Money talks. The only problem is that people don't keep it long enough to hear what it says.
If there is a two -carton limit on cigarette purchases at Indian-owned stores, is there also a limit on gas purchases?
I'm an ordinary citizen that no longer drives, but I know that it's legal to turn right on a red light, as long as there is no sign prohibiting it. It's always illegal to turn left on a red light, as it's always been.
In my opinion, Obama is going to take money from the working man and give it to the people who don't work.
The right-wing neofascists are already trying to stop their opponents' supporters from voting. Warmonger McCain and his neocon puppet Palin are left to rigging the election for their only hope of victory.
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karl again... wrote on Oct 27, 2008 11:03 PM:
bassistlearningdrums wrote on Oct 27, 2008 10:15 PM:
" Is it 110508 yet? "
I couldn't agree with you more!! "
theking wrote on Oct 27, 2008 10:09 PM:
daviddelker wrote on Oct 27, 2008 9:56 PM:
movedsouth wrote on Oct 27, 2008 9:08 PM:
theking wrote on Oct 27, 2008 8:22 PM:
nature lover wrote on Oct 27, 2008 7:24 PM:
movedsouth wrote on Oct 27, 2008 4:37 PM:
karl again... wrote on Oct 27, 2008 4:22 PM:
I would actually have MORE respect for you if you would just pony up to the Truth.
I'm watching the clock.... "
karl again... wrote on Oct 27, 2008 4:21 PM:
Yes.
Exactly, Chris.
We know.
LOL! "
karl again... wrote on Oct 27, 2008 4:20 PM:
movedsouth wrote on Oct 27, 2008 3:44 PM:
chris van note wrote on Oct 27, 2008 3:36 PM:
Obama walks on water and it matters not who he was close to in both his personal and professional life whether it was racists, domestic terrorists or criminals.
BUT...
Everything McCain has done, who he has associated with and how he voted is fair game.
Liberals: If it weren't for double standards, they'd have no standards at all. "
chris van note wrote on Oct 27, 2008 3:25 PM:
" movedsouth--reality check for you, Sir. (And I really AM being generous calling you "Sir")
Do you realize what you've just said?!
"Maybe KFC"?!?! Geez, movedsouth, I'm really surprised that you didn't also say "Maybe some fried chicken and watermelon?"?!?!
Boy, talk about unintended Freudian slips about racial stereotypes!
YOU, "SIR", JUST PROVED THAT YOU ARE A RACIST.
"What a warped mind you have. "
YES, INDEED.
Glass houses, movedsouth, glass houses... "
Karl, ridiculous arguement but one the left uses for anyone who dares questions "The One". Calling someone a racist is much, much easier than actually answering the question.
Its also pretty pathetic that the only people who play the race card are the liberals...again it is the path of least resistance.
The reason I am voting for McCain and Palin are simply because they best represent my interests and my values.
I'll bet that if you go into the black community and ask WHY they are voting for BO...my money is on the fact that he is part black.
BTW, I love KFC, watermelon, fried chicken and orange soda and I'm lily white. "
karl again... wrote on Oct 27, 2008 2:49 PM:
McCain and Rev. Hagee--Conservatives don't care, even though McInsane actively sought Hagee's endorsement.
McCain and ACORN--tells ACORN members WHILE AT A RALLY WITH ACORN IN 2006, "You are what makes America special"...--Conservatives don't care.
McCain and the Keating Five scandal which caused the collapse of Lincoln Savings and Loan company at a cost of over 3 billion to the US government. McCain had a close personal relationship with Charles Keating, one of the architects of the fraud and collapse, for whom John McSame personally intervened against his indictment--once again, Conservatives don't care.
John McInsane and his voting record of 90% support fot the destructove policies and illegal war of George W Bush, responsible for Crime Against Humanity, and War Crimes, as well as Treason Against America--Conservatives just don't care.
McSame linked to more lobbyists than any in the history of campaigning, and accused of giving preferential treatment to lobbyists--COnservatives don't care.
McCain accused of having an "inappropriate relationship" with Vicki Iseman--a--surprise!--lobbyist! Once again, Conservatives don't care.
