" My fear is the "redneck conservatives" wont riot if McCain loses but rather be sneaky and take him out like Bobby or Martin. "

" CM: The point I'm trying to make with Obama is his so-called "judgement to lead". BO is associating with a person who would have murdered 25 million Americans if given the chance. Crazy.

I saw that about the polls. What will happen if BO loses? My thoughts are it be Watts 1965 redux if Obama loses his bid for the Presidency of the United States. From what I've read, the police and SWAT teams are preparing for just such a riot in places like Detroit, LA...
Funny how they aren't worried about us redneck conservatives rioting in the street of John McCain should lose... "

" Obama's tax plan. Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and that the bill for all
> ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it
> would go something like this:
> The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing. The fifth would pay $1.
> The sixth would pay $3. The seventh would pay $7. The eighth would pay $12.
> The ninth would pay $18. The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.
> So, that's what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day
> and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw
> them a curve. 'Since you are all such good customers, he said, I'm going
> to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20. Drinks for the ten now cost
> just $80.
> The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes, so the
> first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free, but what
> about the other six men -- the paying customers? How could they divide the
> $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?' They realized
> that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But, if they subtracted that from
> everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up
> being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be
> fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded
> to work out the amounts each should pay.
> And, so:
> The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings). The
> sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% savings). The seventh now paid $5
> instead of $7 (28% savings). The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25%
> savings). The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings). The tenth
> now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings). Each of the six was better off
> than before, and the first four continued to drink for free. But, once
> outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.
> 'I only got a dollar out of the $20 , declared the sixth man. He pointed to
> the tenth man,' but he got $10!'
>
> 'Yeah, that's right,' exclaimed the fifth man. 'I only saved a dollar, too.
> It's unfair that he got ten times more than me!'
>
> 'That's true!' shouted the seventh man. 'Why should he get $10 back when I
> got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!'
>
> 'Wait a minute,' yelled the first four men in unison. 'We didn't get
> anything at all. The system exploits the poor!'
>
> The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up. The next night, the
> tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers
> without him. But, when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered
> something important. They didn't have enough money among all of them for
> even half of the bill!



So the moral of the story? If you tax the rich too much...they might start drinking overseas.. "

" CVN: I am not sure if there could be a huge take-over, yet nothing is impossible.
but I do think it would be with a fight, mostly southerners with guns.
nothing against Rednecks but they do have more b***s than the average person, and they dont back down from a fight.

NEWS: the polls are now TIED! "

" AJ wrote on Oct 22, 2008 1:23 PM:

" Great stats on the military personnel supporting McLame, CVN - it just proves what I have always known - the military does not attract the sharpest knives in the drawer. "

Nice dig on the military by someone who has never been in the military and knows nothing about it. You'd last about 5 minutes before running home, crying to mommy.

Here is a video of Larry Grathwol, who joined the Weather Underground (BO's buddy Bill Ayers) as a undercover law enforcement agent:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJn5b8_weUY

Although Karl and AJ don't seem to think that their "Dear Leader" BO's connections to Bill Ayers are important, I beg to differ.

Larry Grathwol states:
"I brought up the subject of what's going to happen after we take over the government. We become responsible then for administrating 250 million people … and there was no answers. No one had given any thought to economics. How are you going to clothe and feed these people? The only thing that I could get was that they expected that the Cubans, and the North Vietnamese and the Chinese and the Russians would all want to occupy different portions of the United States. They also believed that their immediate responsibility would be to protect against what they called the counter-revolution. They felt that this counter-revolution could best be guarded against by creating and establishing re-education centers in the Southwest, where we would take all of the people who needed to be re-educated into the new way of thinking and teach them how things were going to be. I asked, well what is going to happen to those people that we can't re-educate that are die-hard capitalists? The reply was that they would have to be eliminated. When I pursued this further they estimated that they would have to eliminate 25 million people in these re-education centers. When I say eliminate, I mean kill … 25 million people.
I want you to imagine sitting in a room with 25 people, most of which have graduate degrees from Columbia and other well-known educational centers, and hear them figuring out the logistics for the elimination of 25 million people. And they were dead serious."

Remember kids, Cuba got "change" in 1959... "

" Just got my new Moccasins for drumming. SOOOO very comfortable!!!!! They make my double bass pedal practices more efficient! "

" Aside from Powell's endorsement of Barrack Obama, I have little respect for him. He worked to cover up the My Lai massacre, and then there was his talk at the UN regarding the non-existent WMD.

Couldn't you have found a better example than Powell, MS? "

" Military not always attracting the sharpest knives, example Colin Powell "

" Great stats on the military personnel supporting McLame, CVN - it just proves what I have always known - the military does not attract the sharpest knives in the drawer. "

" Like I said, I'm a Democrat who splits his ticket. I votes by Absentee Ballot. I said before, I'd rather be dead before I'd vote for McSame & his coice, Alaskan Witch. If he ever gets in and dies in offic, she would take over. Scares me silly. "

" Karl: Al-Qaeda would be stupid to want McCain--he would push the RED button.

Obama however would invite Al-Qaeda to the White House, offering koolaid and wings while they all watch a disney flick. "

" Karl: Al-Qaeda would be stupid to want McCain--he would push the RED button.

Obama however would invite Al-Qaeda to the White House, offering koolaid and wings while they all watch a disney flick. "

" in watching CNN this AM-yaking about the dollars spent on this election,
can you imagine what Americans COULD DO with this wasted attack money, had they donated to a worthy cause like their OWN COMMUNITY?????

http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/
neighbors.php?type=loc&addr=&zip=
13021&search=Search "

" Not to undermine Karl's parody of endorsement, but locally, the Post-Standard has endorsed Barbara Abbott King for NYS Assembly over 6-year, 3-term incumbent, Gary Finch. I hope all you locals will take a look at the candidates' positions and vote accordingly.

http://blog.syracuse.com/opinion/2008/10/our_choices_4.html "

" karl, just a correction, the website is Al Qaeda SUPPORTERS "

" I guess it comes down to whether something will happen before or after the election. Biden said that there would be a created international crises within 6 mos if Obama is elected. He said the decision made is one that the party would have to support and to give it time before saying whether is was the right decision or not. Elect Obama and wait for an international crises. Not something I want to do. "

