If the Department of Public Works employees would like to use the tools that belong to the city, charge them rent like anyone else would have to pay.
Who cares about Tim Tebow returning to Florida, or any of the other crap that you put in the sports section. The Citizen sponsors The Citizen Masters bowling tournaments yet there are no articles or scores posted online at auburnpub.com.
Concerning the Public Works Department, this has been going on for years. Why did City Manager Palesh cover this up, taxpayers have been putting up with this for years?
I'd like to suggest that Ms. Soules and the editor of The Maroon Monthly should learn when to use "affect" and when to use "effect."
Why doesn't the AP, Associated Propaganda, print pictures of Jews whose family members were injured or killed by Haamas mortars and rockets?
Regarding the DPW: I think we all know in the city that they get away with murder and have for years. I don't see why there are not changes ever.
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movedsouth wrote on Jan 19, 2009 9:48 AM:
karl the 2nd wrote on Jan 19, 2009 9:35 AM:
"Boooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!" "
karl the 2nd wrote on Jan 19, 2009 9:34 AM:
" As Bush leaves the White House, I hope he remembers how Clinton left it for him. "
I agree! With that huge pile of money called the "Surplus" in it! Now we have record deficits,a nd will for years--maybe generations!
INDICT!!
CONVICT!!
PUNISHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! "
bassistlearningdrums wrote on Jan 19, 2009 8:35 AM:
movedsouth wrote on Jan 19, 2009 8:23 AM:
daydreamer wrote on Jan 19, 2009 8:19 AM:
Farmer's Gal wrote on Jan 19, 2009 8:15 AM:
Unknown... wrote on Jan 19, 2009 8:09 AM:
movedsouth wrote on Jan 19, 2009 7:49 AM:
Farmer's Gal wrote on Jan 19, 2009 4:28 AM:
Rules aren't much use if they aren't enforced. "
brew1234 wrote on Jan 18, 2009 7:35 PM:
movedsouth wrote on Jan 18, 2009 1:29 PM:
Daydreamer wrote on Jan 18, 2009 7:31 AM:
AJ wrote on Jan 17, 2009 6:28 PM:
Good stuff. I hope people bookmark it and let others know about it. It is first class. "
AJ wrote on Jan 17, 2009 6:23 PM:
hehehehhe. just kidding... "
AJ wrote on Jan 17, 2009 6:18 PM:
Had to get away for a while, but now that I am back, expect that I will do my best to defend the cause of righteousness!!! Not that it will matter all that much to a lot of the informationally challenged here, but we have to try, right?
Thanks again for the welcome back - I greatly appreciate it!! "
Farmer's Gal wrote on Jan 17, 2009 4:26 PM:
If the circumstances are the same, yes, the sentence should be the same. Of course, if someone had kidnapped Brew's child and made him rob the bank, while Karl was a repeat offender, then the sentences should NOT be the same because the circumstances are different. Apologies, Karl and Brew -- this is just a made-up example -- no offense!
I was outlining scenarios in which the same law was broken, but in such different ways that the sentences should not be the same.
We don't know if one person returned only a shovel, or if that same person also had three drills, a power saw and a step ladder as well as the shovel. Without all the info, it's hard to tell how guilty which people are, but they aren't telling. "
karl the 2nd wrote on Jan 17, 2009 3:36 PM:
It's not like there is any mystery what the appropriate sentence and punishment is for War Crimes and High Treason? "
Farmer's Gal wrote on Jan 17, 2009 2:55 PM:
the bone wrote on Jan 17, 2009 2:47 PM:
Farmer's Gal wrote on Jan 17, 2009 1:55 PM:
Tom wrote on Jan 17, 2009 12:26 PM:
Nothing like creating a new generation of people that hate you to foster peace. "
karl the 2nd wrote on Jan 17, 2009 11:31 AM:
AJ wrote on Jan 17, 2009 7:56 AM:
There has been a UN resolution that has gone unheeded for how many years now?
Since Israel has WMD, and I know you don't believe in moral relativism (not that it matters), I suggest we go in and bomb the heck out of Israel until they comply with that resolution made decades ago, and I am sure you must agree. After all, you thought nothing of bombing the crap out of Iraq even without a similar UN resolution (I know you will not understand the nuance here so I won't bother).
