" one step--rrrreeeal insightful there, buddy--thanks for adding zilch to the conversation... "

" brew: think about that--taking away kids for bad choices--there would never be enough foster homes in the country for that one!

I would gather that the money coming in would pay for the house, or atleast get it up to date so foreclosure didnt happen.
I dont agree the kids should split up..especially the ones already at home.
BUT she does need help and will continue to need help.

errrggggg..temperature dropping to 39 tonight only 50 right now in sunny FL. "

" karl and farmer gal ur comments mean squat--- get a life and re--retire "

" For all my altruism, I would not be the one to take all 14 myself. I am THIS close to getting my last kid out the door and savoring MY time for myself, which has finally come after so many years of supporting so many others. I'm not looking to load on the burden all over again, though I may be stuck with the college age kid for a while. He's super bright, but socially not tuned in -- never had a job, doesn't have a drivers license, not a go-getter -- in times like these, with heads-of-household out of work, who's going to hire this green kid, no matter how sharp he is? I despair of it, because his debt will get dumped on me as co-signer of his loan (yet, once he was started, if I didn't co-sign, he wouldn't get the loans, wouldn't get to go to college, and would have even less chance of ever supporting himself or paying off his own debt).

So, not me.

But there are people out there who would. I have a co-worker who is one of 17 children, all single births to the same two parents.

BTW, I couldn't win the lottery because I don't gamble and have never bought a lottery ticket for myself in my life. But if I suddenly became an millionaire, and no one else stepped up, I might lay a one-time gift on for someone (carefully vetted to be sure they would do the job right, and from the heart) to keep the babies all together with their older siblings -- after I paid off all my debt, got my own kids squared away and fixed up my house just so. "

" No one can advocate rtaking children from a mother for making bad choices. As repugnant as I may find it to be, she may use her fame and the publics morbid curiousity to cash in with books, movie offers, reality TV or the gossip publications to make money and get by somehow along with government assistance. If she can do this she might survive. The social services dept should watch her closely and if she can't support the children then they should take action. But to punish her for what may happen is not right. And don't start on me about liberal views and welfare abuse. I think she is a poster child for what is wrong with public assistance but she will have to use it if she is to survive. If she is not mentally sick then she is likely short a few brain cells and these are the ones who need help and of course the innocent children. "

" Well, Gator, that's one thing I would agree with you on, and would love ot see as well,...but I don't think it will ever happen. I am starting to believe that being "Conservative" or "Liberal" is really, genuinely a genetic-type thing, just like "Type A" or "Type B" personalities. Risk takers or not, etc.
I wonder if there will ever be a true seeing-of-the-other-side? "

" Brew1234, I agree with you, the state can't take your children because a person is stupid,nor can they take them because somthing might happen. But I look at this, the woman is loosing her home, she has no job, her parents moved out,she has no male supporting her,even though he donated. I think you maybe a parent, maybe not, but wouldn't you make sure where your food is coming from for youself and your children, where your going to live, medical care, all the stuff needed clothes these children, dipers, wets and god know what else. My opinion is she won't be able to take proper care of 14 kids. One of the solutions would be for the state to take them for protective custody and the possibility of keeping them together. In todays age its as hard to raise 1 or 2 children much less 14 I can't imagine the cost for food,clothes, dipers,wets, pajamas,bootes, tshirts,medical care, everything a baby from birth to about 3 years old. I don't know how many people are helping her with the children, but if she has to handle the majority of the work, how long before she is stressed out? FG, I really believe if you could and had the power you would keep the 14 children together. Wouldn't be nice if you hit this weekend mega bucks. "

" kingstd--and please, tell us, in your apparently illuminated perspicacity, WHAT would have been the alternative?!

I watched extensive coverage all day of the California situation. If it wasn't for passing the budget, thousands of people would have been put out of work. Projects that were already in production would have been halted. That stoppage would have cost the state literally millions of dollars.

The NO Party had no reasonable alternative--as they never really do. They just stood for obstructionism. They are betting all their cards that everything the Dems try to do for America will fail--which if you think about it, means that they want AMERICA to FAIL. Because we're already well on our way to Third World status--thanks to the No Party anf their COnservative puppet masters.

