" The fact that the 536 have their share of the blame does not absolve Bush of his own responsibility and blame.

In our system of checks-and-balances, in theory, each of the three branches is roughly equal. So, the Executive (i.e. the President) is roughly equal to the whole of the Legislative (i.e. Congress and the Senate). Add to that his veto power and he starts having the edge to manipulate what the Legislative can do. The Judicial branch is also supposed to be roughly equal, but add in the President's influence over who gets selected to be a Justice and once again, he gets the edge.

The President, all by himself, one single man, is a very powerful person -- not without some checks and balances -- but pretty powerful. Remember, Desert Storm happened by directive of the President, without bothering to get the required approval of the Congress, and hardly anyone even batted an eye at this flagrant misuse of Presidential power.

Don't forget too what this Bush did all by himself via Executive Order -- he gave himself dictatorial powers over the government AND private business should HE decide, all by himself, that it's a "national emergency," which he himself could determine and declare without a check or balance from anyone.

So the 536 ploy just doesn't fly. Yes, Congress has some blame in troubles as well, but the President is guilty as sin all by himself. "

" cm--"karl: its fine to continue to blame mostly ONE like Bush, when the truth is its 536!"
HUH?!?
What the hell is that supposed to mean?
Blame WHAT "ONE" for WHAT?!?

By the way--you should know I would never describe my opinion as "gospel"?! LOL!

If you're talking about my ASSERTION that true Gay people are BORN that way; well, that's not my opinion, that's just a scientific FACT.

Deal, honey.... "

" karl: its fine to continue to blame mostly ONE like Bush, when the truth is its 536!
maybe you should admit that..and when you, do stop thinking of ONE--
aka..yourself!

your word/opinion is not the gospel. "

" "Palin/12"
Her IQ?
Reading level?
Mental level in years? "

" Too bad it wasn't a lot! "

" I threw up a little reading: "Palin/12". "

" $1.87/gal gas in Gatesville, TX "

" Whatever one thinks of my opinions on gays is just that, my opinion. To say that ii is wrong is wrong. I hope this forum is here in four years, along with US, so that we can see what the new administration brings. No one KNOWS what will happen. Funny tho, what we were talking about was paper work etc allowing some of the rights of legally married couples. Paper work, if you don't have it TOO BAD. Palin/12 "

" cm, dd, and movedsouth--it honestly saddens me to no end how precious and treasured is your bigotry to you.
I mean, whatever would you do if you had to admit that you were wrong about Gays? It would be like admitting you were wrong the last 8 years about Bush, McCain, and Palin--and --OOPS!!!--YOU WERE! "

" Two Cents readers and contributors, please indulge us in some shameless promotion:

This week we've launched a new blog called The Parenting Place, that we hope can turn into a place for interested readers to discuss all kinds of issues related to raising children of all ages.

We've noticed in this Two Cents forum some astute observations and personal stories related to the topic, and thought a dedicated blog would be a good feature to add.


Check it out by clicking here "

" Just checked the comparison website:

Cheapest gas in Auburn today: $2.24 (Farmer Guy thought he saw it for $2.20 yesterday)

Cheapest gas is Ithaca today: $2.59

How do they get away with it? It's not like the two towns were hundreds of miles apart.... "

" Gas in Auburn yesterday: $2.20

Gas in Ithaca yesterday: $2.65 and up

I was in bed about an hour early last night -- 7:30, LOL! Was up bright and perky at 3:30 and ready to ... step on a dead shrew one of the cats left for me in my bedroom doorway. Why would a shrew be indoors? My cats often leave me such little "gifts" on the front porch step, but this is the first time inside. I'll have to refresh the oil of peppermint on cotton balls in the attic, and give the cats and extra treat for doing their job so well. "

" funny one DD! lol..
happy friday!
I think last night was the first time since I was 5 that I was in bed lights out by 9:10!

off to work--have a great day everyone! "

" Hey Karl--I'm ok with gay marriage-----------as long as its between a man and a woman. Its ok for a gay man to marry a gay woman in NY. Thats equality--see? The gays have the same rights as straight people. "

" Karl, don't forget Massachusetts. Full legal marriage rights for gay couples for many years and the sky hasn't fallen down yet and I haven't seen any public signs of affection between gay couples. Just what is the big deal? "

" wow I saw gas at 2.01 tonight..

though the gas prices are down and going farther down, most families are ow trying to play catch up with the extra monies..

the stores were horribly quiet today. If we didnt hear a screaming child every so often, we would have thought the mall was closed!