I don't know what rock you are living under CVN, but Israel has admittedly broken the cease-fire, not Hamas.
Please try to extricate yourself from the hypnotic spell that your media sources have put you under. It makes you look foolish, and does nothing to advance the discussion. "
Farmer's Gal wrote on Jan 17, 2009 6:30 AM:
daydreamer wrote on Jan 17, 2009 6:24 AM:
scouty wrote on Jan 17, 2009 12:36 AM:
You were a verry sorry excuse for a leader. Hopefully in the future of this country we sincerely pray (karl) that a Dope like you is never president ever again. Hope you have a heart attack while
on the toilet.
sincerely
your pal
scouty "
scouty wrote on Jan 16, 2009 11:52 PM:
what goes around comes around "
karl the 2nd wrote on Jan 16, 2009 9:04 PM:
If you've never seen Olberman's Special Comments, don't miss this one.
You too, Chris. "
justventing wrote on Jan 16, 2009 4:03 PM:
FREBUS49 wrote on Jan 16, 2009 3:47 PM:
That's the smartest thing you said in months. Drop the Bomb. Turn the place into a radioactive parking lot and send our troops home. "
Farmer's Gal wrote on Jan 16, 2009 3:38 PM:
karl the 2nd wrote on Jan 16, 2009 3:10 PM:
Ask the Schiavo's. "
karl the 2nd wrote on Jan 16, 2009 3:09 PM:
Listen, to be honest, I agree with you about radical Islam. It needs to be exterminated.
But you're missing the point with the situation in the Gaza. You're confusing the issues, and lumping every Muslim with a legitimate beef into one big barrel of poisoned apples.
Eliminate radical Islam, YES. But use a bomb where a scalpel would do? It's a ridiculous over-reaction. I mean, by your standards, why don't we just drop nuclear bombs on all the Middle East? Why not just kill 'em all?
Nothing's going to change until Israel recognizes Palestine's right to exist--and not just like caged cockroaches, but to actually thrive and co-exist. "
the bone wrote on Jan 16, 2009 2:52 PM:
chris van note wrote on Jan 16, 2009 2:51 PM:
You can't reason with the insane and the Muslim fanatics are just that, insane. You aren't going to change their mind or their beliefs, period.
We need to shut down the radical, hate filled Madrassas and pressure the Saudis to curtail the Wahhabi cult. And until that happens and that part of Islam wants to actually modernize and show some tolerance, steel on target will be the order of the day.
And FG, reading comprehension...I said radical Islam, not Islam itself. "
karl the 2nd wrote on Jan 16, 2009 2:37 PM:
OOH! I'm sure that Chris just shudders with the blatant MASCULINITY of statements like that!
KILL,KILL,KILL!!! uuuUUUUURRRAH! LOL!
Oh Chris--I am no fan of radical Islam--you know how nutty I think ALL Religions are.
But you're not seeing the forest for the trees, in my opinion.I've spoken to real, live Muslims about their perceptions of America, and they tell us that they have no problem with our culture, they just hate our hypocrisy, and the way that we don't hold ourselves to our own standards.
For every action, there is a reason. If you fail to grasp the reason, you get the same reaction every time. As a guiding Life Philosophy, that's not very smart. how do you expect or hope for anything to change if you (Israel) keeps doing the same things every time? "
karl the 2nd wrote on Jan 16, 2009 2:27 PM:
'THANK YOU GOD, FOR SENDING YOUR CREATURES INTO OUR PLANE'S ENGINES AND CAUSING US TO CRASH JUST SO YOU COULD SCORE ANOTHER 'PUBLICITY' COUP! THANK YOU GOD!
Do I even need to try to explain to you how utterly STOOOPID this sounds?!?!
How can you be serious?!?! "
Farmer's Gal wrote on Jan 16, 2009 2:19 PM:
Answer: None. None whatsoever. "
Farmer's Gal wrote on Jan 16, 2009 1:36 PM:
Our term project was to draw up a map of where we would put the borders and how we would justify and maintain those borders. It was a tough assignment -- diplomats have been trying to do just that for centuries! -- but we had to have a plan that was reasonable and address what we would do about the inevitable objections to whatever plan we proposed -- and that didn't include bombing the other side into submission!