McCain's campaign "forever inked with race-baiting"--FROM FOX NEWS!!!! After a campaign volunteer makes up a bogus story about having a "B" carved into her face, and McCain campaign operatives rush to publish and push the highly-dubious story! And once again, Conservatives DON'T CARE!
McSame's campaign also linked to attempted voter fraud in California by a Republican operative deliberately trying to circulate bogus petitions designed to trick people into signing up as Republiscums!
Nyah, Nyah, Nyahnyah nyaaaah, Chris--your candidate has MORE questionable and VERIFIABLE smears against his alleged "Character" then my candidate has!
Chris, I realize that it's hard to swallow, but the American people seem ready to reject your twisted version of "character" and "what is good for America" rather wholeheartedly (not to mention economically! LOL!) Just look at what's being predicted for the House and Senate races! Buh-bye Republicans! Buh-bye!!! "
karl again... wrote on Oct 27, 2008 2:29 PM:
Do you realize what you've just said?!
"Maybe KFC"?!?! Geez, movedsouth, I'm really surprised that you didn't also say "Maybe some fried chicken and watermelon?"?!?!
Boy, talk about unintended Freudian slips about racial stereotypes!
YOU, "SIR", JUST PROVED THAT YOU ARE A RACIST.
"What a warped mind you have. "
YES, INDEED.
Glass houses, movedsouth, glass houses... "
TJ wrote on Oct 27, 2008 2:28 PM:
And yes, to me this is a legitmate concern when deciding who I'm going to vote for. And just to clarify things, I am a registered Democrat, so no need to call me any Republican names...(you know who you are, lol) "
13579 wrote on Oct 27, 2008 1:51 PM:
movedsouth wrote on Oct 27, 2008 12:12 PM:
movedsouth wrote on Oct 27, 2008 12:10 PM:
Rainman wrote on Oct 27, 2008 12:05 PM:
chris van note wrote on Oct 27, 2008 11:44 AM:
" Chris.
I don't care.
Go Obama!
Next?... "
Typical liberal voter it seems. Pathetic really...
Obama and Bill Ayers: domestic terrorist and anarchist-20 year relationship...Liberals don't care.
Obama and Rev. Wright: anti-semite and racist-20 year relationship...Liberals don't care.
Obama and ACORN, being investigated in 13 states by the FBI and According to FEC records, the Obama campaign paid Citizens Services Inc. $832,598.29.
Citizens Services Inc. is headquartered at the same address as ACORN's national headquarters in New Orleans...Liberals don't care.
Obama and Rezko: Barack Obama wrote letters to city and state officials supporting his political patron Tony Rezko's successful bid to get more than $14 million from taxpayers to build apartments for senior citizens.
The deal included $855,000 in development fees for Rezko and his partner, Allison S. Davis, Obama's former boss, according to records from the project, which was four blocks outside Obama's state Senate district.
Although Rezko was widely known to be under federal investigation, Rezko's wife paid full price for a vacant lot in Chicago's historic Kenwood district on the same day Obama bought the mansion next door from the same property owner for $300,000 below the asking price. Rezko's wife subsequently sold a sliver of the land to Obama.
Rezko is now in federal prison and Liberal's don't care.
Gov. Palin spends some money on clothes provided to her from the RNC (the clothes with either be returned, dontated or auctioned off after the election)-OUTRAGE on the left.
Sure seems like the left has its priorties backwards... "
karl again... wrote on Oct 27, 2008 10:51 AM:
Besides, if you want to start drawing parallels, there's still that $150,000 clothing bill from Palin? Nothing she bought couldn't have been had at any JC Penney's or Sears, or any of the anchor stores at the Carousel Mall.....
I don't begrudge Michele Obama a little splurge this time around, After all, if the Republiscums wind up rigging and throwing this election again, it will be back to hot dogs and Taco Bell again.
Cut the woman some slack, huh? "
movedsouth wrote on Oct 27, 2008 10:43 AM:
movedsouth wrote on Oct 27, 2008 10:19 AM:
karl again... wrote on Oct 27, 2008 10:05 AM:
LOL! "
karl again... wrote on Oct 27, 2008 10:04 AM:
I don't care.
Go Obama!