Survivor and CSI, and the DVR in case I should pass out before they are over with. "

" karl: we all have listeed to your writings especially about OLD information...
if I remember correctly it was about 10 yrs out of date.

anywhoo....I am NOT caving to any ideals of fake gays, wanna be gays, semi gays, todays gays being MARRIED.

as for THIS election the majority has spoken ! "

" Possible? Probable? The issue is that nobody KNOWS for sure. "

" movedsouth-I certainly hope that ou do not invest too much credibility in Wikipedia--do you know that ANYONE can actually post information there and unless it gets challenged, it can stay there--correct or incorrect?

Anyhoo--"Conclusive proof of a biological cause of sexual orientation would have significant political and cultural implications." --this is EXACTLY why an expansive media tool like Wikipedia would have such a safe, neutral statement on the issue. If they even dared to take a stance on it, it would raise the extreme ire of the Religious Right and Conservatives. It is simply not a medically-recognized source of information--for your information, therefore, you should not place credence in it as your "Bible" of generalized information.

Quite simply, there ARE various and many causes of "sexual identity"--but that depends on what you characterize "sexual identity".
Do you call a woman who has been extremely sexually abused by a man and so turns to a same-sex relationship a true lesbian?
Or how about a guy who goes to prison and "goes gay" for the ten years or so that he's there, but then comes out and goes back to heterosexuality fully?
BOTH of those situations happen regularly--AND BOTH OF THEM ARE NOT "TRUE' HOMOSEXUALITY!

See--this is the canard that you and people who think like you fall into, with all due respect. This is "Situational Homosexuality"--it is same-sex behavior that occurs in absence of the opposite sex. Ironically, in the case of an abuse victim, the isolation is self-imposed, or emotionally-imposed. People like this seek out sexual contact and intimacy because it is a universal human need.
YES!--THIS kind of "Gayness" CAN be changed, It IS temporary! It CAN be "counseled". But please don't mistake it for people who are BIOLOGICALLY "Gay"!

"Situational" Homosexuals would NOT be the kind to lobby for Marriage, or to want to spend a lifetime with a partner.

movedsouth, if you can cite and stand behind an article which states that "Research has identified several biological factors which may be related to the development of a heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual orientation. These include genes, prenatal hormones, and brain structure", then SURELY you can see that, when squared with the information which I have cited, that--even if you play the cynic-- it is entirely probable that there is exactly what I contend--TRUE, "BIOLOGICAL Homosexuals AS WELL AS "situational" homosexuals?

In that case, these people who are BORN Gay DESERVE to NOT be punished for WHAT THEY ARE. "

" As I have said before, one can find many studies for the determination of sexual orientation. The truth is that the real reason has yet to be determined. Biology and sexual orientation
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Biology and

sexual orientation is research into possible biological influences on the development of human sexual orientation. No simple cause for sexual orientation has been conclusively demonstrated, and there is no scientific consensus as to whether the contributing factors are primarily biological or environmental. Many think both play complex roles.[1][2] The American Academy of Pediatrics and the American Psychological Association have both stated that sexual orientation probably has multiple causes.[3][4] Research has identified several biological factors which may be related to the development of a heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual orientation. These include genes, prenatal hormones, and brain structure. Conclusive proof of a biological cause of sexual orientation would have significant political and cultural implications." "

" Well at least in Karl's last post he didn't call someone a name, that's progress,lol "

" cm, you're entitled to your strut, but this is really NOT about "changing the MEANING of Marriage".
Define it, or picture it as you like in your own life, in your own choices, in your own world.
But the issue as it pertains to Humanity and the irrefutable Science of it is a matter of Civil Rights and Recognition of Equality.
Or perhaps you still vote with the 'flat Earth" crowd? "