" ATTENTION!!!!
BREAKING NEWS!!!!
AL QUEDA ENDORSES McCAIN AS PRESIDENT!!
AL QUEDA WANTS McCAIN TO WIN!!!!!
ARE YOU HEARING ME CHRIS?!?!!
From:
http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1852749,00.html
" Al-Qaeda supporters suggested in a website message this week they would welcome a pre-election terror attack on the U.S. as a way to usher in a McCain presidency.
The message, posted Monday on the password-protected al-Hesbah Web site, said if al-Qaeda wants to exhaust the United States militarily and economically, "impetuous" Republican presidential candidate Sen. John McCain is the better choice because he is more likely to continue the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan."
ARE YOU SEEING THIS CHRIS?!
AL QUEDA WANTS McCAIN TO WIN!!!!! "

" in watching CNN this AM-yaking about the dollars spent on this election,
can you imagine what Americans COULD DO with this wasted attack money, had they donated to a worthy cause like their OWN COMMUNITY?????

http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/
neighbors.php?type=loc&addr=&zip=
13021&search=Search "

" By the way, Chris--I find it EXTREMELY IRONIC that you now feign outrage and umbrage at a politician "lying through his teeth"!
Sounds like the people YOU'VE BEN SUPPORTING THE PAST DISASTROUS EIGHT YEARS, BUDDY!
HOW'S IT FEEL?!?!??!?!!
Hypocrite. "

" Once again, Chris--completely avoiding the subject!
WHAT ABOUT ROVER'S TOENAILS?!
Chris, here's the only YOuTube video ANYONE needs to watch!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4VNMERVsC4 "

" karl again... wrote on Oct 21, 2008 11:59 PM:

" Chris, why are YOU changing the subject?
WHAT ABOUT ROVER'S TOENAILS?!?!
Seriously though, you know what's REALLY funny?!?!
YOU GET YOUR NEWS FROM "YOUTUBE"!!!!! hahahahahahaahhhahhahahah!!!!!!!LMFAO!!! "

Simply videos of "The One" stating his positions or lying thru his teeth.
(Of course Karl doesn't bring up the subject matter of the videos.)

Here is another Democrat and what we can look forward to...
Barney Frank: Plenty of rich people that we can tax
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1Mazjm_A5k "

" Thanks again, cm -- YOU got my point, and it was for you that I was initially writing.

BTW, I did the same thing with my handicap permit when my leg was broken -- used it when I felt I needed it, and left those spaces for others in worse shape when I didn't. I probably could have had it renewed, but I didn't, and that's fine with me. I can go uphill just fine, but coming downhill is very difficult on my knee, so I try to park on a level.

You are surely more healthy eating proper food and weighing a little more -- sounds good. I don't actually "diet" -- by "diet" I meant the healthy eating plan for life which the nutritionist and I tweak from time to time. It isn't a rigid set of things to eat, but more a lifestyle and outlook, though I do also keep to a set range of calories on average, again under the advice of experts. "

" AOL poll this AM;
Do you like the Electoral College as the way of electing the president?

No 65%
I have mixed feelings 19%
Yes 16%

Total Votes: 279,797

if the majority doesn't like this way of voting--maybe we need to CHANGE IT..we have 4 yrs to work on it! "

" So, you resort to insults -- geez, you'd think we were discussing politics. I don't have to defend myself as a "real athlete" because I have been. If you don't think so, that's your problem.

My job keeps me in front of a computer all day, but I also manage a whole department, so I am up and down and back and forth in between, in addition to my time in the gym. And I just bought my first home all by myself and the maintenance is mine. Just because I type fast doesn't mean I must sit on my backside all day doing nothing physical.

Yes, different people have different training needs -- I never disputed that. I have been an athlete in training, and I have put that kind of work back into my workout on occasion to try to knock my metabolism back into whack. I also know about the body's need to rest and recuperate between exertions. And, yes, I know about the progressive nature of exercise. It's not my first barbecue.

None of that personal stuff has anything to do with the issue, which the details of my story did -- as cm noted, it's about doctors who can't be bothered to get to the bottom of their patients' health problems when the answer is not obvious, and about doctors who overprescribe or misprescribe drugs when drugs are not the appropriate treatment.

"Just go to another doctor" is not a the blow-off simple matter you make of it. If you have a progressive or degenerative health problem for which every day untreated means further decline, it's no joke to have to go from doctor to doctor, often waiting weeks to get an appointment with a specialist only to have them be no use and have to start over yet again --- all the while your condition is worsening and no one will help. That's no "simple common sense" matter -- it's a nightmare, as I can personally attest. If I could have "simply gone to another doctor" when the problem first started with 5 pounds, I might not have gained 60 and lost as much function as I have.

There's nothing funny in any of it if you are the person with the health problem no doctor can be bothered to diagnose or treat. But clearly, you'd rather launch personal attacks on me than admit I might have a point. "

" Chris, why are YOU changing the subject?
WHAT ABOUT ROVER'S TOENAILS?!?!
Seriously though, you know what's REALLY funny?!?!
YOU GET YOUR NEWS FROM "YOUTUBE"!!!!! hahahahahahaahhhahhahahah!!!!!!!LMFAO!!! "

" The Nov. election will be most interesting this year in Massachusetts. The reason for this is the voter petition binding propositions. Prop #1 is the revocation of the state income tax. The state claims it will cause a colaspse of the state government and the petitioners say the state will have to eliminate waste and corruption.
Prop #2 is for the decriminalization of possesion of marijuana 1oz. or less. Should be a very interesting election even though we already know that Obama and John Kerry will win here. "

" longboard:
if you were to read prior posts--you would see the conversation wasnt even about weight or weightloss.

its about DR's and their lack of knowledge, time, and true listening to their patients.

its about unsolved or misdiagnosed ailments.

its about over-medicating, masking the pain not finding better solutions.

its about basic healthcare that needs to reach better standards by DOCTORS and a more watchful eye by PATIENTS! "

" CVN: I think by now we all know where most of stand on this election.
boy can we agree to disagree on this issue!! lol....

the view should be interesting tomorrow,
if you missed Mondays show/hot topics:

http://abc.go.com/daytime/
theview/index "

" I can say I never worried about weight until I had my last child, before her (11yrs ago) I weighed a whopping 100 lbs. I lived on junk-food!

my DR says stay within 130-140, He says I look healthier! lol...134 right now.
I don't believe in diets, I think simply eating healthier and changing fill-up times is best.

I think the more you crave the more you'll eat. thats why my ritual is to take my cup of hot tea and my piece of chocolate to bed, read a bit and lights out!

being Italian, I love pasta and bread.
but I cut that down to 1 day a week.

longboard: I agree SOME are lazy and just eat for whatever reason, usually its stress.
But I also agree with FG: dont judge unless you know the facts.