We had Jewish and Christian as well as non-religious students in the class, though sadly no Muslims at the time, and got quite an earful from a young woman who was a Lebanese Christian whose family had to leave during one of those wars Israel waged on their country.
It was a learning experience that has stuck with me the rest of my life, and though I only follow the Middle East situation fitfully, off and on, like Karl, I have exposed myself to alternative POVs as well as the mainstream, and judged for myself what sounds more true and what sounds more like propaganda. "
chris van note wrote on Jan 16, 2009 1:34 PM:
I'll keep my trust in putting steel on target.
The last couple of books I read on Islam were "The Rage and the Pride" and "The Force of Reason" by Oriana Fallaci. "
the bone wrote on Jan 16, 2009 1:15 PM:
karl the 2nd wrote on Jan 16, 2009 12:42 PM:
Keep up the good fight!
Chris--once again, you seem simply unable to make a connection between cause and effect, between one action that causes another.
Here's a clue--when a woman leaves a man for another, that man can do one of two things.
1. He can blame that "dirty, filthy %$#@&!" for leaving, or,
2. He can examine WHY she left, and what role he played in her decision.
I suspect you are of the former persuasion? LOL
The violence in the Gaza strip is not related simply to ancient Scripture and predictable hate-speech from fanatical mullahs. I could easily waste a lot of space here, typing in Christian hate-speech from the Bible, and any number of hardcore Evangelical preachers!
The problem with your approach, Chris, is that whether 10 days, 10 months, 10 years, or 10 decades from now, the problem will STILL remain unchanged--because all your method does is to eliminate the symptoms, but not the disease.
There MUST be negotiations and talks in the Middle East--the real problem is that Israel's heavy-handed tactics are fostering a resentment that will make it difficult if not impossible to even sit at the table--and that's the real tragedy.
Bigger nations than Israel have learned painfully how these simple fighters can bring down an entire nation to its knees--didja ever learn anything about the Soviet Union's campaign in Afghanistan?
What was that book you read on the Middle East, Chris??? C'mon, bud; just one title? One? Remember, Conservative spin-texts don't count... "
karl the 2nd wrote on Jan 16, 2009 12:23 PM:
-----LOL! Guffaw!!! PFFFAAAAAHHH!!
Hey B0ner--DON'TCHA THINK THAT IF "GOD" WAS PAYING ATTENTION, THE PLANE MIGHT HAVE STAYED IN THE AIR?!?!
I was just waiting for some fool to make a predictably obtuse statement like this!
HEY GOD! HOW 'BOUT PAYING ATTENTION, HUH??? SHUT OFF THE "GUITAR HERO"!! LOl! "
Farmer's Gal wrote on Jan 16, 2009 11:37 AM:
And that sums up the sickness. "
Farmer's Gal wrote on Jan 16, 2009 11:35 AM:
Farmer's Gal wrote on Jan 16, 2009 11:35 AM:
chris van note wrote on Jan 16, 2009 11:10 AM:
" Let's see, at last count, 10 Israelis had died in this latest flare-up, two of them from friendly fire. And how many hundreds or more from Israeli bombings?"
So there is some sort of moral equivalence? Really?
Again, I wonder how many of the suicide bombings and rocket attacks in Israel you and your other liberal freinds have protested? I would guess that amount to be ZERO.
I'm guessing that you are whining about is that Israel needs to take a “proportional response” to the attacks. Hamas are murdering, bloodthrirsty thugs and not the 4H club of Gaza.
Proportional response? Hamas is firing rockets into the civilian populace across an internationally recognized and maintained border.
Since this has escaped you with regard to what Hamas wants to do to Israel and Jews in general: They dont want to negotiate - they want you dead. There is no peace treaty, there is no trade route to give them, no "common ground" unless its your grave. Thats all they want. You and your family dead.
Its in their charter, its what they are all about.