Next?... "
chris van note wrote on Oct 27, 2008 8:40 AM:
A caller asks "The One" to explain how he would do “reparative economic work.” Obama gives the legislative route two thumbs up as his preferred method of “breaking free of the constraints” placed by the founding fathers in the Constitution and then goes on about cobbling together the “actual coalition of powers through which you bring about redistributive change.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iivL4c_3pck "
karl again... wrote on Oct 26, 2008 10:58 PM:
You think the bailout was expensive?
How about a 2.3 TRILLION dollar loss gone UNACCOUNTED FOR by the Pentagon?
I just found out that the Pentagon ADMITTED that it "cannot account for 2.3 TRILLION dollars-that's $8,000 for every man, woman, and child in America!
The date that that was announced?
September 10th, 2001. The day before "9/11"
And guess what office was obliterated in the so-called "Pentagon attack"?
The Budget Analyst's Office-the office that WOULD HAVE BEEN responsible for tracking and accounting of that money.
A vote for McCain and his "Big Military Dreams" would be a vote to continue this kind of utter thievery by the Defense Industry! "
karl again... wrote on Oct 26, 2008 11:32 AM:
This is from the McCain campaign itself with regard to Sarah Palin:
"“She is a diva. She takes no advice from anyone,” said this McCain adviser, “she does not have any relationships of trust with any of us, her family or anyone else. Also she is playing for her own future and sees herself as the next leader of the party. Remember: divas trust only unto themselves as they see themselves as the beginning and end of all wisdom.”
This woman is obviously a threat to the future of America. "
movedsouth wrote on Oct 26, 2008 10:19 AM:
brew1234 wrote on Oct 26, 2008 1:55 AM:
karl again... wrote on Oct 25, 2008 6:01 PM:
I find it supremely ironic! "
movedsouth wrote on Oct 25, 2008 4:44 PM:
Farmer's Gal wrote on Oct 25, 2008 4:32 PM:
But McCain and Palin are practicing the old "Big Lie" ploy -- the more times you tell a lie, the more people believe it. "
brew1234 wrote on Oct 25, 2008 3:41 PM:
Farmer's Gal wrote on Oct 25, 2008 3:34 PM:
But at the same time, Americans are ambivalent about how to change that circumstance. A large percentage are in favor of redistribution of wealth in a more equitable fashion, but they seem to want it to just happen naturally without the government or any other agency stepping in to make it happen.
Kids, that won't ever happen. You either have to live with the ever-more-rapidly increasing divide where the smaller top few control an ever larger share of all the wealth in the world, larger numbers of people live below poverty level and the middle class slowly evaporates -- or you have to move to a more "socialist" version of government and let them redistribute wealth on some level.
Ever since James Madison (and other Federalists) first starting finding ways around the original intent to prevent the massing of the majority of wealth in the hands of the few ("to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority"), we've seen just what we don't want in this country in terms of money distribution. (It's been the same in the rest of the Western world at least since the time of John the First).
For the most part, if you have already amassed a goodly amount of money, you go along with Madison while most of the rest of the folks swing the other way -- and mostly it has NOTHING to do with hard work -- it has to do with having capital to invest in the first place (the rich get richer....)
Interesting to note that many among the very rich also support the concept of distribution of wealth -- if you break down the attitudes by income, the poor and middle class support the idea by a strong majority, while the ultra rich are more neutral and no single group was found to be overwhelming against it. Individuals, yes, and some very out-spoken, and some in every income bracket -- but always a minority or even-up.
Now that was interesting. "
movedsouth wrote on Oct 25, 2008 3:19 PM:
brew1234 wrote on Oct 25, 2008 2:45 PM:
Why does she keep saying that Obama is attacking Joe the not really a plumber and not really making $250K when he is not attacking him but offering him a tax cut?
Obamas policies have some issues so why don't McSame and Palin discuss these and stop the terrorist lies. "
chris van note wrote on Oct 25, 2008 2:17 PM:
http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/10/24/joe.html?sid=101
Government computers used to find information on Joe the Plumber
Investigators trying to determine whether access was illegal
Friday, October 24, 2008 8:57 PM
By Randy Ludlow
The Columbus Dispatch
"State and local officials are investigating if state and law-enforcement computer systems were illegally accessed when they were tapped for personal information about "Joe the Plumber."
Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher became part of the national political lexicon Oct. 15 when Republican presidential candidate John McCain mentioned him frequently during his final debate with Democrat Barack Obama.