I have a handicap parking placard, I only use it when I am in alot of pain.
to look at me, people would think- huh?
but they dont know that some days I cannot even walk to my mailbox.

I also agree some is genetics, I am petite like my mom was, my sisters are big-boned like my dad was.
(except for 'dopey'-I heard she weighs like 80 lbs right now)

But DNA does play a role.
like politics and religion, WEIGHT/Diets are the next most argumentative sunjects..... lol "

" Whatever Farmes gal...then if you were a "real athlete" then we wouldnt be in this kind of discussion in the 1st place. But ill play along with you; by the first paragraph alone you dont even know what youre talking about....you completely missed my point. Quite simply, different people have different training needs. Training 6-7 days a week works for full time professinal athlete who have access to around the clock doctors, dieticians, trainers, - basically anything they need. The normal joe (like you and me) have different training needs and levels our bodies can handle based on various scenarios. And your training regiment is done in a progression. Did your trainers tell you that??

Also if your doctors werent diagnosing you properly - you simply go to another doctor for another opinion! thats Common Sence 101 - but you know that, Cornell graduate, right?

Lastly, if you put the energy and effort into the amount of time you spend on this forum day after day, week after week, month after month - youd probably be in fantastic shape - but you probably already knew that one too....

Youre a funny lady, I like to laugh at funny ladies like you....funny, funny, funn-a-rific :-) "

" Military Times poll, 4300 polled. All respondents 68% McCain, 23% Obama; enlisted 67% McCain Obama 24%; officers 70% McCain 22% Obama; white 76% McCain 17% Obama; black 79% Obama 22% McCain. The polls show there will be no racial voting. lol "

" P.S. I tell my health story to just about anyone who'll listen -- to give some support and hope and encouragement to others who are in the boat I was in before, and to try to help spare them of unnecessary anguish and grief, and to try to get health care professionals to wake up and be more considerate of their patients. I can get pretty passionate about it -- I know what I have gone through and it really upsets me to think of the others who face the same without anyone to believe them. "

" Longboard, I too was an athlete most of my life, and I was a professional athlete for a brief time. The trainers at the gym where I work out do stints in special clinics where they rehab professional and olympic athletes. One young man a couple years back went to work as a strength and conditioning trainer for the NY Giants.

I know very well you can't do the same workout every day, but you can safely exercise every day -- different kinds of cardio interspersed with weight training, alternating arm workouts with leg workouts, alternating intense intervals with long easy work, etc. Your body will get used to the same workout over and over and it will cease to be as effective. Believe me, I know the drill and how to put together a safe and effective workout plan, and even if I didn't, I have a trainer to help. I've had several, actually, student trainers closely supervised by a core of professionals who are teaching them and checking their plans. I also know that weight doesn't disappear in a couple months.

BUT -- I HAVE A DOCUMENTABLE CONDITION THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH EXERCISE AND/OR DIET. Sheesh, you're as bad as these infuriating doctors. I had metabolism testing in a lab by a woman who is an expert doing metabolism research -- she works out at the same gym I do and did it as a favor, since it's not a service offered the public. Even after adjusting for gender, age, weight, height, body composition, etc, my metabolism was running at 49% BELOW what it should. There was no way I could eat little enough to lose weight and still get adequate nutrient into my body with a metabolism so stalled -- and the testing was done when I was already starting on the upswing.

The metabolism testing only confirmed what I knew -- that there was indeed something seriously wrong -- it could not show what had caused it. But it did a lot to vindicate my insistence all those YEARS in the face of doctors who would not listen and would not believe. For most people, this kind of testing is not available, so they have no way to prove to their ignorant doctors that there is a problem beyond laziness and gluttony. You cannot imagine their anguish when faced with yet another doctor telling them there's nothing wrong a little work on their part won't fix.

If a person's physiological condition has psychological initial causes, and part of the problem is that deep down the person feels such intense guilt and shame that it has exacerbated PTSD into adrenal exhaustion, then being blunt (esp when the doctor was DEAD WRONG) can do lasting further damage. You need to learn more about the mind-body aspects of health if you think your mental state has no effect on your physical state. Sure, if you are otherwise healthy and well and just lazy, a good kick in the pants might be just what you need. But you shouldn't administer it without knowing the patient's psychological and emotional state first.

I'd been "doing something about it" for FIVE YEARS; I've never sat around moaning and not working at it; but I knew my body well enough that I knew by the time I'd gained only 5 pounds that there was something wrong, but try convincing a health professional of that. I said to a couple of them, Do we have to wait until I am literally obese before you'll be willing to HELP me?!?? But they would just shrug and say stupid things like, I guess you just have a constitutional tendency to gain weight at this age.

Well, they were wrong, totally, completely dead wrong. And they set me back and did me a terrible disservice by not taking my case seriously just because I didn't fit their prejudiced view that anyone overweight got that way out of laziness and a poor diet. There was something terribly messed up about my metabolism. While on the one hand, many people have lousy lifestyles, don't eat right, don't exercise, I've also met quite a lot of people who DO eat right and who DO exercise who still can't get healthy -- there are a lot of environmental things messing up people's bodies as well as much to be learned about the relationship between mind and body when it comes to health.

My main point is that it is a potentially tragic mistake to make assumptions when you see an overweight person (I'm not obese, nor much more than what most people might consider "dumpy," but it doesn't help me to know that most people look at me and assume I am dumpy because I "let myself go" -- nothing could be further from the truth) that it was their own lack of character and discipline which made them the way they are. That's not only unfairly judgmental, it can be totally wrong and it can most certainly be cruel.

You see what one faces, cm? You can lay out proof until you are blue in the face, but there will still be people who think they know better than you do and who insist it must be something you are doing (or not doing), i.e. your condition is all your fault. As for me, I will never again let ANYONE make me doubt on the subject of this particular health issue. Five years of searching and fighting to be heard, to get testing I needed to show the problem for what it is (and IS NOT) and to finally start down a path of some measure of treatment. Some folks out there are not as strong, or as lucky, or able to be so persistent. They shouldn't have to be -- their doctors should LISTEN and be more willing to WORK to find a correct diagnosis. "

" Right from the horse's mouth:

BO pledges to a Planned Parenthood gathering that the very first thing he’d do as president is sign the Freedom Of Choice Act, which—according to the bill’s own supporters — would abolish bans on partial-birth abortion and parental notification laws nationwide while implementing tax-payer funded abortions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf0XIRZSTt8

Obama is challenged by ABC News anchor Charlie Gibson at a primary debate in Pennsylvania. Gibson asks Obama why he insists on raising capital gains taxes (which affect millions of American investors) even after history has proven that raising said taxes actually decreases government revenues from the taxes, and cutting capital gains taxes actually brings more revenue into federal coffers. Obama has no answer, other than to blow off all the evidence, and say that raising taxes is the fair thing to do—practical consequences be damned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpSDBu35K-8

BO does not want anyone talking about his radical associations. He’s even sought criminal prosecutions against those who have dared to speak out on issues that make him squirm. Average Americans are judged by the company they keep...