" Nah CVN, I will never learn that karl is a genius..
he's like the brother I never had.

having 6 sisters, it was more like drama land, one statement and they cry like babies---lol..

but a brother...you can kick his butt and he still comes back for more!

lol... "

" karl : I really dont care what other countries do, for I dont live there and dont plan to live there.

so my only concern is the USA!

as you enjoyed tooting your horn about Obama, I am enjoying tooting my about banned gay-marriages..

again like genetic/non-genetic,
civil unions and domestic partnership are NOT marriage..they dont use the word marriage, and I plan to aid the groups that will not change the TRUE meaning of marriage.

and no matter what science spits out today, PLUTO is still planet! "

" actually I was wondering what happened to AJ too, for some crazy reason his name popped into my head about 2 am when I couldnt get to sleep.

call it silly, but for me when a strange name or face just pops in my head for no reason, its not good.

so I hope he's fine and just on vacation. "

" Karl you must have forgotten the password to your AJ account. "

" Hey--anybody know what's happened to AJ? "

" movedsouth--I have said it here, and will repeat myself again for your benefit--TRUE HOMOSEXUALITY IS N-O-T "GENETIC'!!!
I do NOT buy into that canard!!! It is the WRONG tack to take in finding the answer!

It is a BIO-CHEMICAL phenomenon!!!

Look--can we agree on this?--in scientific research, a theory does not become "proof" unless it is backed up by corroborating evidence; that is, you must have more than just ONE source from which to gather your "evidence" and then make a decision.

In the bio-chemical analysis of the causative factors involving Homosexuality, not only one but THREE major studies so far have concluded that there is a biological basis for showing that the brains of Homosexuals ARE INDEED different from Heterosexuals:
1. Gunter Doerner's Research from the University of Experimental Endocrinology in Berlin;
2. The Karolinska Institute's Pheromone study, and;
3. The US Sheep Experiment Station studies in Dubois, Idaho have found that "a number of studies have reported differences in brain structure and function between male-oriented and female-oriented rams, suggesting that sexual partner preferences are neurologically hard-wired. Recently, we identified a sexually dimorphic nucleus (oSDN) in the sheep preoptic area-anterior hypothalamus. The oSDN is larger in female-oriented rams than in male-oriented rams and similar in size in male-oriented rams and ewes..."

(http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15488542?dopt=Citation)
(They are studying this to eliminate the financial losses to ranchers who buy non-breeding "gay" rams whom they unknowingly buy to "stud")

Incidentally, that area?--the hypothalamus?--is EXACTLY the SAME area identified in EACH study as determining and controlling sexual orientation!

Now really--tell me how any rational, logical, intelligent individual can possibly stand in the face of such evidence that SUPPORTS ITSELF--INDEPENDENTLY!?!

movedsouth, you could argue that the Earth is flat (as it also says in the Bible) and I would ague it with you til the day uou die, and it wouldn't mean that I'm being "closed-minded". It would simply mean that I KNEW that the weight of the EVIDENCE supports my contention and that yours was simply plain WRONG--rooted in a medieval-ear understanding of Science, and simply IGNORANT of new Science and scientific discoveries.

There is nothing ignorant, arrogant, haughty, or proud about that attitude on MY part. It's simple fact. I am simply keeping abreast of new discoveries and new scientific facts. Why is that s hard for people like you and cm to admit, when it-- and those mutually-supportive facts-- is/are so obviously, plainly evident?! "

" karl again, a truly ignorant person is one that is not open to any opinions other than his own. You fit that category. Here is a site that shows pro and con for a gay gene. It seems ironic that the pro side is on the left. http://borngay.procon.org/viewanswers.asp?questionID=18 "

" Go ahead, Chris--post your information, refute me, show me where I'm wrong on this.
That's a direct challenge.
I'll be waiting... "

" CM, you haven't learned that Karl is the smartest human being on the planet.
He's an expert on the gay gene, religion, global warming, politics, pretty much any subject you can bring up Karl will know more than you...
or at least he thinks he does. "

" cm, it's truly remarkable that you think that just because "movedsouth" is as ideologically stubborn and ignorant as you of the TRUTH regarding the BIOLOGICAL BASIS for being BORN GAY, that you think that he's some kind of authoritative voice on the issue?
SHEESH! I guess when you're desperate to hang on to your precious bigotry, anyone will do as an "expert"?! (I'd "LOL" here, but it's so sad that it's pathetic!)
cm, it's also amazing how impervious your closed mind is to ACTUAL SCIENTIFIC FACT--or do you have some alternate universe of Science where the Science of THIS world doesn't register?