The 34-year-old from the Toledo suburb of Holland is held out by McCain as an example of an American who would be harmed by Obama's tax proposals.
Public records requested by The Dispatch disclose that information on Wurzelbacher's driver's license or his sport-utility vehicle was pulled from the Ohio Bureau of Motor Vehicles database three times shortly after the debate.
Information on Wurzelbacher was accessed by accounts assigned to the office of Ohio Attorney General Nancy H. Rogers (D), the Cuyahoga County Child Support Enforcement Agency and the Toledo Police Department. "
brew1234 wrote on Oct 25, 2008 2:17 PM:
chris van note wrote on Oct 25, 2008 2:10 PM:
Great Biden interview.
Anything less than total sycophancy from the Obamedia is considered rude or combative. "
13579 wrote on Oct 25, 2008 12:25 PM:
13579 wrote on Oct 25, 2008 12:09 PM:
cm wrote on Oct 25, 2008 12:04 PM:
Spitzer was dumb enough to put himself into a scandalous position to begin with.
yet, notice how many Kennedy's have gotten away with murder, drive drunk with a death, and too many numerous nasties to count!
whether it was the administration, or a select few, I wonder who in office today DID NOT lose millions on this downfall of banks??? "
Farmer's Gal wrote on Oct 25, 2008 8:04 AM:
Spitzer, before his stupid personal behavior caught up with him, was really onto some good reforms. One of them he began when he was a State Attorney General. He put together a law to protect consumers from predatory lending. Then he networked with Attorneys General from other states, and such laws were passed in nearly all -- 48 or 49 states, carrying over into the time when Spitzer had become Governor.
But the ACC (I think I have the alphabet soup right -- this is the federal organization which since the Civil War has been charged with checking the bottom lines of banks to make sure all is in order) shot down the laws, claiming the states did not have the authority to regulate banking in any way. Then the ACC did nothing, so in effect, they REMOVED the protections the states had tried to put up to protect us, the consumers, from predatory practices to make sure banks could go right on fleecing us.
A mere three weeks before his scandal was outed, Spitzer had an editorial in the Washington Post on this very subject, pointing out how the federal government was not only refusing to protect the people, but was also preventing the states from protecting the people and thereby in collusion with the banks to allow them to prey on us. And he connected the dots to specific individuals in the Bush administration who were key in these events.
Three weeks later his scandal knocked him out of office. But you can't tell me that there aren't dozens of other high officials who have done equally stupid things and worse and have not been targeted to be ousted. It all had to do with Spitzer's efforts to reform and regulate banking to protect the people -- too bad his own hubris and stupidity on personal matters brought him down before he could finish the fight. What a dope. "
cm wrote on Oct 25, 2008 7:37 AM:
your Gov probably has some secret he needs the "Kennedy clan" to clean up, and Obamas coat-tails would aid in that field of cover-ups! "
brew1234 wrote on Oct 24, 2008 11:36 PM:
brew1234 wrote on Oct 24, 2008 11:30 PM:
cm wrote on Oct 24, 2008 10:16 PM:
actually I rank the 'stories of the past' to hearsay.
probably similar to the Bible.
some facts are true, some are exaggerated, and some are just plain lies.
kind of like Columbus really didnt land at Plymouth Rock, yet the family and I still took pics of it while on vacation.
it up to the individual which STORY they choose to believe.. "
karl again... wrote on Oct 24, 2008 6:55 PM:
You are not only a hypocrite, Sir (ma'am) but naive. Your obvious patronizing instinct toward your Faith blinds you to the significance of the role that Religion and the Religious have played in electing the most destructive regime in the USA's history, as well as the reasons why the Neoconservative Party courts them like a fawning young bride, but then, for the most part, has not "put out" on the honeymoon.
The Neocons KNOW that Religious folk are easy to manipulate with their Faith. That's why they court them. Speak a couple words about "Jesus" and appeal to the Religious' predilection for Authoritative and Xenophobic nomenclature, and you've got them all googly-eyed. In fact, the results showed that the Evangelical pretty much voted as a "block" for Republicans in the last two elections.