Just like the rest of the negative naybobs, you've got no answers, only complaints. "

" Karl - in my daze of reality I would love to see the day that once a president is elected the rest of Congress would stop being Republican or Democrat and become one group that stands for all Americans. Yes I do know that I am living in a dream world but it sure would be nice. A good idea is a good idea period. "

" 20 years ago our children went to a summer camp with children which was subsidized for children from in a home for abused children. We became very attached to 2 young girls ages 5 and 7 who were sexually abused by the father. We asked to to foster them with the intention to adopt. Number one we were military and the system did not like they might move, second they had another couple who were willing to take the youngest but did not want the older girl, we fought for a year and lost in our attempt to take both. The real kicker was that the abusive parents refused to let these girls be legally adopted, therefore they would stay in the system until they were of legal age. As a military family we could have provided them with all of the therapy necessary to help them overcome the many years of abuse, not to mention the love and support they needed. Listen to a 5 year old tell you what their father did to them, no child should ever have to know these horrors. "

" Am *I* saying the State "should" take her kids? No, I am saying IF the State decides she is incapable of supporting her children, or she is found mentally incompetent or something, then the children should not be separated. "

" karl the 2nd wrote on Feb 19, 2009 11:08 AM:

" A NEW AMERICAN HERO--Arel Maldanado.

Remember this name. This is the ONE Republican in California who broke ranks with the No Party in California, whose BS obstructionist party tactics were threatening to shut down the State of California, and put thousands of working middle class people out of work.

Recognizing the personal political implications, Maldonado broke ranks and voted his conscience. He voted WITH the Democrats, and saved the Middle Class in California.

Three cheers for ONE Republican! "

Actually Karl three Republicans voted for the revised CA budget. The three Republican votes for the state budget came from Senator Abel Maldonado (R-Santa Maria), Senator Dave Cogdill (R-Modesto), and Senator Roy Ashburn (R-Bakersfield).

Another great day for Californians...state sales tax increased 1% (LA County rate now at 9.25%) and vehicle license fees nearly doubled. In order to get Maldonado's vote the Dems had to give up their proposed $.12 per gallon additional state gas tax fee. Yes Karl, thanks to the Dems and a few rogue Repubs another great day for the middle class. "

" Karl wrote Two--Homeless people "choose" to be homeless in the same way that you choose to be ignorant, bigoted, and stupid. If you can admit that, then I'll give ya the points on the homeless thing--got it, Queenie?---They do not.I helped to start the shelter here in Auburn,so I know what I am talking about.You are ignorant as most people who dont know about the homeless. But than again,I disagree with you about everthing anyway. "

" So you are saying the state should step in and take her kids even though she has done nothing illegal? You can't remove children because they may have problems in the future. You can't lose your children just because you are stupid. "

" fs is your middle name of "

" BTW, FS - I agree again -- the doctor should have to pay support for the whole lot. "

" With all the publicity, I'll bet someone would. There are people sending her money, alongside the ones sending death threats -- someone would take them all. If it comes to that, just you wait and see. "

" FG, sorry about your aunt, I don't think there are many couples out there willing to adopt 2 or 3 children much less 14. I think its sad to say they probably will be split up someday, because I don't see their mother raising 14 kids, but do see a possible tragedy accuring here. I would love to see the state sue the doctor and make him support these kids. "

" I agree completely, FS, except I don't think the children should be punished by being split up -- certainly not the six who are older and used to being siblings.

I have an aunt who was an adopted child. She had an emotionally (and sometimes physically) abusive husband who, knowing she was adopted, told her all the time who she was unwanted, her mother had probably been a sl*t, etc etc. Many years later, when she was in her 40s and her elderly parents (who had been quite old when they adopted her) had passed away, one of her ex-in-laws saw an ad in the paper saying these 3 silbings were looking for their baby sister. Their mother had died, their father was a poor truck driver who couldn't take care of them and had put them all up for adoption. One family took the older siblings, while the baby went to some other family. My aunt got in touch -- and she was their long-lost baby sister -- she had a whole family who loved her like crazy and had spent years trying to find her. She had lost a childhood with brothers and sisters she could never have back, and had to face abuse she didn't deserve.

Now, lots of children are adopted and have wonderful lives, and lots of children AREN'T adopted and have miserable lives -- but if you can avoid breaking up the children, you should avoid it. As you say -- it's not their fault and they shouldn't suffer any more than can be helped. They were born into extraordinary circumstances and deserve to be allowed to stay together with their birth-mate siblings. "

" A NEW AMERICAN HERO--Arel Maldanado.

