-- IF you have enough left over EAT OUT once or twice.
use coupons, if you have kids find the 'kids eat free places.'

there are many more depression cases...those are mostly caused by sheer jealousy...Obama went to dinner? Ms. Jolie spent 5 grand on a purse?
the key is: YOU have 'something' in your life to be proud of--focus on that!!
let yourself splurge on something that is meaningful to YOU!

we've heard FG redoing a bedroom, I painted my living room..I know I look at mine daily and feel so proud and it was only 2 gallons of paint!

My daughter and I filled some of our boredom time making 'cat socks' and cage blankets for the local animal shelter. the cost was 1.00 for catnip.
I had left over material and batting from previous craft projects.
Old socks stuffed with batting, and some catnip inside them make for hours of fun for any cat!
(karl an idea for catching your strays-lol)

Let's make rule #3 to be more appreciative of what we do have, and less caring about what the rich have!! "

movedsouth wrote on May 31, 2009 9:22 AM:

" Sorry auburn, but we do not criticize people for their little problems. We express our opinions and debate and sometimes criticize their opinions, not their little problems.There is a difference. "to leave", I don't think I've ever seen anyone request anyone "to leave". "own the paper", get real. "

daydreamer wrote on May 31, 2009 7:57 AM:

" Dear Bone, this is my butt talking, PFHHHHHHHHHT. What a wonderful comment from a Christian. Would Jesus sling insults like that? "

daydreamer wrote on May 31, 2009 7:52 AM:

" Let's see, thousands of innocent civilians from Iraq & Afganistan have been killed by what the U.S. calls collateral damage, which translates into a group of people that blow's up as many as they can. "

daydreamer wrote on May 31, 2009 7:43 AM:

" Let's see, thousands of innocent Iragi's & Afgani's have been killed by what the U.S. calls collateral damage, yes I would say that is just as bad as suicide bombers. "

auburn~no~class wrote on May 30, 2009 11:51 PM:

" o please movedsouth you and karl the 2nd and some times farmer`s gal criticize everyone in here for there little problems they have but ones someone go`s after one of you then you all go nuts and tell them if they don`t like it to leave like you own the paper yes we all have a right to are own opinion but you 3 have to stop judgeing other people its just not right you all should be a shamed of your self`s "

karl the 2nd wrote on May 30, 2009 9:21 PM:

" Daydreamer--"It is however, common knowledge, that censorship & torture was, and still is, used by "Christians" today."

THIS IS ABSOLUTELY TRUE.

Bone, how can you possibly contest this?

And don't even start about "Jesus" being a real historical figure! "

movedsouth wrote on May 30, 2009 5:26 PM:

" I guess I left out the biggie, things have been better. Keep up the good work. "

movedsouth wrote on May 30, 2009 5:23 PM:

" I think it's only right to explain the reason for me coming back to this forum. The best way to explain is the old he said she said. When going thru a divorce, there's he said, she said, and really what happened. I have to express my opinion whether people like it or not. We all have opinions, and should not be criticized for that. People that express their opinion should be challenged, not slammed. "

The Bone wrote on May 30, 2009 5:21 PM:

" Daydreamer--your talking out of your butt!!!!!!!!! "

The Bone wrote on May 30, 2009 5:20 PM:

" For the person who wrote Auburn teachers start at $49,000 a year with a masters degree and a few teachers make $85,000 a year. They work 185 days a year and how about their pensions --- a good majority retire at age 55.
What is your point. If you think that they get paid to much---you teach them and you will see that is one of the hardest jobs around. Am I a teacher no!!! But I know plenty!!!!!!!!!! "

movedsouth wrote on May 30, 2009 2:54 PM:

" Maybe Christians practice censorship and torture, but is that as bad or worse than the group that straps bombs onto themselves and blows up as many people as they can? "

daydreamer wrote on May 30, 2009 8:13 AM:

" One could never say if jesus practiced censorship & torture since nothing in the bible was directly written by him. It is however, common knowledge, that censorship & torture was, and still is, used by "Christians" today. "

auburn~no~class wrote on May 30, 2009 2:07 AM:

" lmao my step dad has a family member that works at one of the schools hes been in the paper for getting things past for the schools right along with others i say if they still need money this bad were going down fast. if this makes the paper ill be shocked!!!!. "

cm wrote on May 29, 2009 11:31 PM:

" in the poll of Obama as fav leader:

were the choices something like:
a. Adolf Hitler
b. Josef Stalin
c. Kim Il Sung
d. Saddam
e. Osama bin laden
f. Barrack Obama

I am confident Obama couldn't top Oprah on her worst day! "

cm wrote on May 29, 2009 10:41 PM:

" There is no way I could put up with half the bratty kids at school on a daily basis..adding in middle school and high school it's plain out NOT safe!

I honestly don't know how the inner city teachers stay sane!

everyone has the opportunity to make whatever wages they feel they need, or work somewhere they enjoy..what's the point of constantly slamming the teachers for what YOU think they make?
If you are jealous --GO back to school--and become a teacher! "

jeanne541 wrote on May 29, 2009 3:10 PM:

" I am a retired Custodian of the Auburn N.Y. school district and know from first hand knowledge that 99% of retired teachers,Deserve what ever retirement monies and benies they get!!!! "

excnyer wrote on May 29, 2009 3:04 PM:

" Life is full of choices. If one wants to be a teacher, that is their choice. I, myself, had no desire to teach and that is why I chose office work. Some people have a calling to their profession and do a very good job. Others are in it only for the money/benefits. "

Farmer's Gal wrote on May 29, 2009 1:05 PM:

" No, me, on the other hand, I did the whole educational thing to get certified to teach, and when I did my student teaching, I decided it was not for me. I still got all my paperwork, but then I never taught high school again. I have a lot of respect for those who do it well -- it's not an easy job. "

movedsouth wrote on May 29, 2009 12:53 PM:

" unknown, that's why hindsight is 20/20. "

mamimbe wrote on May 29, 2009 12:51 PM:

" Auburn~No~Class............ They bill the property owner. "

Unknown... wrote on May 29, 2009 12:12 PM:

" If I had it to do over again, I would become a teacher in a heartbeat!!! "

auburn~no~class wrote on May 29, 2009 11:42 AM:

" i take it now were paying the city to mow people`s yard`s i seen one this morning on fort st at a little after 9 this morning is are tax money paying for that to. "

movedsouth wrote on May 29, 2009 11:16 AM:

" teacher1, the point is that someone chose a different career path and now feels they should have chosen teaching. "

Farmer's Gal wrote on May 29, 2009 11:04 AM:

" Not to mention, of course, that teachers also often work a lot longer days than 8 hours -- with preparing lesson plans, grading papers, and extras like field trips or attending sporting and drama and music events to show support of their students.

People who don't teach always think the grass is greener on the other side, but they should have to walk a mile in a teacher's shoes. "

teacher1 wrote on May 29, 2009 10:48 AM:

" computer went a little haywire....finishing my thought--teachers can't afford to retire at 55 anymore. I will continue to say what I say every single time someone starts to bash teachers on here--walk a day or a week in our shoes. Then see if you re-evaluate your opinion. "

teacher1 wrote on May 29, 2009 10:46 AM:

" And the point of the comment about Auburn teacher was what???? Teachers may get paid for 185 days, but most teachers are working during the summer. I'm sure if you walked into any school in the summer you would find at least a handful of teachers there. And yes, teachers get a retirement, which we contribute too. I highly doubt we are the only profession to have a retirement system. I know for a fact law enforcement does. And how exactly do you know that most teachers retire at 55? Most of the teachers I know who are retiring this year or have retired recently were well past the age of 55. Some stay because they love what they do; others because they CAN'T AFFORD "

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