Overwelming superior firepower employed to maximize enemy deaths in the short run insures that more will live in the future. The US has used it with great success. "
the bone wrote on Jan 16, 2009 10:55 AM:
Farmer's Gal wrote on Jan 16, 2009 9:50 AM:
" You see what I mean, Karl -- you cannot argue logic with someone who is brainwashed to think the Israelis are Gods Chosen Ones Who Can Do No Wrong even when they are EXTERMINATING innocent civilians who are trapped inside the borders of the Gaza every day (like shooting fish in a barrel) at the same time they pay for their war with money they got by whining about having been treated badly in the past. "
Farmer's Gal wrote on Jan 16, 2009 10:47 AM:
Ever hear of Freud? He has this thing called transference -- that's where the liar thinks everyone else is lying because he is in denial of his own behaviors, the cheater thinks everyone else is cheating, and the holier-than-thou who hold Israel above the rules applied to any other nation who thinks other people are taking that position. I certainly haven't -- I'm just pointing out -- repeatedly and to no effect through such a thick layer of denial -- that the Israelis are hypocrites. "
chris van note wrote on Jan 16, 2009 10:16 AM:
Have you protested against the 3000 plus rockets Hamas launched into Israel this past year? Or just Israel defending itself?
Hamas is launching rockets that have hit schools, homes, where ever, as they want to kill as many Israelis as possible and they specifically target civilians. The Hamas fighters hide among the other Palistinians and use women and children as human shields. "
Farmer's Gal wrote on Jan 16, 2009 9:55 AM:
"Every Jew, somewhere in his being, should set apart a zone of hate —healthy virile hate— for what the German personifies and for what persists in the German." Elie Wiesel
Change the word "German" to read "Arab" and it comes out to the same thing. Turn it around, though, and you will be accused of racism. How about if we substitute the words "Native Americans?" Nope, we are only "allowed" to hate Germans and Arabs in this world, then we wonder why we have such a mess in the Middle East. Jews are allowed to hate, but Arabs aren't. "
Farmer's Gal wrote on Jan 16, 2009 9:50 AM:
If you hold up a mirror to a blind man he still cannot see himself. "
the bone wrote on Jan 16, 2009 8:28 AM:
chris van note wrote on Jan 16, 2009 8:20 AM:
Former top Islamic Jihad rocket maker Awad Al-Qiq, who was killed in an Israeli air strike last May, was the headmaster and science instructor at an UNRWA school in Rafah, Gaza. Said Siyam, Hamas' interior minister and head of the Executive Force, was a teacher for over two decades in UNRWA schools.
Lawmakers on Capitol Hill say they are also concerned that terrorist propaganda is being taught in UNRWA schools. A notebook captured by Israeli officials at the UNRWA school in the Kalandia refugee camp several years ago glorified homicide bombers and other terrorists. Called "The Star Team," it profiled so-called "martyrs," Palestinians who had died either in homicide bombings or during armed struggle with Israel. On the book's back cover was printed the UNRWA emblem, as well as a photo of a masked gunman taking aim while on one knee.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,479940,00.html
Waiting for the referance to "Faux" news because the libs don't like the answer...5..4..3..2..1.... "
chris van note wrote on Jan 16, 2009 8:08 AM:
Your comparison of Hamas to the Jewish resistance fighters in the ghettos and elsewhere is not only wrong it is appalling.
The Jewish resistance fighters were trying to save themselves and other Jews from extermination.
If you want to make a realistic comparison, it would be Hamas and the Nazis. They both have/had the same goal in mind. Here are some of the principles outlined in the Hamas charter:
"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).
"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."
And here is their "hadith" (a form of the Muslim oral tradition):
The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said:
"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Muslim). "
daydreamer wrote on Jan 16, 2009 7:56 AM:
Farmer's Gal wrote on Jan 16, 2009 7:41 AM:
http://www.auburnpub.com/articles/2009/01/16/opinion/amy_goodman.txt
"Joos," as CVN calls them, like anyone else who isn't brainwashed on the subject, can see how this situation arose out of the cruel daily oppression of Palestinians living in Gaza, essentially no different than Jews living in the ghettos at the beginning of WWII, except that when Jews in the ghettos rose up to fight Nazis we called them brave Resistance or Freedom Fighters, instead of terrorists. "
the bone wrote on Jan 16, 2009 7:05 AM:
Farmer's Gal wrote on Jan 16, 2009 5:02 AM:
Farmer's Gal wrote on Jan 16, 2009 4:59 AM:
It was called "British Mandate of Palestine" in 1942 (1920-1948).
Launch an attack FROM the UN Building? Now who is putting forward paranoia conspiracy theories?
Thanks, von pupgas, and right you are. "
karl the 2nd wrote on Jan 15, 2009 10:47 PM:
Sheesh--I guess you are, ain'tcha? (You too, Queenie?!)