Rev. Wright
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=oousPzZ8KA0

Bill Ayers and the Woods Fund
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wI7pUMbaINI

During the CNN-YouTube debate in the summer of 2007, Obama unequivocally promised to meet without preconditions with the rogue leaders of America’s worst enemies—all within the first year of his administration.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSFSUbMWenU

And of course the race card...Obama accused Republicans of trying to “scare” voters by mentioning that he “doesn’t look like all those other presidents on the dollar bills.” At another rally he made a similar claim, adding “…did we mention he’s black?” to his interpretation of the GOP’s supposed scare tactics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZaZlCjZqpk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjRfKVwRUds

BO's accomplishments in the Senate?
Two bills—and Obama talks about them endlessly. One deals with securing loose nuclear weapons and was so uncontroversial that it passed on a voice vote in the Senate. The other created a “google for government” system, allowing citizens to track government spending.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGeu_4Ekx-o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzFOOcEQtP0 "

" FG, are you kidding me? The MSM is doing zero vetting with regard to BO.

And of course, Karl changes the subject.
To Karl and the rest of the kool aide drinking Obamabot's, BO's associations with domestic terrorists, radical Afro-centric preachers and known criminals means nothing. I guess when you don't really believe in anything, it isn't such a stretch.

Another something that hits the nail on the head with regard to Obama and his cult followers (from the Al Gore (tm) interwebs):

Obama is a brand just like any other brand. Obama the Brand has a logo, a tag line, and a song. But Obama the man is not the same as Obama the Brand. Obama the Brand talks about new style politics, while Obama the man used Chicago style politics in every election. Obama the brand is for women’s rights while Obama the man pays the women in his office 77 cents on the dollar compared to men. And Joe Biden pays women 73 cents on the dollar. Obama the brand is pro-Israel, Obama the man is not. Obama the brand touts leadership while Obama the man voted present 130 times in the US Senate. Obama the Brand claims change, while Obama the man picks a Washington Insider as his running mate. Obama the Brand is a post-racial candidate while Obama the man plays the race card at every turn, listens for 20 years to the racial teachings of Rev. Wright, and makes contributions exclusively to Trinity United Church of Christ, the NAACP and Care Africa. Obama the man and Obama the brand are not one in the same.

http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/id.1515/pub_detail.asp "

" CM/FG --> Im not a doctor but have been an athlete for most of my life. I have trained with professional athletes and trainers alike for over 20 years. For the most part, people in this country with weight problems are just fat and lazy - period. There are some who truly have obesity issues that are out of their control, but thats only a small percentage.

And weight loss doesnt just happen over a period of 2-3 weeks. You have to continuosly work at it. For some the weight does come off fast, but for most others it takes several weeks, even several months to see a difference. Depends on your body's metabolism. And with any diet, you need to stick to it. NO CHEATING of any kind. Thats what it takes. And the biggest mistake people make is eating less, working out more. You need to feed your body constantly throughout the day. 6 small meals a day is the norm. Then your body's metabolism transforms - gets used to burning food constantly therefore working constantly. The biggest mistake people make is eating a few big meals. Thats fat storage mode.

And FG - whoever told you to work out 5-7 days a week is a moron & has NO idea of a proper traning regiment. At most, you should be working out 3-4 days a week. The human body needs at least 24-48hrs of recovery time after any kind of training (varies from person to person) - especially when youre just starting out a training regiment. Also, people who just feel bad for themselves get no pity from me. Sometimes (actually most of the time) people need to hear the blunt truth, and yes sometimes it hurts and feelings are crushed - life is a b*tch! WAAAAH! So Intstead of feeling bad for yourself (whihc most people in our country are great at doing) go do something about it! My weight a few years ago got out of whack cuz I was a moron and wasnt doing the right things for myself. And it took a personal trainer and my doctor to be blunt with me to make a difference in my life...and hell if I can do it, anyone can do it. Self-determiniation, dedication to your plan, never cheat, and never give up. "

" LuvRetirement, Chris Van Note and sustain, it's both hilarious and sad that you people REALLY think that you can distract the American public with all this nonsensical blather about stuff which they care NOTHING about. Did you see the debates? Did you see the voters' polled after the debate? When McINsane started talking about Ayres and other silly distractions, the red "Disapprove" lines on the graph took a nose-dive.
But this is an old Republican tactic when you're losing--and make no mistake about it--at this point, you ARE definitely LOSING!
When you've got nothing but egg on your faces and a losing record of ruining the country, you have to manufacture controversies, pick fights, appeal to people's basest instincts. That's why the Right has been leaning on Racism, Xenophobia, and silly distracting devices like asking for Obama's public records--which ultimately will mean NOTHING. You just want to create a controversy so that you can gin up the illusion of a conspiracy to hide something.
Well now--that's something that The Right knows a little bit about , huh?
Seriously, I'm waiting for your side to ask the Obama campaign for like, his dental records, or the vet's records of his dogs. Just so you can scream "WHAT IS OBAMA HIDING ABOUT HIS GORGEOUS SMILE?!?" WHY WON'T HE TELL US ABOUT HOW MANY TIME ROVER GOT HIS NAILS CLIPPED?!" "

" I have no problem asking Obama to provide whatever records are appropriate for the public to see, and certainly, educational records are among those. I have no idea if he has actively withheld the records in that e-mail which goes around or not -- that e-mail is the only place I ever see the issue mentioned. Surely, if he were withholding vital records, we'd hear it on CNN if not also elsewhere.

McCain supporters who make this complaint about Obama are hypocrites until he releases his highly relevant health records. A new President of, shall we say, very mature years, who has had cancer? It's very relevant for the voters to have a good idea of the likelihood of recurrence, since that would leave his VP in charge of the country - ye Gods! Gives me an upset stomach just thinking about it. "

" Just for the record -- I was already doing all the right things for myself without avail, which is why I wanted my doctor to care enough to figure out what I could not on my own. Exercise for 45-65 minutes a day, 5-7 days a week, mostly in the gym, under the guidance of a personal trainer, and a carefully crafted and frequently adjusted diet devised by a nutritionist did not yield results, only extreme frustration -- here I was, doing absolutely everything a person is supposed to do to be healthy, tweaking diet and exercise in every way we could, and I had brief plateaus between gains in weight, increase in ratio of fat, and rapidly declining function. My case was NOT one of "eat less, exercise more" and DID need the help of a doctor -- but one who was willing to WORK to find the not-obvious diagnosis.