Remember this name. This is the ONE Republican in California who broke ranks with the No Party in California, whose BS obstructionist party tactics were threatening to shut down the State of California, and put thousands of working middle class people out of work.

Recognizing the personal political implications, Maldonado broke ranks and voted his conscience. He voted WITH the Democrats, and saved the Middle Class in California.

Three cheers for ONE Republican! "

" The mother of 14 kids did them no favor, she's a wack job and the State is going to carry the burden of these 14 kids. They are the ones who are going to suffer , she has no income, is about to lose her house, there will be no money and free gifts falling from the sky. My question is why can't the state or the courts step in and remove the children and place them up for adoption by couples who can afford to take care of them properly, and give them a loving home. The 14 didnot ask to be born under these circumstances. This is not somthing that happens every day, the state and courts should step in now, before somthing does happen to one of these children. "

" on a personal note, I want to say thru all this BS I am going thru with the EX
(soon to be)
you really do learn who your friends are!
I am so proud to have them in my life!
YES, I have told them too, along with many thanks!

Validate someone in your life today! "

" sorry, meant to say older kids SHOES in the box...
though at times I would have liked to place them in a box and ship them somewhere! lol...

Nature: I use facebook everyday, myspace I look at about once a month!
I agree facebook is more for adults.

on the OCTO-mom--I dont see how she could afford such medical procedures to begin with.??
in 1992ish, hubby wanted a baby, of his own, even under military medical, we had paid ALOT for artificial insemination, we did it 3 times, with no luck.
There was the costs for the daily shots to me/$25 per vile, the daily co-pays for daily dr.visits and daily co-pays for bloodwork, and the final co-pay inseminations were 500.00 each (THEN).

according to the news she did the inseminations of eggs already fertilized--even a higher cost!
depending on the doctor, anywhere from 5-10 grand per try!
there is no way the state would have funded 6 and now the 7th round!
there has to be something going on with the doctor. "

" thanks Gator for your post about Jack Nolan, I didnt know as I had not read the paper that day.
He was a very special man, like his brother. Icons of Auburn!
I had recently seen in a box, the older kids(27,24,21 yrs)--all bought from Jack, he fitted each child.

someday they will be bronzed, a treasure forever!
As well as the treasured mememories I have of Jack & Bob Nolan! "

" First she has 14 kids she can't afford now she could lose her home because she hasn't paid in almost a year.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,496169,00.html


LOS ANGELES — Octoplets mom Nadya Suleman and her 6 other children may soon be homeless.

Los Angeles County property records indicate the home they live in went into mortgage default on Feb. 9 after non-payment for 10 months. The home in Whittier is owned by Angela Suleman, the grandmother of the octuplets.

The default notice shows Angela Suleman is $23,225 behind in her mortgage payments and that the house could be sold at auction beginning May 5.

However, the mother of 14 may have more time to help with the repayments after the bank official said the sale could still be delayed by the discretion of her lender, IndyMac Federal Bank of Pasadena.

"We take these things one case at a time — there's no shortage of people struggling to make their mortgage payments right now," an Indymac representative said.

"Roughly more than 10 percent of our customers are 60 or more days behind."

Angela Suleman's phone has been disconnected and she could not be immediately reached for comment.
Related Stories

* Octuplets' Mom On Welfare, Spokesman Confirms
* Spokeswoman: Octuplets' Mom Wants to Tell 'Amazing' Story

Her daughter, Nadya, 33, jobless and receiving food stamps, drew international headlines and a torrent of public ridicule after giving birth January 26 to octuplets conceived through in vitro fertilization.

That criticism intensified when it was learned she already had six children, ages 2 to 7, that she was collecting disability checks for three of them, and that they all were living with the grandmother. "

" I can't see anything more or less moral about conceiving a child the natural way. I have an ex-sister-in-law who was getting to be older and had divorced her alcoholic husband who had had children from a previous marriage then had himself "fixed" -- and she really wanted a child. She had a good job and a support network of family, so she was well-placed to raise a child on her own. I never inquired about the details, but she found some guy to get her pregnant and she had a child, who is now 18 and doing very well. I can't see anything immoral in that at all. Sure, it would have been nicer if she had found the man of her dreams before she was too old to bear children, but it didn't work out that way -- I don't believe she has even dated a man since. But she conceived and has raised a child as nature intended, no wastefully expensive costs to all of us by charging in vitro to her insurance company. Those kind of bills cost everyone because they drive up the cost of insurance in general -- and personally I find that of questionable morality -- to get such treatments when you don't have a physical need.