The facts I have stated, the studies I have cited--they're not MY facts and figures, cm. They're done by REAL SCIENTISTS! (oh MY!)

You know that I have folloewed this field of research for many, many years now, and have studied it outside the regular media, reading books, reports, etc. Not because I have any vested interest in it, but because it is a "hot button", emotional issue upon which the Religious Right has staked about 50% of their cards upon--the other 50% being Abortion.

As far as being "the windshield or the bug"--yesterday a judge in Connecticut cleared the way for Gays to MARRY! YAHOOOO!

Check out this list:
Canada
In June of 2005, the Canadian Parliament enacted a law allowing legal marriage for same-sex couples.

Belgium
The second nation to legalize same-sex marriage in 2003.

Netherlands
The first country to grant gay marriage in 2001.

Norway
Became the sixth country to legalize same-sex marriage on May 11, 2008.

South Africa
South Africa became the fifth nation to recognize gay marriage in 2005.

Spain
Spain became the fourth nation to allow gay marriage on June 29, 2005.

Croatia
Civil partnerships for same-sex couples have been granted since 2003.

Denmark
Legal civil partnerships have been allowed since 1989.

Finland
Has offered registered partnership benefits since September 2001.

France
Pacte Civil de Solidarité” (PACS), or “Civil Solidarity Pacts,” were instituted in France on November 9, 1999.

Germany
Gay couples can register as "Life Partnerships," granting lesser financial and pension benefits than marriage.

Hungary
Gay couples have been protected under common-law marriages since 1995; however they are not eligible for legal marriage.

Iceland
Since 1996, gay Icelanders have been protected under registered partnerships.

Luxembourg
Civil partnership legislation modeled after France's PACS were introduced in Luxembourg in 2004.

Mexico
Same sex civil unions were legalized in Mexico City in November 2006 and in the state of Coahuila on January of 2007, essentially making civil unions legal in all of Mexico

New Zealand
In December, 2004, New Zealand enacted legislation recognizing same-sex civil unions.

Norway
Since 1996, gay Norwegians have been protected under registered partnerships.

Portugal
Same-sex partners have the same rights as opposite-sex partners in common law marriage.

Sweden
Swedish same-sex couples have been able to register under domestic partnership laws since 1995.

Switzerland
Same-sex couples are given limited legal benefits with civil recognition.

United Kingdom
Domestic partners can register under the Civil Partnership Act. This legislation took affect in December 5, 2005 giving registered same-sex couples all of the rights, privileges and responsibilities of married heterosexual couples. The Civil Partnership Act applies across all of England, Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland.

US States that allow same-sex partnerships or unions:

Connecticut
Although Connecticut defines marriage as between a man and woman, it became the second U.S. state to grant same-sex civil unions in April, 2005.

New Hampshire
New Hampshire, home of the Episcopal Church's first openly gay bishop, V. Gene Robinson, became the 4th state behind Vermont, New Jersey and Connecticut to offer civil unions. Same-sex partners were allowed to register for civil unions in January 2008.

Oregon
Under Oregon's new domestic partnership law gay and lesbian couples are eligible for all the state-wide rights and benefits of marriage. Oregon also outlaws discrimination based on sexual orientation.

Vermont
The first U.S. state to offer same-sex civil unions in 2000.

Washington
On April 21, 2007, Washington's domestic partnership bill was signed into law giving gay and lesbian couples many of the benefits of marriage.