When it was found, it was not anything which could be treated by exercise, diet OR drugs, and it is not recognized by my insurance company.

I think most doctors just assume their patients are lazy, eat too much of the wrong foods and lie about it. That wasn't me, and it did me further harm by putting the blame on me when it wasn't anything I was doing wrong. Doctors need to be sensitive to such things, as there is a very strong mind-body correlation in many health issues. There is for me -- PTSD was the starting point for my eventual adrenal malfunction, so making me feel even worse about myself was the absolute worst thing a doctor could do.

If you are a doctor, longboard, please keep that in mind - that you can do your patients even more harm if it turns out their health problems are in that dynamic space between mind and body and you make them feel bad about themselves. "

" karl again said:

"sustain"--grow up."

And.... just what IS wrong with trying to obtain records that are a matter of public record? Records that would further guide us, as informed voters, in making the right choice on election day.....

Sounds like you have appointed yourself as God Almighty here....

It is truly YOU who should grow up! "

" CVN, don't you know that any time you criticize That One, it is irrelevant. The real issues are about Joe not having a plumbers license, and Not about his question. "

" No, movedsouth, I didnt check it out as I get them all the time from beleive it or not a distant relative whose spouse works for the gov't! I usually just delete or send back saying you are a racist, etc. But thought it was worth a post here to illustrate how truly ignorant a great number of Americans really are. The em addresses were numerous. When they say the public is 'smarter than that', etc., I dont feel that is true taking into mind a recent incident at a McCain rally where a befuddled old lady expressed her concern that Obama was a terrorist. I liken it to taking off your coat to reveal whats on your t-shirt and I am finding people I thought had at least a little something upstairs have on racist shirts when u thought that they lived in 2008 not 1955.

And Sustain, that ltr has been posted here b4. Grab on to the train headed for Obama land my dear poster cuz he WILL BE the next president and will hopefully rid some of the top heavys that have been raping the American public for 8 yrs!! Now are you an em fwd?

longboard315, why dont u b the big ol' grownup in the room and teach us poor little 4 yr olds how to write with our crayons...horses patoot. "

" everyone has different opinions of the candidates.
I honestly hope no matter what it doesnt turn into riots or violence.

though it is an important issue--its not one worth injury or death!

I plan to vote early--maybe today after school, just to not be out in the madness of election day! "

" nature:
I recieved that email too--after the first 3 lines I hit delete!

I dont think Muslim crime, is any higher than black crime, or white crime, christian crime, etc..
However the BAD ones do USE different tactics than most.(boom) "

" Hey Sustain: You'll find out soon enough with Karl that it is racist, mean and downright wrong to ever question "The One".

You will find no better example of the hazards of simply asking a question Barack Obama doesn't want to answer than the frenzy on the part of Obama's campaign and his allies in the media and the Left blogs to attack Joe the Plumber.

I found this on the Al Gore (tm) interwebs and it fits:

1. Thou shalt not offend The One by asking him a question. Of any kind.

2. Anyone who questions The One will have to undergo a public pillorying of a kind unseen since the Red Scare, or perhaps the Inquisition.

3. The Tanning-Bed Media will happily participate in any inquisition, as long as it keeps them from investigating irrelevant issues like Obama’s ties to the Chicago Machine, William Ayers, ACORN, or his record on protecting infanticide.

Don’t ask questions. Don’t check the records of people running for political office, but do check the records of those who dare violate Rule #1.

No dissent will be tolerated. Our political and media masters have spoken. "

" Thanks karl: I am looking into things that MY own insurance will cover, well for as long as I have it-its under the EX's job..lol..
I have the pillow and a soft neck brace, and the hard one when its real bad.
If anyone has elder family members, TRY TO GO WITH them to their doctor appts.
like I said last week, ALWAYs QUESTION, just because one has a PHD doesnt mean they are smart!

longboard: for sure I am not obese,and I probably would walk more if the sciatica wasnt an issue. I am not an exercise guru, but I have started Yoga 2-3 times a week, as per pain level.

I did put on 10+ lbs. due to meds, which I have taken 13 off, slowly with my Special K diet.
But I must have my piece of chocolate at night.

everyone: this is usually a guy thing, but get yearly checkups--if you have money to go to dinner you can get a checkup.
my gram had cancer eating her insides for years, she would never go to the doctor because of the cost.

and if you can really afford it get one of the new 64slice Ct body scans, about 850.00 but it will tell you more than any doctor can.
thats what I am saving for starting next week when I begin work for the season..
hoping I make it thru the season! lol... "

" karl again,
Excuse me for wanting to be an "INFORMED VOTER" and if you check back, I asked many things about "John McInsane" too. Right now, I'm not voting for either. "

" "sustain"--grow up.
None of that crap is important in the least.
Stop trying to create a controversy and carry water for the diversionary, paranoia-mongering camp of John McInsane.
Enough already. "

" Few things --> first whoever is writing the 2cents column is pathetic - a 4yr old with crayons can come up with something more interesting than what you consistently babble about (parking meters, etc. PUT IT TO REST ALREADY). Second --> For those with pain / nagging injuries / chronic back & neck problems theres some simple solutions to those issues: For starters, look @ your diet carefully. Are you eating the right foods on a daily basis? A daily consumption of fresh fruit, vegatables, meat/fish, grain, fiber and some various supplements (vitamins, coral calcium, fish oil, glycosomine) will make a huge difference in your well-being. Many people today are simply obese and dont take care of themselves properly. Worst thing you can put into your body - processed foods. Stay clear away from those. Next is proper exercise. Whether it be simply walking a few miles a day to hitting the gym. People should be getting exercise daily. This helps keeps your bones, muscles and joints going and helps ward off pain / arthritis throughout your life. It also helps keep weight off and keeps your cardiovascular system functioning properly. Doctors can only do so much, and many people want them to solve all of their issues. Well, fact of the matter is that they cant. If you dont take a proactive approach to overall health, then youre only screwing yourself in the end. "

" Excuse me Senator Obama, sir. Um . . . know you are busy and important and stuff. I mean running for President is very important and . . . ah . . . I hate to bother you. I will only take a minute ok, sir?

See, I have these missing pieces that are holding me up, and I was wondering sir, if you could take time out of your busy schedule and help me out. You know, no big deal, just some loose ends and things.