Thankfully, "the honeymoon" seems to be over for some, and this election looks more hopeful for some independent thinking. But make no mistake about it--the extreme Evangelical Right represent a clear and present danger to the very ideals of Democracy and the future fabric of this country. They would seek to impose THEIR stunted views and policies on America, if possible.
Ever hear of the "Prosperity Doctrine", atlmoon? (How come I think I know the answer to my own question?) You know--the one that says "If you're prosperous; ie, "Rich", it's because you're "right with God", or because "God" has "favored" you. Well ow; what a convenient way to just piss on all the Poor, the minorities, the ones who aren't "Christian"
THAT's what these scumbags push! AND IT'S BEEN REFLECTED IN THEIR ECONOMIC POLICIES!
You obviously have not listened to a lick of what Obama has said he wants to do for the economy--which has very sound underlying principles. He will invest in America, and in transportation, infrastructure--ALL NEGLECTED By the Bush cabal, to pay for this damn war!
You show your one-sided myopic view point by your own words. "
Farmer's Gal wrote on Oct 24, 2008 6:54 PM:
bassistlearningdrums wrote on Oct 24, 2008 6:13 PM:
atlmoon13 wrote on Oct 24, 2008 6:11 PM:
karl again... wrote on Oct 24, 2008 5:32 PM:
LOL! shhhhhheeesh!
OH, you're "one of those" people, huh?
Cripes.
Love it or lament it, mooney; Obama or McSame is the only choice we've got.
And I didn't infer to vote for Obama because he's "not BUSH". I said that he's not a Neocon.
I simply don't know how you or anyone can be so ignorant about what this group is truly about. Their entire platform is PROFOUNDLY anti-American. They are AGAINST EVERYTHING that "America" is understood to be.
America was founded on Renaissance ideals. Freedom. Tolerance. Economic opportunity. The so-called "American Dream". The Neocons are against ALL of these.
Look at their record! They have restricted and curtailed individual freedoms and civil rights! They think nothing of waging Class Warfare; of fomenting Xenophobia and Tribalism for their own gains. They have presided over what is nearly-universally the LARGEST transfer of wealth to private individuals in history. Our economic disparity has NEVER been greater. Our economy is in shambles. The country is divided, hateful, "red-vs-blue". And you wanna talk about "religious extremists"?! ARE YOU SERIOUS, SIR?! What have I been writing about for these last eight years? Neocons USE Religion to placate and motivate their zealous followers! Half the people whom they court believe in an EXCLUSIVELY "Christian" nation! ARE YOU SERIOUS?!
REMOVE THE MOTE IN YOUR EYE, SIR!
Go ahead. Try to tell me why I should vote for their policies, their sickness, their social poisons?
Good luck, buddy. "
bassistlearningdrums wrote on Oct 24, 2008 5:05 PM:
Unknown... wrote on Oct 24, 2008 4:59 PM:
V+http://www.democracynow.org/2004/4/6/worse_than_watergate_former_nixon_counsel "
atlmoon13 wrote on Oct 24, 2008 3:46 PM:
Obama has been linked to terrorists, slumlords and extreme left racist religous leaders for almost 20 years. He has been a U.S Senator for less than three years(two running for president)he has not crossed party lines (his own record) strangly enough the media loves him (oh media is liberal how could I forget)so they blast america with his face and voice every chance they get. again I say I cant wait for our first "reality show" president. Obama is not nearly the answer. He does not speak for us all, we need a middle. not a one man teeter-todder. "
karl again... wrote on Oct 24, 2008 2:18 PM:
"The Graveyard of Empires".
I would NEVER have advocated going into Afghanistan. NEVER.
If the USSR could be defeated there so roundly as to cause its economic collapse, only a proud, arrogant FOOL would attempt to repeat that massive folly.
Apparently, you're a bit "light" on your historical reading? "
karl again... wrote on Oct 24, 2008 2:15 PM:
"How does creating bigger government, more programs and raising taxes on a the broken and soon broke business sector of our nation going to help?"--to tell you the truth, altmoon, I don't have an answer for you; least of all any that would satisfy you. I'm no economist.
But here's what I DO know.
It was the Neoconservatives which have raped and pillaged this country; the current economic crisis is PROOF of that. Even Alan Greenspan ADMITTED that he was wrong to think that deregulation and free market forces would behoove the market to self-regulate with some sense. It didn't happen. Bush and his Republican buddies have grown the government and National debt by an unprecedented scale.