Chris, it's not about "hugging" anybody. It's not about strolling into a madrassa and striking up casual conversation about American Idol or cheeseburgers.
What you don;t seem to understand is that THERE IS A REASON THAT THESE PEOPLE ARE ANGRY! IT HAS TO DO WITH THE USA'S SUPPORT FOR ISRAEL!
Honestly, Chris--talk about a convenient, but ultimately STOOOOPID worldview which you subscribe to--what; let's just go around killing everybody who has a beef with us or Israel-by-proxy?!
Chris, I would hate to be your neighbor. You seem like the kinda guy who would cut down all the nice shade trees next to the property line, throw loud parties to all hours of the night, burn a barrel of garbage every night smelly and then wonder why your neighbor is "such an a**hole!" Do you understand the relationship between Cause and Effect?!? Can you even understand that for every action there is a reaction?!
WHY do they hate us ,in your opinion? Give me ONE GOOD REASON--let me give you a clue--it starts with "I" and ends in "L"--DO SOME RESEARCH BEYOND SEAN HANNITY'S 'AMERIKA'!
It takes a strong man to talk to his enemy; to give something of his Pride to them, and to attempt to understand the other point of view. THAT'S being a MAN.
Only wimps swing and punch it out like spoiled little babies who lack the intelligence to reason and compromise. Violence and Aggression is sooooo juvenile! "
theking wrote on Jan 15, 2009 9:53 PM:
chris van note wrote on Jan 15, 2009 8:51 PM:
These are the guys you basically defend when blaming the US or Israel for their trouble. Those are the people that hang you for being gay, stone you for cheating, cut off your hand for stealing, behead you if you "blaspheme" against their religion, subjagate women, practice honor killings, etc...
And with your "torture cell" comment, are you actually saying that we just randomly pick up people, throw them in jail and torture them only to let them go? Does being a beta male lead to a severe case of brain cell degradation?
99.9% of the people we have detained, rendered, etc...have been caught on the battlefield or thru intelligence gathering. Granted there has been a couple of mistakes and those people were amply compensated.
A little secret Karl, all of the fanatics hated us before they went to prison. "
karl the 2nd wrote on Jan 15, 2009 7:43 PM:
"Black ad White"? OH no, sir; you have me wrong. I don't see the world in terms of 'Good" versus "Evil", "Right" and "Wrong", as many people do--sheesh, if you've been following any bit of my editorial writing, you'd know that that cozy, comfy worldview is waaay too convenient and callow for me.
I prefer to admit that issues have deeper layers and facets than just "Terrorists=BAD; Amerika/Israel=GOOD"!!
Puhleeze.
By the way, CHRIS--if you were arrested, thrown in a torture cell, sleep deprived, humiliated, starved, and possibly more, wouldn't YOU want to go get the SOB's who put you there and did hat to you too?!
You BETCHA! LOL! "
von pupgass wrote on Jan 15, 2009 7:32 PM:
theking wrote on Jan 15, 2009 7:04 PM:
scouty wrote on Jan 15, 2009 6:40 PM:
scouty wrote on Jan 15, 2009 6:25 PM:
scouty wrote on Jan 15, 2009 6:15 PM:
anyone remember? "
movedsouth wrote on Jan 15, 2009 6:02 PM:
perturbed wrote on Jan 15, 2009 6:00 PM:
the bone wrote on Jan 15, 2009 4:58 PM:
karl the 2nd wrote on Jan 15, 2009 4:56 PM:
"AMERIKA UBER ALLES!"
"SEMPER FI, DO OR DIE!!"
"KILL, KILL, KILL!"
UUUURRAH!! lol!
OK, Chris, you're obviously beyond educatin'. It's more comfortable and secure to be ignorant and SET like concrete in your skull, anyway...sigh.
What was that book?>>
Gotta hand it to you though--you can parrOt Hannity like a pro! Got your merit badge in "Hannity" do ya?! LOL!
Let's change the subject then--what are you going to do to celebrate Martin Luther King day and Obama's inauguration? Going to Washington, are ya? "
chris van note wrote on Jan 15, 2009 4:20 PM:
Maybe in your bizarro world Karl.