I was thinking more along the lines of a woman who had been injured -- nothing wrong with her genetically, but unable to conceive -- that's an appropriate candidate for in vitro in my opinion. But it is just MY opinion. "

" OOps, sorry, Gator--that typo was a doozy! "

" Well said Gator, the Nolan family were and are great people. Jack and Bob ran nice stores. "

" I was saddened to read of Jack Nolan's passing. I went to school with both Jack and Bob's children at Sacred Heart and Auburn High. Chances are if you grew up in Auburn you owned at least one pair of shoes from Nolan's. He was a very generous man who truly loved Auburn and the people who live there. You don't find many like Jack and Bob Nolan. "

" FG - not all woman who cannot become pregnant have a genetic problem. I have a good friend who is an endocrinologist, the difference is she has morals. "

" Karl - I will presume you're misspelling of my screen name was a typo and not a childish gesture. What I found amazing is this mother of 14 stated the same doctor helped her conceive all 14 of her children. Am I missing something here? So he obviously knew her history yet he chose to continue. Amazing! "

" as always, elected officials hide
in the woodwork until Election
Year,then come out with their
"B-S" S "

" Elected officials are answerable to the public WHILE they are in office, not just when they are up for re-election. "

" I have no interest in knowing who is kissing who, who is doing what to who, the DPW situation is bing handled and that is the case. In simple words, make sure your nose is clean because ONLY YOU HAVE TO ANSWER FOR YOURSELF AND YOUR CONDUCT. THE CONDUCT OF THOSE INVOLVED IS BEING HANDLED THE WAY THEY FEEL FIT. YOU DO NOT LIKE IT---VOTE THE PARTIES OUT NEXT TIME. "

" TRANSPARENCY "President Obama issued a slew of executive orders and other official decisions without making any announcements to the press, Politico.com reports.

According to an article published Tuesday night, the president has since taking office issued three executive orders, one memorandum, one presidential notice and a proclamation without any attention from the White House press corps. That's because the White House press office never announced them and never posted any reference to them on its Web site.

A spokesman called the omission a "simple oversight," and said the information has since been posted to the WhiteHouse.gov site.

Some of the decisions were minor, such as a proclamation for American Heart Month. But others expanded the size of key bodies, including the National Economic Council and the Domestic Policy Council. Two others canceled orders relating to regulatory review from the Bush administration, according to the report.

Politico.com found the decisions in the Federal Register, the government's official policy record.

Click here to read the report in Politico.com. " "

" I thought I read the accepted norm was to implant TWO embryos, in case one doesn't take, and occasionally three if the mother has no other children.

It is absolutely kookie to think of frozen eggs -- not EVEN embryos -- as "children." I mean, every healthy female from menarche to the end of menopause is eliminating unused eggs from her body monthly -- it's not like we're flushing babies because we aren't constantly pregnant.

Lots of people have mental problems that don't show in a one-hour session with a court-appointed psychiatrist. But there is definitely something wrong with someone so obsessed that she can't bear the idea of "losing" 6 unfertilized eggs and some stored sperm. (Or however it works -- I preferred to stick to natural selection and have my babies the way nature intended, rather than pass on any inherited inability to bear children naturally, but that's just me) -- especially when you already have 6 children, 3 with special needs and no means of support for yourself or your children.

And why would anyone want to put themselves through a pregnancy with 6-8 babies at once when the risk of losing all of them -- babies AND mother -- is so high? That's not the sort of thing you do for kicks or just to get your picture on the news.

How different would this debate be if the babies all lived but the mother didn't? "

" movedsouth--so....I'm right, huh?

Is that all you can come back with, seriously? "

" sabrina, I disagree strongly with your reading of the Octumom as a "gold digger". I heard the whole "book/movie deal" allegation, but as far as I know, that was only to help pay the hundreds of thousands of dollars of medical bills she has now.