These things seem to either be "locked" or "not available'. I'm sure it's just some oversight or glitch or something, could you help me please find these things, sir?

Your Occidental College records

Your Columbia College records

Your Columbia Thesis paper

Your Harvard College records

Your Selective Service Registration

Your medical records

Your Illinois State Senate records

Your Illinois State Senate schedule

Your Law practice client list

A Certified Copy of your original Birth certificate

Your embossed, signed paper Certification of Live Birth

Your Harvard Law Review articles that were published

Your University of Chicago scholarly articles

Your Record of baptism


Oh hey . . . listen! I know you are busy! Is this too much for you now? Tell you what. I will come back tomorrow. Give you some time to get these things together, you know? I know you are busy, so I will just let myself out. I will be back tomorrow. And the day after...sometime BEFORE Novemebr 4th would be nice. "

" NL, I have received that em also. I haven't checked it out, I just took it with a grain of salt. Have you checked it out? "

" cm, I don't believe AT ALL that your neck is beyond the help of a chiropractor!!!!!
Please---did a DOCTOR tell you that?!
I wouldn't doubt it!
My mother wrenched her neck--for over 14 months she endured pain, sleepless nights, limited turning of her head. I begged her "Mo;m go see my old chiropractor!" She was scared to go. The doctor told her that chiro's were "risky".
She took pills after pills prescribed by the doctors; they made her feel WORSE! She got MRI's. X-Rays. Finally, after 14 months, the doctor literally told her "I don't know how to help you anymore"!
SO she finally went to my old chiro. WIthin 2 weeks she felt better. And WITHOUT spinal manipulation. He gave her a special brace and pillow to use, and within TWO WEEKS she was fine!
Doctors want your money, cm. They don't want you to go to the chiro because they know that THEY WORK!
If you're still nervous about that, I would recommend that you see an acupuncturist. All the doctors will do for you now is treat you like an ATM machine and pill dump. You're now just a walking bankroll to them. I sincerely feel this. They killed my grandmother AND grandfather with over-medicating; my mother has been fighting their attempts at prescribing pills, pills, pills, for her mitral valve prolapse, and doing just fine without them. They are really in the business of making money more than knowing how to help you.
Most importantly--get 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th opinions! Don't settle for more prescriptions, and in all seriousness, look into alternative therapies, like someone who is into rake (pronounced "RAY-kee)--sometimes they can work wonders! "

" Here is just one of several em's I am rec'g from people in VA. It is absolutely disgusting and disturbing and a sign that even now in 2008 there are people as backwards are apes!!! I replied stating the sender was a racist. I am posting it to show the fear and scare tactics republicans are sending out and how many are fwd this trash as truth.
**************************
A lot of Americans have become so insulated from reality that they imagine that America can suffer defeat without any inconvenience to themselves.
Pause a moment, reflect back.
These events are actual events from history.
They really happened!!!
Do you remember?
1. 1968 Bobby Kennedy was shot and killed by a Muslim male extremist.
2. In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and massacred by Muslim male extremists.
3. In 1979, the US embassy in Iran was taken over by Muslim male extremists.
4. During the 1980's a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by Muslim male extremists.
5. In 1983, the US Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by Muslim male extremists.
6. In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked and a 70-year-old American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard in his wheelchair by Muslim male extremists.
7. In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens , and a US Navy diver trying to rescue passengers was murdered by Muslim male extremists. ( Remember the pilot of this flight was from Richmond,MO)
8. In 1988 , Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by Muslim male extremists.
9. In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by Muslim male extremists.
10. In 1998, the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by Muslim male extremists.
11. On 09/11/01, four airliners were hijacked; two were used as missiles to take down the World Trade Centers and of the remaining two, one crashed into the US Pentagon and the other (believed to have been headed toward the White House) was diverted and crashed by the passengers. Thousands of people were killed by Muslim male extremists.
12. In 2002 the United States fought a war in Afghanistan against Muslim male extremists.
13. In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by-- you guessed it-- Muslim male extremists.
No, I really don't see a pattern here to justify profiling, do you? So, to ensure we Americans never offend anyone, particularly fanatics intent on killing us, airport security screeners will no longer be allowed to profile certain people... absolutely no profiling!
They must conduct random searches of 80-year-old women, little kids, airline pilots with proper identification, secret agents who are members of the President's security detail, 85-year-old Congressmen with metal hips, and Medal of Honor winner and former Governor Joe Foss, but leave Muslim males alone lest they be guilty of profiling.
And now for the award winning Act of Stupidity Of All Times some of the people of America want to elect, to the most powerful position on the face of the planet, the presidency of the United States of America, a male of Muslim descent who is the most extremely liberal Senator in Congress (in other words an extremist) and in his 40's.
Have the American people completely lost their minds, or just their power of reason ???
I'm sorry, but I refuse to take a chance on the 'unknown' candidate Obama...
Let's send this to as many people as we can so that the Gloria Aldreds and other stupid attorneys along with Federal Justices that want to thwart common sense, feel ashamed of themselves -- if they have any such sense.
As the writer of the award winning story 'Forest Gump' so aptly put it,
'Stupid Is As Stupid Does.'
Each opportunity that you have to send it to a friend or media outlet..do it!
Or again -- just delete if you disagree. "

" CM, not knowing where your pain is, all I can do is provide what I did to eliminate chronic whiplash I had for over 5 yrs that no doctor was able to #1 fully dx or #2 treat. We were in a severe crash where we hit a tree head on in a Volvo after the brakes went out on a steep hill in Niles. TG for the tree cuz is what revine time. Aywho, went to several mds then specialists, then two DC's then to a PT. All had same inability to help then I started slow on resistance training (nautilus/not free weight train) in a gym. After a year the severe pain and burning and neck restraint were gone. Just a story to show that nursing a prob by inactivity and meds are sometimes a contributor to the prob when in relevence to the skeletal/nervous systems. "

" thanks FG:
personally I think TOO many people trust in their doctors.
in my case I found my 'general' doctor is awesome, yet limited in what he can do or order. ITS the 'specialists' that are 'wham bam thankyou ma'm' kind!

for instance, as FG stated, did you all know an EEG is ONLY acurate if whats happening to you IS HAPPENING at the time of the test!??
if you are having blackouts, take the EEG, if you dont have a blackout while the electrodes are on your head, it comes back normal. this is almost a wasted test, waste of monies too.