John Dean, in his "Worse Than Watergate" contends that the Neocons' actual hidden agenda is to bleed the Treasury dry so that there is NO POSSIBILITY of continuing Social Programs like Medicare and Social Security--so that they can then privatize those agencies and make money hand-over-fist for themselves and their Rich buddies. They're doing this by running up the debt, and continuing the war (which has already handsomely profited many Neocons, especially, Dick Cheney and some of his closest conspirators.)
The Republican Party is rife through-and-through with Neocons. They have virtually infiltrated the Party so as to be it's majority in the Halls of Power.
I don't think you guys really, REALLY understand who and what we're dealing with here? The Neocons are as much off an actual, real criminal organization as has ever existed in World history--and they are in OUR government!
Look at the "fruits" of their labors thus far? I need not enumerate them here. They BELIEVE IN Lying as part of policy, They BELIEVE that "The Truth" should only be told to a small coterie of "privileged" people. They BELIEVE in "the end justifies the means". They are PROFOUNDLY "Elitist"--but ironically, they are incompetent--as shown by their complete bungling of their tenure in Washington.
This is why my railings against continuing their corrupt, disastrous rule is so passionate. The United States, indeed the World (!) simply CANNOT AFFORD to let these criminals continue their domination of America under John McCain--and make no mistake about it; John McCain HAS BEEN corrupted by the Neocons. His every move, his method of campaigning, his policies and his promises are ALL REFLECTIVE of deep Neocon influence.
Don't get me wrong--I don't think Obama is "The One" as you people like to put it. I just think we have two choices in this election--the McSame-which have already brought our nation to the very precipice of ruin (Hell of an economy, guys HUH?) or CHANGE. We simply can NOT AFFORD to let the Neocons continue unchecked.
ANd yes, I say all this, cognizant of how "conspiratorial" it all sounds, but I only WISH that that's all it were. That's EXACTLY what they would want you and I to believe. "
AJ wrote on Oct 24, 2008 1:35 PM:
CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THIS????? "
cm wrote on Oct 24, 2008 1:02 PM:
Just like the war voted by most!
but he can't hold onto thats 'wasted trillions by the REPs' when/if Obama is elected he will just move troops to Afghanistan. "
Farmer's Gal wrote on Oct 24, 2008 1:01 PM:
His sister was against the war last time I talked to her. "
chris van note wrote on Oct 24, 2008 12:59 PM:
Do you make the poor man rich by making the rich man poor? "
cm wrote on Oct 24, 2008 11:29 AM:
the only big bad issue for REPS is the war, the rest is DEMS securing their bank accounts with their love for NAFTA.
if it was your brother or a member of your group killed in NYC on 9/11, you'd be screaming HIT AFGHANISTAN NOW!
if you choose to be foolish enough to think they whole middle east isnt connected by blood money, then its your choice.
REALITY is Obama will continue the WAR just in a different location, (he even SAID that)
war is war/money-- no matter where its at!
He's still a DUCK! "
Farmer's Gal wrote on Oct 24, 2008 11:25 AM:
cm wrote on Oct 24, 2008 11:20 AM:
no matter who wins, it will not be pretty... "
atlmoon13 wrote on Oct 24, 2008 11:09 AM:
movedsouth wrote on Oct 24, 2008 10:40 AM:
karl again... wrote on Oct 24, 2008 10:26 AM:
Bigger tax breaks for your greedy buddies; no penalties for taking your business offshore, out of country, or for hiring illegal workers; pandering to extremist religious groups and wasting taxpayers' monies with giveaways on proven ineffective and harmful programs; corruption, graft, and greed; an arrogance in world dealings that alienates world partners; a disturbing tendency toward mendacity (that means "lying", altmooon), and psychological issues which lead you to start wasteful wars which damage America's abilities to truly defend itself.
Hmmm..
I'll take being a Democrat any day, thank you. "
cm wrote on Oct 24, 2008 10:14 AM:
Visiting every year, I saw jobs leaving on a regualer basis there.
being in my 30's then, and having 3 kids about to hit teenage years, there was nothing (except family ties) that would be profitable for myself or my kids futures.