What very few people talked about--not surprising, knowing this damned country--but what was mentioned BY HER PERSONAL LAWYER on Dr Phil as some sort of ridiculous attempt at justifying this immoral, sick act--was that she is "AN EXTREMELY PIOUS AND RELIGIOUS WOMAN".
Her lawyer alleged that, she never intended to have 8 more babies, but that two embryo's divided further in the womb, and that all six were not expected to survive--they regularly implant up to six, because the implantation rate is not perfect--but in this case, all 6 "took".

SO this nutcase--in her religious stupidity--would not do the right thing and selectively terminate several embryos. )E-M-R-Y-O-S, people--don't call them "babies" yet, please!) and so she felt it was more "moral" to have eight more children that she couldn't possibly raise and support rather than being sensible and moral enough to live within her means.

See, that's the problem. We've gotten so hung up on promoting pregnancies and babies from embryos that we completely have left the conversation about QUALITY of Life. This wackjob of a religious nut didn;t do the TRULY "moral" thing--selectively aborting at least half the embryos. I guess it's more moral to steal taxpayer's money and to allow some of those babies to be developmentally challenged because of the nature of that pregnancy than it would be to have done the right thing? You DO KNOW that at least some of these kids are almost guaranteed to be mentally re.tarded? Her body would not have been able to adequately nourish and carry eight children and allow them all to get proper nourishment and space to develop properly.

Even if what you allege was true--that this woman was after money of fame--jesus!!--any woman who would saddle herself with a dangerous pregnancy and EIGHT CHILDREN just for some dubious shot at "fame" IS, by definition, MENTALLY ILL!

Wait til these kids turn into not-so-cute-and-cuddly adolescents and teens. This woman will be just as bereft and empty as she did nine months ago. She has a serious mental problem. She admitted that she hadn't had sex "in years"--this crazy wench is looking for intimacy and love in the act of having children, but can;t even develop a mature relationship to warrant and legitimize her large brood. Pathetic. "

" They had a pych evaluate her and said she was sound. On insight they have had numorous people analyse the situation and she seems more into thinking she could get money for the book rights and free help from churches. I guess the last mother who had 8 got all kinds of free things and millions of dollars for having them. It seem to me to be a scam. They believe she had a face lift. She wants to be famous. I'm sure she likes kids but she is an adult and should start to think like one. "

" karl, you speak with forked tongue. "

" I don't think that woman is a gold digger -- I think she has a psychological problem, like she feels guilt for having lost babies and has a compulsion to try to make up for the miscarriages. It's not the fault of the children, and I think it would be wrong to break them up, but the mother needs psychological help, not a college degree.

I agree absolutely that what the doctor did is unethical -- without him, she could not have done such an irresponsible thing. Even if he couldn't recognize that she has a mental/emotional problem, he knew she already had 6 children, some disabled, all on public support. For him to then knowingly create the possibility of 6 or more children being born to the same mother AND putting them all at risk (chanced of them all surviving and no harm to the mother was pretty slim) -- he is the one who should be held responsible.

I thought I had heard that he is being investigated. He certainly should be.

Just remember though -- those children did not have a choice of how they were conceived and born, but they were born and are now people, family, and should be raised all together as they family they are. "

" No I don't think the DPW boss had anything to do with the octuplets. Was that your question? "

" Calling FG for a grammar censure on two cents forum! You are needed FG. Code red on grammar. Help needed ASAP. "

" By the the way the have named and had the picture of the doctor on the TV. I saw him. He probably was a part of the whole scam. She has three disable children that need attention and are in jeopardy. They are calling for social services to step in and I expect they will probable have to. These kids, each and every one of them deserve attention she can not give. There are people out there that are childless. Not one child has a father, all were artifically conceived. I say, take the children away and lock her up. "

" The doctor of that women with the 14 kids was uneithical. She was a gold digger. She put up a web page showing the 8 babies begging for money already. She thought she would make a bundle on this. Mentally ill... She thought she would get away with this scam. Thought everyone would help her and she was selling the book. Now her price has dropped. Neither doctor or women were right. If you can not support the child DO NOT HAVE THEM. I love babies, but I didn't expect anyone else to support my children. She isn't mentally ill. She believes the world owes her a living. It is up to the parents or women to determine how many children she wants. Wish people would grow up. "

" Gaot and movedsouth--EXACTLY. That post about the Republican doctor was intended to be entirely facetious to prove how STOOOPID it is when people have such a pervasive ideological perspective that paints every problem and social ill as a fault of any one group of people.