As far as Iraq and Afghanistan being "disasters", I beg to differ. There is a young, burgeoning democracy in Iraq (btw, we and our allies won the war as much as you wanted us to lose and have a "I told you so" moment) and everyone knows that Afghanistan is going to be a long commitment, we are winning though. We are crushing the terrorists worldwide, and yes Karl, we need to eliminate them. If you missed the recent news story on Gitmo, 61 of the suspects released have either been killed or captured fighting our troops or attacking our interests.
With regard to Hamas, the head of the snake of terrorism is in Iran (and Saudi Arabia with its radical Wahhabism cult) and no peace is possible until that head is cut off. Their goal, as most terrorist groups have, is to destroy Israel and kill all of the Jews and other non-believers.
Hey FG: How to win the propaganda war - launch an attack from the UN building storing aid for the Palestinians. It certainly has worked, just re-read your response. Even the Israelis are apologising for defending themselves...
And I did catch what you wrote about the "semites". "
Farmer's Gal wrote on Jan 15, 2009 4:19 PM:
So he accuses you of anti-semitism when just a couple posts back I remind everyone Arabs are Semites too. He also equates criticism of the Israeli government with hating "joos" even though one shouldn't have to point out that the two aren't the same thing. "
Farmer's Gal wrote on Jan 15, 2009 3:12 PM:
Farmers Gal wrote on Jan 15, 2009 3:10 PM:
karl the 2nd wrote on Jan 15, 2009 2:53 PM:
Chris, I'm only slightly disappointed that you didn't cut anything from the Al Gore Interwebs? Dial-up problems?!
By the way--is the "Beta Males" thing your new club? "Beta" is the new "Macho", Chris--look into it, OK?
Ditto that for "anti-Semite"--do you own a dictionary? Under $20.00 at Waldenbooks? Need a loan? (Hey---awesome economy, ain't it?!) Criticism of Israel does NOT equate to "Antisemitism", lil' Hannity! You big kidder you! (slaps knee and guffaws!)
Chris, I ask this sincerely--have you learned NOTHING from the disaster in Afghanistan and Iraq? Bottom line--and I paraphrase from a quote from an Israeli politician, I believe, who said "Tanks cannot crush deeply held beliefs." Israel is going on the same silly, discredited policy of the subhuman policy approaches of the Rumsfeld/Cheney mindset--"Terrorist BAAAD! KILLL 'Terrorist'!!"
Puhleeze. Didn't work, Doesn't work. Next...?
Chris what's the last book you've read on the Middle East? Name one? (Ann Coulter doesn't count or qualify, BTW)
signed, Karl the 2nd, proud Registered Liberal and UBER-Beta male since 2000. "
chris van note wrote on Jan 15, 2009 2:01 PM:
How about shooting from UN buildings, schools and mosques? Israel retaliates and they are the bad guys (to beta males and liberals that is).
There has never been an outcry about Hamas from any organization that normally protests human rights violations.
Remember kids, Islam is the religion of peace and they'll kill ya to prove it. "
Farmer's Gal wrote on Jan 15, 2009 1:13 PM:
karl the 2nd wrote on Jan 15, 2009 12:01 PM:
I think what you don't realize is that Israel has essentially DE-humanized these people; the Palestinians. It's easy for us to sit in our comfortable, cozy houses and judge the "inhumanity" of Palestinian tactics, but their actions are a symptom of the brutalization, humiliation, and profound rage they have been subjected to as a people. They cannot work to support their families. Their men feel impotent. There are reasons why people act in such a barbarous manner--callowly painting them as just "savages" who "hate Democracy" as some would just underscores the ignorance of the person offering that opinion.
They are denied water rights and farmable land. They are essentially prisoners in their own country, A lot of what you don't ever read about is that this whole conflict is about the scarcity of resources in that area--it's basically a big empty, arid desert with a few pockets of natural springs which make "pockets" of richly arable land--and which Israel wants to possess, control, and deny to the Palestinians--whether or not those rich farming plots have existed in families for generations. And while the birthrates keep increasing, the land and resources keep diminishing--especially with the destruction of war, and the constant building of settlements by ideological Jews "returning" to the "Holy Land".
What would yo do if the "Indians" came to New York, took your land, charged you a toll to travel across it, and didn't allow you access to your orchards anymore?