CM WROTE: "I guess the MANY MILLIONS of us are full of hatred, intolerance, ignorant, uneducated, religious bigots, callous, and have closed hearts and minds!"--YES!!
Y-E-S, YOU DO INDEED!!!
Thank you for that admission!

The entire world is moving toward the recognition of EQUAL RIGHTS for people who are BORN the way they are--WHY? BECAUSE SCIENCE HAS PROVEN THAT IT IS A BIOLOGICALLY INTRINSIC CONDITION!

It takes time for new Science and attitudes to break through the entrenched religious-based bigotry and social taboos. But the tide is slowly, inexorably changing. It is sad that Californians--and ESPECIALLY the MORMON CHURCH have shown that the United States obviously has a LONG WAY TO GO To catch up to the wisdom of the rest of the world!

And here's a comforting fact--the LAST TIME a ban of this type passed in California (before the Supreme Court overturned it!) the margin of "Yeahs" was something like 24%--THIS TIME it was only FOUR percent!

This is PROOF that it is ONLY A MATTER OF TIME before Gays enjoy the same legal CIVIL RIGHT as everyone---in California and elsewhere. The new generations are FAR MORE tolerant that old fogeys like you and movedsouth--and the tide is turning.

SO, enjoy your bigotry while you can, cm. I'll be dancing on it soon enough... "

" now this is teaching your kids hatred, very surprising from Idaho..


http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2008/11/12/school-children-chant-assassinate-obama/ "

" karl again... wrote on Nov 3, 2008 12:56 PM:
But what gives me hope is the record number of people registering to vote. This will be the largest voter turnout in the history of the country.
Does anyone really think that people are just falling over themselves to vote, standing in lines for 3,4, even 5 or 6 hours

CM: The irony of this is that the leftists signed up all of these blacks to vote for Barack, but the many of those same blacks in California (70% of them) voted yes on Prop 8.

http://brighthall.aol.com/2008/11/
06/4-reasons-why-california-banned-
gay-marriage-again/

karl again... wrote on Nov 5, 2008 1:54 AM:
I love the smell of a Liberal America in the morning!

CM: I love the sweet smell of 'conservative' the day AFTER elections!

karl again... wrote on Nov 5, 2008 9:21 AM:
“Landslide”! Our country said loudly-and-clearly, “ENOUGH!”

CM: The country overwhelmingly rejects same-sex marriage,
Similar bans won by larger margins in Arkansas, Georgia, Kentucky, Michigan, Mississippi, Montana, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Ohio and Utah.
More than 20 million Americans voted on the measures, which triumphed overall by a 2-to-1 ratio. In the four Southern states, the amendments received at least three-quarters of the votes, including 86 percent in Mississippi; the closest outcome besides Oregon was in Michigan, where the ban got 59 percent.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6383353/

karl again... wrote on Nov 5, 2008 9:23 AM
YOU ARE IN THE MINORITY, DISTINCTLY!
HOW'S IT FEEL?!

CM: In a resounding, coast-to-coast rejection of gay marriage, voters in 11 states approved constitutional amendments Tuesday limiting marriage to one man and one woman.
The bans won by a 3-to-1 margin in Kentucky, Georgia and Arkansas, 3-to-2 in Ohio, and 6-to-1 in Mississippi.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/
0,2933,137424,00.html

karl again... wrote on Nov 6, 2008 5:55 PM
Just look at this county-by-county map of America--it's almost ALL BLUE!!!

CM: LOOK at the state by state map of America--its' almost all YELLOW!

http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2008/11/11/hot-seat-gay-marriage/

karl again... wrote on Nov 8, 2008 9:10 PM:
Sigh...if only they would LISTEN!!!

CM: as the MAJORITY speaks & votes, I guess the MANY MILLIONS of us are full of hatred, intolerance, ignorant, uneducated, religious bigots, callous, and have closed hearts and minds!

Sometimes you're the windshield
Sometimes you're the bug

Politics is a full-contact sport. Defeat is hard to take.
But democracy depends on an informed citizenry. "

" karl karl karl: we have already gone rounds and rounds over the genetics/NON-genetics of gays..
as MOVEDSOUTH said, its not proven either way!
hatred and NOT wanting to redefine 'marriage' are 2 totally different subjects.