I found that out ON the net! then brought it up to the specialist, which he confirmed.

years ago, I took care of an elderly man, he was on no less than 30 pills a day! he was going from the VA dr.s to his personal dr. neither READ the charts from one to the other!
At the VA hospital, he was seen by no less than 5 doctors, at the public hospital another 4 doctors, HE was high then low, then happy then angry..Not having the NET at that time, I went to the library, did some homework, consulted ALL doctors, he was down to 3 pills per day!
The elderly are the worst abused in doctor care.
Next, are young parents. I have told my granddaughters mom her pediatrician is a quack!
her response was: 'he's close to home'

The final straw -in her eyes-was his latest 'possible O.D.'--if the pharmacy hadnt caught his written error it could have been fatal. She switched doctors, took her nearly 3 yrs though.

close to home does not equal quality care! "

" Stick with it, cm -- I know exactly how you feel (in terms of doctors). Document everything, so you can show each doctor what the ones before did. Sometimes it is appropriate to repeat a test, but other times, you are just covering the same ground twice and it is a waste of time, money and your own grief feeling like you are going backwards.

Do what research you can on your own. Don't trust your own diagnosis without some kind of confirmation from test results interpreted by a trusted doctor, but do use your own guesses at diagnosis to question your doctors and suggest they check for whatever it is you think might be the problem. You can judge the doctor by his or her reaction to listening to your suggestions. If your doctor is arrogant and poo-poos whatever you have to say, or is patronizing and condescending, as painful as it is, dump the doctor and go try another one. It may take you many doctors and several years, but you have to keep trying until you find one with the dedication to service to work with you until you find a solution.

It shouldn't be so hard for people to find good health care. We should not each have to do all the legwork ourselves. We should not have to be so vigilant and persistent and questioning of our doctors -- but we do, and if we don't, we can easily end up in worse shape than if we'd never seen a doctor at all. Too many doctors are lazy - they don't want to have to actually work to come up with a correct diagnosis -- they want to take one look at you, maybe order a single blood test, then give you a pill and tell you to come back for a follow-up in a month or two. A pill for every ill and they didn't actually have to work to listen to their patients and honestly and fairly sort out the hypocondriacs from people with real problems which are hard to diagnose, to figure out what was wrong, to figure out why some treatments didn't work, to keep monitoring results closely and reassessing regularly, in short, they want to collect big fees without having to work all that hard at it.

All doctors should be "medical detectives" with a burning desire to figure out what's really the cause of their patient's health problems and to find the healthiest and most effective cure or treatment. Doctors need to actually CARE about their patients' health as if it were their own. Only then is your health care provider truly a health partner, which is what we all need.

But in this country, we'd be lucky if we could get ANY health care we can afford, let alone GOOD health care.

Sad but true. Your very best source for health issues is friends and other people. Talk to EVERYONE. Somewhere, someone will have an idea which leads you down the path to solving the problem. Your friends and relations are not trained health professionals (or not all of them anyway, maybe you have a doctor or nurse of chiropractor in the family), so don't base your health decisions entirely on their say-so, but do talk and listen to many people, follow up on their ideas as well as your own, research and read online and keep asking your doctors lots and lots of questions, while insisting on more thorough testing.

Good luck, cm, and feel free to look me up off-list (i.e. outside this forum -- you know where I work and can surely figure out which one is me) if you want some more moral support and a more personal conversation. I got/am getting through my own health problems with support from friends and I would be happy to give back and give you what support I can.

Take care. "

" The point not taken here is that the republicans voted for federal control of banking and finance. This vote took the powers of banking and financal regulation away from the states even in state banks. They got the right for the feds to regulate and control banking. They did nothing with that power as they refused to rein in the financial and banking institutions. When the states tried to control the situation they were told by the feds it was not their jurisdiction. The democrats were fighting the power of the bushie administration to NOT control the finance and banking industries. Having the power to regulate is not regulating. If you do not use that power and take it away from someone else you are not regulating. Now read this carefully before you start your rapid replies without understanding what I am saying. You know who you are. "

" Are these policeman for real?
And whats with these parents NOT teaching their kids to have respect for their neighbor and HER property???

http://news.aol.com/article/woman-89-busted-for-keeping-kids-ball/218427?icid=200100397x1211458473x1200731333 "

" I DVR'd the VIEW today, if 5 ladies are ready to kick each others butt over this election, I cannot imagine what the rest of the country will do Nov 4th!

normally I dont watch the show, well since Rosie left, but the past few weeks I have seen a glimpse while feeding the grandson lunch..
Joy & Elizabeth are hot-headed on this election!
now I am Dvr-ing it daily!

(yes, karl, I know Rosie has a big mouth, but she is funny as heck, and has a memory that is beyond the average person, her kids crafts are also amazing) "

" Karl: a chiropractor at this point would make it worse, I cannot have my neck pushed, pulled, or twisted.
I am looking into alternatives on my own.
As many that have been on work.comp. they know its a long drawn out process, today at a hearing I found out neuro #3 has been scheduled--end of Jan.2009! it was 'court ordered' in April 2008!
lol... good thing I can laugh at times about this.

I have gone up in levels of meds-this one didn't work so go stronger,etc, after a 3-month trial of the (addicted) Oxyies..that basically left me in a 'vegged out stuper'... for pain, yes it helped, but for daily living, NO!
having a child at home, I opted for daily living with pain.

My point being:
my doctor only allows 3 months then wean for Meds.that can be addicting. He is not a prescription hand out. He also does yearly testing of blood work (etc), to see if its having effects on kidneys (etc)..

You have to be honest with your doctor and they have to take the time to listen & explain to you.
If you know something isn't right, you have to be vigilant about your treatment and finding solutions.
Don't let pills that only mask the pain dictate your daily life.

MOST IMPORTANT: don't get hit in the head with a dolly/handcart!!!!!! "

" cm, have you seen a chiropractor or someone who is well versed in alternative therapies?
I don't trust a doctor in these kind of situations. "

" FG: I read the DR comments, I can totally agree with WE each know our own bodies, or hopefully do.
WE should know when WE feel something is out of whack.
Doctors should listen more and not be in a rush to get onto the next patient to bill.

in my work.comp. quest:
my neurosurgeon really thinks he was God, he actually wrote on the post-op report, I HAVE FIXED ALL CM's complaints! lol...
now how would he know that minutes after he closed me up?

because I continued to complain, I must be wrong and he is DONE with me, move onto another doctor.
The 2nd neurosurgeon, examined me in under 3 minutes, states 'I cannot help you but do not do another surgery on this'
(very helpful??)
awaiting #3 neuro...