The "Liberal" strawman is the MOST ridiculous of these, because for all the b!tchin' that dittoheads do about liberals, they're COMPLETELY overlooking the fact that liberals had N-O-T-H-I-N-G W-H-A-T-S-O-E-V-E-R to do with completely flushing the USA into the toilet the past 8 years.

Don't even try to argue it--it was the Conservatives and their failed ideology who were responsible. And now, they're crying like babies because the people have rejected them and their proven-invalid principles. It would be nice to see just ONE Conservative admit that they're to blame for the downfall of America. "

" Thanks NL!!!!
FACEBOOK!!!!!!! I do not use it!!!

I like the Myspace.

Well, this weekend, my "parent" company is coming out and getting the machines that I have in my garage. 8 years of it. Kind of sad to see it go, but am happy to part with it!! For someone that has no interests in classic cars, I sure learned a lot about them! "

" BLD...i c u asked this b4...r u talking about that kid whose appeal was denied and his sentence is upheld for that high speed chase that resulted in the trooper smashing himself to smithereens? If so, I beleive the cop was belted but he was speeding just as fast as the cycle, if I remember they clocked at over 100 at times. Belt or not at that speed smashing into a tree? there just aint no hope for life there. I felt his appeal would have revealed more as I felt the cop was reckless in his chase...BTW, congrats on your plans moving right along...I am rarely on here now as SO busy with facebook now - conversations are more interesting to me. It has turned into the adult site to be as workbuds joined and high school folks, etc - I can bearly keep up w/all the em's (myspace is teenage). The Citizen is on there also but r/t being a group or page they are a friend - which is odd to me cuz all I thought of was who is this clever employee who talked their boss into being legitimately on FB all day as part of work. "

" A-Rod should be banned from playing baseball. If they let him play, then induct Pete Rose into the baseball HOF immediately! "

" Was the police officer who was involved in the motorcycle chase accident wearing a seatbelt?

Can someone elaborate on this for me? "

" Doctor karl, what does that doctor being Republican have to do with anything besides venting your twisted mind? I know he must be a Republican because brew1234 says karl KNOWS. I disagree with karl's diagnosis of being mentally ill, but like brew1234 says, karl knows. karl, that post was total stupidity. "

" Is it possible the head of the DPW maybe one of the involved? "

" I may have missed it but as of yet I have not seen the doctor named by the medical board, yet you state he's a Republican. I do not agree with what this doctor did, but I do not find it necessary to invent stories to get my point across. What a shame... "

" Queenie, your argument makes ZERO sense, but I expected that.

You lump in all the people around the world which draw your ire, label them "irresponsible" and blame "Liberals". Despite my sincere pity and disgust for your limited reasoning abilities, I swear I just laughed. What a sad, twisted way of dealing with your anger for the world and the things you can't control.

The woman in California is not "irresponsible", she's mentally ill. She never should have been implanted by the GREEDY REPUBLICAN DOCTOR eager to turn a profit at taxpayer's expense!

More results of the failed policies of Republi-can'ts with regard to Health Care.

You should open for CVN when he takes his comedy routine on the road! "

" karl war is war. maybe immoral but not illegal. if you liberals had responsibility in your vocab i guess the lady in california who is on welfare and had 8 kids on top of 4 others should be responsible and not take a cent from anyone to care for them. california, the home of the liberals. what great fiscal shape that state is in ahahahaha. sadly we are not too far behind. dont foget that you cant multiply wealth by dividing. simple math. "

" " Quueenie, you're wrong on two points--number one, "responsibilty" is definitely a word that Liberals have in their vocabulary.
We want to hold dumb clucks like you to admit that Bush and his criminal cabal hold the responsibility for the treasonous act of selling out the United States of America to corporate interests and Conservative Liars and Thieves, and ruining America and the world's economy.

Ditto that for the war crimes and Crimes Against Humanity of starting an illegal, war-for profit.

Two--Homeless people "choose" to be homeless in the same way that you choose to be ignorant, bigoted, and stupid. If you can admit that, then I'll give ya the points on the homeless thing--got it, Queenie?

I wish I believed in "karma"--you would be a ripe candidate for a serious reckoning. " "

" Do you know how much the head of DPW makes, or is it just some irrational statement? "