Nature: dont be surprised in what directions people will expect the majority to cave into to fit their 'love life'
never say never for anything is possible.
Ask your grandparents if they expected gays to 'marry'...I would love to know their answers... "

" Sad to learn about Mitch Mitchell passing away; I always wonder what direction Hendrix's music would have taken had he not died. "

" Nature Lover, I live on Rt. 38, in the city of Auburn. As for the censoring, my remarks wern't heated at all, merely a suggestion, and it did get posted, but then it was taken off. I was pretty suprised, because there was no intent of being mean at all!! "

" Mitch Mitchell from the Jimi Hendrix Experience passed away today.

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index..._mitch_mi.html

What a very creative drummer. Sadly missed. "

" cm, u sound REALLY back roads now...mother and son?!? honestly? u sure u aint in them thar hills of kentucky or tennesee? Drop defending your "beliefs" regarding gays and blacks (when election was going) because if u are trying to convey a message that u think sounds all compassionate and logical then I am losing something in the translation because your posts inference hatred and intolerance. Gays and their desire for marrage is just a subject I think u should just remain silent on.

Agree to disagree... "

" cm, your silly question only serves to undersore our ignorance of Science and your desperation to "score a point"--but I shall ingulge you and educate you further.

There is a great reason why incestuous relationship are impossible to compare with two Gay people falling in love and wishing to marry. This is based in the scientific FACT of a “reflexive” aversion to one of one’s own genetic line– it is actually rooted in biochemistry. Specifically, in the Science of Pheromones.

Quite simply, our bodies “attract” to a much greater degree than most are aware of, by the subliminal signals sent by pheromones. The olfactory center of the brain receive and/or reject the “compatibility signals” from suitable reproductive partners while similarly rejecting those of similar genetic lines. (There is indeed Truth in the old adage “Opposites attract”!) This is the biological “safety net” which prevents the unwitting destruction of any genetic line which would interbreed. This is not my opinion, cm It’s Science–google it, honey.

Ironically, the very same reason is a vindication of why Homosexuality (and by extension, Gay Marriage) is completely NORMAL.

A recent study by the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm, Sweden, proved conclusively that the brain patterns of Gay men responded to the pheromone signatures of male sweat in exactly the same ways as women! Straight men showed NO such response.
As I will continuously assert--and in which I am backed-up by Science-- the brains of Gay men are biologically “sexed” as “female”. The brain develops its sexuality even before the body develops the genitals fully, in a critical phase of gender assignment predicated by testosterone levels within the mother.
Therefore, when a Gay man/woman is attracted to a member of the SAME sex, it is because their brains are indeed the OPPOSITE sex. Therefore, it is ENTIRELY biologically “correct” and “natural”.
As you can see, there is a HUGE difference.
“SLAM!" goes the door on your pre-scientific, Bronze Aged-ignorant, religious bigotry!

Feeling smarter yet? "

" This bailout program is getting worse, everybody has their hand out now. Any of these companies receiving bailout money should stop ALL bonuses. I don't want my money going to large executive bonuses. How can you give one a bonus for putting a company into bankruptcy? Bankruptcy protection is supposed to let a company restructure, make them make the effort. The auto industry should start looking at the number of models and scale back. Increase the number of more efficient models and go to the unions and ask (demand) concessions. It's better to scale back wages and keep as many jobs as possible. We cannot afford to bailout everybody AND STILL CUT TAXES FOR 95% OF THE PEOPLE. Maybe Obama could donate the profits from his Obama coins, be sure to get them now. "

" It has never been proved that being gay is biological, there are different schools of thought. You can probably find as many "conclusions" for biology as environmental. Neither has been proven. When a male partner becomes pregnant, then I will believe they should marry, butt not until then. "

" karl: you couldnt educate me on the 'born' ideals that has been proven to be a lame as redefining the word marriage.