BUT the cheese factory is only a start of what we already have happening in our locale.
EVERY BUSINESS will want more breaks or threaten to MOVE.
It a vicious circle! "
atlmoon13 wrote on Oct 24, 2008 9:33 AM:
atlmoon13 wrote on Oct 24, 2008 9:30 AM:
brew1234 wrote on Oct 24, 2008 8:38 AM:
Andy B wrote on Oct 24, 2008 8:33 AM:
cm wrote on Oct 24, 2008 6:31 AM:
a credit card with a 1000.00 balance @ 21% only paying the minimum payment will take 16 years to pay off!!!
with interest of 1680.00 on top of that...
16 yrs.=2680.00 "
cm wrote on Oct 24, 2008 6:25 AM:
reality is there is NO break for the tax payers!
grants have to be paid BY the tax payer,
tax breaks look that way on paper, BUT is the city,county,state, GIVE this money to the cheese factory YOU BET their going to get it back from YOU!
since the original LOANS are coming from China, its going to cost Americans even more than we thought! "
cm wrote on Oct 24, 2008 6:20 AM:
bassistlearningdrums wrote on Oct 23, 2008 9:46 PM:
daviddelker wrote on Oct 23, 2008 8:26 PM:
cm wrote on Oct 23, 2008 6:47 PM:
we dont have a state tax refund here, but they are talking about raising the tax from 7.5% to 8.5%, they have already increased the property tax.
water rates, cable, and phone service went up.
Our electric company is asking for a raise which will mean another 25.00 per month per household.
one way or another SOMEONE, NOT us will get our money..
tough night for McCain to be in the area with the World Series game going on about 30 minutes from where is his speaking. "
Unknown... wrote on Oct 23, 2008 4:22 PM:
Unknown... wrote on Oct 23, 2008 4:08 PM:
http://fixco1.com/bushoutsourcing.html "
Farmer's Gal wrote on Oct 23, 2008 2:53 PM:
movedsouth wrote on Oct 23, 2008 2:23 PM:
movedsouth wrote on Oct 23, 2008 2:17 PM:
movedsouth wrote on Oct 23, 2008 2:08 PM:
Farmer's Gal wrote on Oct 23, 2008 1:24 PM:
A tax BREAK for people who make less than $250,000 a year is going to help an AWFUL LOT of people who literally WORK for a living, and if it comes from the tiny 5% or fewer who mostly "make" money collecting on investments, well, they have more than enough to give a little something back to the system which allowed them to be able to accumulate so much in the first place.
But you are right, cm -- I'll never be in that tiny top 5% or fewer, so it's easy for me to say!
I have a question though -- is anyone actually proposing a tax INCREASE on any group? Or is it rather a tax BREAK for those under a certain income, making the relative difference greater, but not actually adding on an increase to anyone? Or was there to be an increase on businesses (rather than individuals) whose profits are greater than a certain amount?
I suppose I should read up on it some more, but I am under the gun today and in a rush. "
cm wrote on Oct 23, 2008 12:53 PM:
but I see the rich's points too--many were not Trumps kids and handed the millions,
many have worked very hard to get where they are at,
many give to more charities than we can imagine.
I suppose like US, when we work overtime, getting paid time and a half isnt always worth it after taxes.
only for the rich its alot more than our little tax bracket.
of course we want it always to be SOMEONE else's money to go to the government, the rich may not be scrapping pennies for a gallon of milk, but many of lottery winners have been broke within a year too. "
AJ wrote on Oct 23, 2008 12:48 PM:
movedsouth wrote on Oct 23, 2008 12:32 PM:
karl again... wrote on Oct 23, 2008 12:20 PM:
I have to laugh at the redneck attempt to explain to Joe Beer-Drinker to explain why we shouldn't tax the wealthy more.
Let me ask you--anyone who buys into this crap--what does it say when your good ol' Rich buddy has ALREADY gotten you to pony up for their free brews, and yet STILL decides to take his business to another, cheaper bar?
See here's how it goes, as I see it.
10 guys are drinking at their favorite bar.
A few of the guys are really Rich, and the bar owner thinks "Hey, I'm gonna let these guys drink for free, because one day when I need a favor like a job for my kid, or something done on the bar, these guys (If I get in their good graces) are going to do something nice for me. And when they start to serve champagne in this bar, maybe he'll buy us a round here.