The monthly Comp dr. I check in with, has basically memorized my every complaint. He gives me pain pills, but monitors dosage and side effects closely. without HIM, I would be a basket case! He is the only one that listens.
When going to his office do NOT expect to be in and out..and in no way could you ever become addicted under his watch!

I have spent hours looking for what might be the cause,
1. my body DOES NOT like titanium plate and screws OR
2. they had to have left a sponge in there!

Comp. wants me to go to 'pain management' I told them I am not taking a 'morphine cocktail' to make them happy!
I refuse to give up until I find out what IS wrong,
when it comes to our health WE have to speak up, and not just accept what WE know is WRONG. "

" please karl: TWO years ago,
was gas lower?
was corn cheaper?
was food cheaper?
were there this many foreclosures?
was the unemployment rate this high?

if you answered YES to any ONE of them--whine to your local DEMOCRAT!
to solve your woes=expect them to TAX YOU MORE! "

" movedsouth, "Boyfriend", when used in the connotation of attaching it to a public figure, I believe has a scurrilous aspect to it. The polite way to say it is, I believe, their "partner".
Don;t blame me for it--I'm no PC freak, but it does make you sound like you're trying to slam someone when you say "girlfriend" or especially, "boyfriend" when talking about a Gay person.
In my opinion, of course.
I guess you could have meant it neutrally. I apologize if I misread you. "

" BTW karl, is it OK to say one's girlfriend but not a guy's boyfriend. Is it domestic partner? "

" karl, if Nancy P was his girlfriend, I also would referred to her as his girlfriend. The point was to make the connection with Fannie or Freddie, don't know which one he is tied to. And that shows that he may be someone more than just someone in the neighborhood. "

" None of our business what's inside your ballot, 13579 -- but I hope you chose to oust incumbents and voted for some fresh perspectives at the local and state level! "

" o.k. so I filled out my absentee ballot, now I need a stamp to mail it back to the board. I'll get stamps on thursday at wegmans. Any questions? "

" My point exactly -- both parties have been party to making a mess of our economy. Best Congress money can buy.... "

" movedsouth, I agree--BOTH the Dumbs AND the Scums were to blame!
"Dumbs and Scums"--LOL! I salute my own humor! HA HA!
But your remark about Barney Frank's sexuality has no relevance to the discussion and just makes you look like a bigot, sir. "

" karl, I think what it shows is that BOTH the DUMICRATS and REPUBLICANS were at fault. "

" movedsouth and jonathan--what this shows is two things:
1. that attempts to unilaterally blame the Dems for this disaster is PATENTLY false, and that cutesy little partisan videos pieced together on YouTube is a poor ecuse for getting real information in hard copy documents. (Remember, the video you posted, movedsouth, also has that utterly ridiculous ending which proposes John McInsane as the new "economic messiah" backed by the explosion of "Glory, Glory Hallelujah" as he appears on screen--I actually laughed out loud when that happened! Sheesh!)
2. It shows again how corrupt and not-to-be-trusted the Republiscums are. Most importantly, it takes any wind out of the sails of the McInsane campaign's gauze-thin claims that the Dems and Liberals can't be trusted to fix the economy--like they did after the last Republiscum administration, only to be utterly, thoroughly wrecked by the Neoconservatives.
Sorry, I know this hurts, guys. You guys had bet it all on that silly video, huh? Betrayed again by your party--OUCH! That SMARTS! "

" karl, the Democrats wanted no part of regulation, maybe because of Barney Frank and his boyfriend. "

" karl you just dont get it. That article you posted regarding freddie and fannie shows it was the demscums who did not want to regulate the sub prime loans, while McCain was warning congress to step in in 2005 to regulate fannie and freddie. The sub prime loans given to people who had no way to pay them back are the main cause of the failing economy. Congress has been run by liberals since 2006, and the country has been on the decline ever since. "

" THIS ALSO IS FROM THAT ARTICLE karl. To me it looks like the Dumocrats thought everything was OK with Fannie and Freddie. "Democrats did not like the harshest provision, which would have given a new regulator a mandate to shrink Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae by forcing them to sell off part of their portfolios. That approach, the Democrats feared, would cut into the ability of low- and moderate-income families to buy houses."

The political backdrop to the debate "was like bizarre-o-world," said the second of three people familiar with the program. "The Republicans were pro-regulation and the Democrats were against it; it was upside down."Sen. Richard Shelby, the committee chairman at the time, underscored that in a statement Wednesday, saying that with Democrats already on their side, it was not surprising that Freddie Mac and Freddie Mae went after Republicans. "Unfortunately," said Shelby, R-Ala., "efforts then to derail reform were successful." "

" I saw that, Karl, and was wondering how I could boil it down to small enough to fit here -- thanks for taking the initiative!

Frankly, anyone blaming just one party or the other is part of the problem themselves. "

" EVERYONE WANTING TO BLAME THE DEMS FOR THE ECONOMIC COLLAPSE SHOULD READ THIS!
WASHINGTON – Freddie Mac secretly paid a Republican consulting firm $2 million to kill legislation that would have regulated and trimmed the mortgage finance giant and its sister company, Fannie Mae, three years before the government took control to prevent their collapse.
In the cross hairs of the campaign carried out by DCI of Washington were Republican senators and a regulatory overhaul bill sponsored by Sen. Chuck Hagel, R-Neb. DCI's chief executive is Doug Goodyear, whom John McCain's campaign later hired to manage the GOP convention in September.
"Freddie Mac's payments to DCI began shortly after the Senate Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Committee sent Hagel's bill to the then GOP-run Senate on July 28, 2005. All GOP members of the committee supported it; all Democrats opposed it.
Unknown to the senators, DCI was undermining support for the bill in a campaign targeting 17 Republican senators in 13 states, according to documents obtained by The Associated Press. The states and the senators targeted changed over time, but always stayed on the Republican side."
ONCE AGAIN, IT WAS THE REPUBS ALL THE TIME!!!
From http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081020/ap_on_bi_ge/the_influence_game_housing "

" The college students interviewed were probably for Obama, he didn't know how many states there are either! "

" The California Republican committee today is accused of deliberately deceiving voters--DELIBERATELY DECEIVING them into registering as Republiscums after telling them that they were signing a petition to provide harsher penalties against child molesters!
This just shows that the Republiscums are ONCE AGAIN attempting to orchestrate voter fraud on an unprecedented scale, not seen since the 2004 election!
Once again--this was DELIBERATELY ORCHESTRATED FRAUD--not simply the actions of a few poor people just trying to get a paycheck!!!!
Americans everywhere should stand up and demand an end to this Republiscum's desperate attempts to steal yet ANOTHER election!!! "