What is the difference between two men marrying and a Mother and son marrying each other? In both cases they can claim that is about love. Would you deny them the right to marry, and on what grounds? "

" By the way, ms--cm showed in her callous posts that she well and truly deserved a sound bashing.
She has been educated thoroughly by myself about the Scientific reality behind being BORN Gay, and yet still chooses the comfortable coat of Bigotry and Ignorance over that of Enlightenment and Tolerance.
Our world is poorer, lest "Christ-like" if you will, and more hostile because of closed hearts and minds such as hers. "

" movedsouth, I sit here and I shake my head at you in a similar fashion to cm--whom I shake my head at a sekund tahm.
As long as ALL of these Rights are not afforded to Gays, then there is NO JUSTICE in that.
And as long as Gays have to jump through hoops to get that which straight people enjoy and are entitled to by Marriage, then THERE IS NO JUSTICE.
PERIOD.
There is no room even for argument in my opinion. "

" 1996
The U.S. House and Senate overwhelmingly pass the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA), a bill denying federal recognition of same-sex marriages and giving states the right to refuse same-sex marriage licenses from other states and deny benefits associated with marriage.

President Bill Clinton signs the bill.
Some 38 states have since adopted similar state legislation. "

" read comment #6

6. WHITE GUILT IS DEAD
By Tom Adkins
http://www.blackvoices.com/blogs/
2008/11/11/a-place-where-obama-i-
didnt-i-make-frontpage-news/

Every person in the USA has equal rights in spite of bigotry & prejudice. Those choosing a gay lifestlye want the majority to VALIDATE their sexual choice. Why?
This is NOT an equal rights issue, it is rather a social one.
I for one validate each person as a person, but I do not advocate using marriage to bring about acceptance of this alternate lifestyle. "

" karl again, just saying that these things aren't being denied to gays, as you stated, but are available with paperwork. Not all, but some mentioned. Your response is to bash cm. My post was on the previous two cents, I didn't write at time listed on today's two cents. It was written 6:33 AM. Let's see dumbfounded, ignorant, sound familiar? "

" the DNR is only good if you, or someone in the room, or the person themselves don't ask for help!

I had neighbors who had a DNR, the hubby fell to the floor and stopped breathing, the wife called 911, they brought him back, and after the commotion, she said he had a DNR..the paramedics said she should NOT have called 911 then!
their job is their job--to do all medically possible.

they told her next time to not call for 15 minutes.
When he returned from hospital, he tore up the DNR, still going strong 15 yrs, later!

I am not sure what the protocol is at nursing homes, or your local 911..
A good question to ask them!?

I will send an email out to a paramedic I know and see what they do. "

" movedsouth--HUH?
I don't understand your post. "

" Nah, BLD, no harm just wanted to give it back to ya as was feeling frisky. U learn something new everyday it seems as I d/n know that was what they called Buffalo. Guess I am guilty of calling Auburn that myself lol. Have fun on your trip...

Hey unknown arent u the one that lives on 38A? If so plz read/post on the citizens opinion regarding truck traffic. I do beleive I am correct about 38A being safe.... "

" karl again wrote "For your information, there are over 1,400 rights that Gay people are denied under the law by being denied "married" status" Denied? Bash? again karl again. "

" Exactly FG! I think Buffalo is the Freezing your butt off part of NY! "

" I assumed BLD meant Buffalo -- at least, that's what we always called it, just like Houston is called the armpit of the State of Texas. (You could make an equally compelling case for Detroit, where I was born). "

" NL, I didn't mean it to be an insult.
I usually refer to San Ber'Dino to be the armpit of Socal. Hopefully everyone took it jokingly!! "

" NY's armpit? jeeze it aint that bad! So is SOCAL the stinky feet?

And regardless what papers u have, it d/n matter much unless u are flapping them in the breeze to the powers that be at that moment. My mother had a DNR on file at the nursing hoome and when she went into cardiac arrest, 5 people worked on her for over 30 minutes in three (NH/AMB/ER) locations. I dont comprehend why the idea of legal papers has superceded the desire of gay people to be married if they so wish? Paper is paper but to some what peice really matters is a license.

I agree Unknown as I was censored yesterday but perhaps my response to cm's comments yesterday were a bit heated lol. "