So time goes by, and because the bar owner is giving away all this free beer, guess what? The bar owner finds that he doesn't have the money to bring the bar up to spec for the new codes that just went into effect, so he says to the guys "Hey guys! Uh, you know, I've been giving you free beer all these years, and I've enjoyed your company and your loyal business, but I could really use a bit of something back. I need a loan to pay for this work on my bar here, so that it can stay open, and that benefits us all. I get to stay open and serve you get the continuation of your favorite hangout and the great friends you've made here.
The Rich guys speak up; "Now Larry, you know that we believe in free market enterprise and initiative, so we'd like to help you, but we think you should raise the prices on your drinks here, maybe charge a cover charge and a minimum, and let your paying customers bear the burden for this; obviously, they have let you down by not buying enough beer. Oh, and uh...how 'bout another round, Lar?"
When the rest of the guys--who've also gotten free drinks start to protest that maybe Larry has a point, the Rich guys get up and go off to find another bar to get a free ride, and leave the poor guys to either bail out Larry or lose their traditional watering hole.
Bottom line--the Rich have had a free ride these last eight years, and haven't given a DAMN about you or I, and have only left us all bankrupt and broke. "
Unknown... wrote on Oct 23, 2008 12:16 PM:
karl again... wrote on Oct 23, 2008 12:00 PM:
And he even proposed MORE SOCIALISM!
GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT! "
cm wrote on Oct 23, 2008 11:49 AM:
" please karl: TWO years ago,
was gas lower?
was corn cheaper?
was food cheaper?
were there this many foreclosures?
was the unemployment rate this high?
if you answered YES to any ONE of them--whine to your local DEMOCRAT!
to solve your woes=expect them to TAX YOU MORE!
I see this needed to be repeated.!! "
movedsouth wrote on Oct 23, 2008 11:32 AM:
movedsouth wrote on Oct 23, 2008 11:21 AM:
> ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it
> would go something like this:
> The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing. The fifth would pay $1.
> The sixth would pay $3. The seventh would pay $7. The eighth would pay $12.
> The ninth would pay $18. The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.
> So, that's what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day
> and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw
> them a curve. 'Since you are all such good customers, he said, I'm going
> to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20. Drinks for the ten now cost
> just $80.
> The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes, so the
> first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free, but what
> about the other six men -- the paying customers? How could they divide the
> $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?' They realized
> that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But, if they subtracted that from
> everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up
> being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be
> fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded
> to work out the amounts each should pay.
> And, so:
> The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings). The
> sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% savings). The seventh now paid $5
> instead of $7 (28% savings). The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25%
> savings). The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings). The tenth
> now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings). Each of the six was better off
> than before, and the first four continued to drink for free. But, once
> outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.
> 'I only got a dollar out of the $20 , declared the sixth man. He pointed to
> the tenth man,' but he got $10!'
>
> 'Yeah, that's right,' exclaimed the fifth man. 'I only saved a dollar, too.
> It's unfair that he got ten times more than me!'
>
> 'That's true!' shouted the seventh man. 'Why should he get $10 back when I
> got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!'
>
> 'Wait a minute,' yelled the first four men in unison. 'We didn't get
> anything at all. The system exploits the poor!'
>
> The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up. The next night, the
> tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers
> without him. But, when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered
> something important. They didn't have enough money among all of them for
> even half of the bill!
So the moral of the story? If you tax the rich too much...they might start drinking overseas.. "
karl again... wrote on Oct 23, 2008 10:16 AM:
"Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy."
The government bailout WHICH JOHN McCAIN VOTED FOR IS "SOCIALISM"!!
The additional "buyout" of homes by the government WHICH JOHN McCAIN PROPOSED is "SOCIALISM"!!
What is confusing about this, people?!
ALL TAXES "redistribute" the wealth!
cm and Chris--hell of an economy, huh?!
For the past 8 years we've had the policies of George McCa--uh, sorry; I mean, Bush, and look at where it got us!
John McCain is the SOCIALIST in this mess.
HE is the one who both SUPPORTED THE BAILOUT and PROPOSED A NEW SOCIALIST BAILOUT!
GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT! "