And if you can excuse the use of Torture against people whom you feel present a "clear and present danger" to the USA (OUR "homeland"), how can you deny or at least not understand the wont of the Palestinians to fight using any means available to them against what they see as the usurpers and invaders of their homes and lands?
Research this through third parties outside of the biased media and you will see that this is true! "
theking wrote on Jan 15, 2009 11:16 AM:
vic wrote on Jan 15, 2009 10:21 AM:
scouty wrote on Jan 15, 2009 8:23 AM:
Farmer's Gal wrote on Jan 15, 2009 8:05 AM:
In my lifetime, only the Israelis have had control of the space, and they have shown themselves utterly incapable of sharing. Karl describes the situation well in his household analogy.
The government of Israel only holds together thanks to a constant infusion of guilt money from the United States and Germany, and our military backing as well -- what I said about the Israelis getting our military technology before our own troops do is often very true. So, our dollars and our military resources are the tools used to beat down an entire race in favor of another, and we wonder why we are so hated.
Now, let me get a couple things straight:
1. I put the blame on the governments of these groups of people, ourselves included -- as we all know, none of us has total control over what our own governments do. There are enough people who support the government's actions that the people are not off the hook entirely, but there are plenty of people who disagree strenuously with their government's actions. For this reason, I put the blame on the government -- and those who support its actions.
2. Before some knee-jerk comes swinging up, let me make it clear that a criticism of the actions of the Israeli government does not equate to being "anti-Jewish." My comments are critical of the hypocritical State of Israel and read nothing more into that statement that isn't there. "
the bone wrote on Jan 15, 2009 6:32 AM:
karl the 2nd wrote on Jan 15, 2009 12:23 AM:
"Never again--for Jews only" apparently?
Read some 3rd-party books on the Middle East before you open your lentil-holes. I recommend something by Thomas Friedman, or possibly "Obadiah Shoher Samson Blinded: A Machiavellian Perspective" A simply brilliant book.
Here's the basic comparison/metaphor of what it is like to be a Palestinian in that part of the world.
A group of people come into your house. They announce that they're going to live there, like it or not. They take over the kitchen, with the fridge and the cupboards and food, and tell you that they now control that room. You'll eat when THEY say so.
The they take over the bathroom,and tell you that your water is rationed. Some days you get none.
If you want to go to work, or even walk from one room to the next, you have to pass a checkpoint. Sometimes they will delay you without reason for hours, Sometimes, at the front door when you come home, you will be denied entry for one, two, possible three days or more--just because you have on a new pair of shoes.
Occasionally, they'll throw a drunken tantrum and break half of your stuff, or injure your kids. The police won't come to help you. You don't matter.
Look--do your research, and you will find out that this is true.How long would YOU put up with it? The "terrorists" are your young men of your household, who are sick of being humiliated and denied the right to control their own lives and destinies. Yes, they're angry. Yes, they feel they have nothing to use. And when they push back, and damage something in your "guests'" part of the house, you can't prevent that either, because they are blind with rage, and not amenable to reason. They figure they would rather die than live like slaves and animals.
Then your guests come in and utterly trash your part of the house, and kill your mother. And the police say "Well, she had it coming."
Educate yourself, guys. You are fools if you think that Israel has any moral authority here.
FG, you got it right! "
bassistlearningdrums wrote on Jan 14, 2009 11:06 PM:
" Be sure to show your support for Israel in their war against islamic militants. Israel needs to be let loose to once and for all eliminate all enemies. "
I am sure England and Russia would disagree with that statement. "
bassistlearningdrums wrote on Jan 14, 2009 11:01 PM:
daviddelker wrote on Jan 14, 2009 10:28 PM:
Farmer's Gal wrote on Jan 14, 2009 7:46 PM:
Oh, and don't forget they are using mostly American military tech in their efforts - they get our stuff before our troops do.
I can't abide hypocrites. "
theking wrote on Jan 14, 2009 6:55 PM:
nature lover wrote on Jan 14, 2009 6:24 PM:
CayCntyLifer wrote on Jan 14, 2009 5:54 PM:
the bone wrote on Jan 14, 2009 1:59 PM:
Unknown... wrote on Jan 14, 2009 12:23 PM:
karl the 2nd wrote on Jan 14, 2009 11:56 AM:
Hmmm...why is Israel not allowing reporters access to the devastated areas? What are they trying to hide? "