" I bought Farmer Guy a Schaefer Pocono 500 patch on eBay because it was an inexpensive add-on to a whole bunch of Schaefer stuff I got him for Christmas last year (best item was a metal wall plaque of dogs drinking Schaefer beer and watching a horse race, LOL!) Neither of us is into racing, so if you ever meet up with us, I think that patch has your name on it.

Yep, oldtimer, when I almost bought the house in Moravia, one of it's better features was that it was less than half a mile from the Modern Market. If you know people in Moravia who drink Schaefer, you probably know Farmer Guy, or knew his dad -- farmers of the old school from Venice/Scipio, most famously associated with the "Venice Boom," as well as their renowned homemade hard cider.

Another place Schaefer is sold is at the convenience store at the corner of North and York Sts in Auburn.

The one to have when you're having more than one -- as he usually does! "

" Karl,FG,
All my buds who drink that get it
in Modern Market in Moravia
But only drink it if you are
going to have more than " one" "

" Farmer's Gal--wow, that's very interesting about the gas tanks--I can believe it though. I DO hope that it opens again--I'm sure there are quite a few people missing their local groceries!
SHAEFFER BEER!?!
WOW! I didn't even realize they still made that Pennsylvania brew!? I used to go watch "The Schaeffer 500" Indy car races at Pocono Raceway in Pennsylvania with my dad when I was young! In fact, I swear---just today, in the mail arrived an "Official Schaeffer 500 Program" book from 1974 that I bought off eBay for $2.00!
Man--the memories! "

" Hey Karl, I think there was an issue with the underground gas tanks at the corner store in King Ferry and they couldn't afford to dig them up and replace them. I have several friends who live within a stone's throw who really miss the place. I have heard it has been bought and will reopen with new owners -- but that may just be a rumor. Anyone know for sure?

We seldom stopped in, of course, because Farmer Guy prefers Schaefer beer, which is sold in few places -- they have it down the way at Wilcox' and I think he may be the only one for whom they stock it! "

" HHP was profitable and if left alone, it would have continued to be that way for years to come. Honeywell lied straight to each and every person there. They stated we cannot cannot continue to produce in the states because they were not competitive. Granted their products cost more, but the service this company brought to their cutsomers is very rare these days and made them competitive as a result. It's HON's loss now, because there will be no ambition within that company after they have been dealt the hand like that. P.S. - Who are the Sabres? hehe. "

" As I said, I'd rather be dead before I*'d vote for McCain & his witch. She should be home with her kids. What a nutcase. I can't wait for the V.P. debate on Thursday. "

" Byrne Dairy just off Grant Ave is where I got my $3.46 gas -- their electronic sign said $3.50, which was still better than any price I'd seen out driving yesterday, but when I pulled in, it was only $3.46 -- a pleasant surprise.

G0Sabres -- where've you been? Honeywell is hardly the first company to pull this stunt, nor the last. Hanes recently announced they are moving production to Asia as well. That's why I keep saying there should be a financial penalty applied to any American-owned company which moves production out of the country, plus an extra tariff added if they try to sell their goods back here, otherwise the incentives are backwards. "

" A sad couple of days--just yesterday I went down to Ithaca, and found that the little gas station/mart down in King Ferry is closed!
I used to stop there to eat while working on the Cayuga County Riders' Hare Scrambles course which is right down thee not far away. Bummer!
And my girlfriend just called and told me that the little coffee shop on main street in Elbridge where we would stop on our way to Syracuse is now closed, up for sale!
Two more victims of this lousy economy!
:( "

" The Byrne Dairy on the arterial has had really good gas prices for a week or better now. Nice to see them lower than most in Auburn. "

" cm, that's where we should be WHEN WE GET GAS. "

" cm -- of COURSE military people also sometimes lose their honor -- that's why there's such a thing as a DISHONORABLE discharge. Just as it is possible for someone in the military to do something dishonorable which gets them booted, it is equally possible for a person with an honorable discharge to do something later in life dishonorable enough that were they still in the military, they would get that dishonorable discharge.

People in the military are still just people, with foibles and failings like the rest of us. No matter what they may like to think, they are not on some elevated plane which makes them better than mere humans. And you can find heroic acts of courage among those who are NOT in the military as well.

That's just nonsense.

I bought gas yesterday in Auburn for $3.46 "

" The worst thing to happen to Hand Held Products was Honeywell. That company has lied to the people there right down the line. And the final slap in the face to the people that made that place what it is was to move the products to China. They are a cold, and uncaring company, and couldn't care less about the people that work there. It's a real shame that they bought that company. "

" cm, I seriously think that you have confused "respect" (for Service to the country" with "Honor".
A military man will always deserve "respect" for serving his country, but can lose his "Honor" just as anyone else can.
John McCain is proof of that.
On a "MSNBC Predator Files" show a year ago, there were a few military men--serving and/or retired--who were trying to "hook up" with what they thought were 12-year-old girls.
What would you say about their "Honor"?!?! "

" wow karl
I am surprised you didnt make a statement on the letter to the editor. "

" movedsouth:
I just saw gas tonight 3.59. "

" uhhh...what exactly has mccain said he was going to do, and gave details? other than how to place his thumb in his bum...nothing.

and don't call me an obama supporter, i won't be voting for him either. "

" Sorry karl but a Military Man/Woman NEVER LOSES THEIR HONOR!

The list is too long to repeat who/what people say about Obama!

Even if the war stops-that is not enough money for Obamas dreams.
I don't think he gives DETAILS of his plans, because he doesn't have any plans.
If the boy-toy of Camelot follows suit, I'm sure the kennedys have a few in mind, it will raise taxes!

The bailout will be another tax burden,
and I don't see it as an 'economy booster', which means others will fall and more bailouts will be needed!

Taxes will still rise! "

" From the article to which AJ provided a link: ""ill-informed" (read duped) borrowers" -- my point exactly.

Lots more important points in this piece, but that little side tid-bit jumped out as needed to be repeated in the face of those who continually blame the victims of bad mortgages. For example. "

" A must read....

Grand Theft America.
Financial Crime of the Century

by Stephen Lendman

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=10364 "

" Thanks for the additional info, unknown -- it does not surprise me a bit. "

" Coach, once again I'll say that John McCain is a man completely DEVOID of "Honor" or principles.
Period.
He's trying to run his flip-floppy campaign crap by all of us by trying to exploit his time in the war. I am NOT impressed.
You think he has "leadership skills"?!
Look at the loony he chose for VP--have you been paying attention, coach? What does THAT say about his "judgment?!
That fact is, he chose Palin for the hoped-for POLITICAL advantage--NOT because of any "qualifications" she might have! Have you seen her pathetic interviews? ARE YOU PAYING ATTENTION?!?!
Good for you that you helped evacuate Saigon. My uncle was a tunnel rat and involved with PsychOps. A wonderful Human Being and a survivor like you. I DO respect veterans. But I don't automatically confer upon them some automatic "respect" just by virtue of their "being". It would like automatically respecting a priest.
Whatever "honor" McCain had is LONG GONE.
I read a great article by John Dean. He describes McCain as;
"John McCain has no problem whatsoever being a nasty SOB if he thinks it serves his purpose. McCain is an ends-justify-the-means fellow."
He decribed John McCain's relationship with noted Conservative Barry Goldwater saying that "Goldwater knew a political opportunist when he saw one and did not like [McCain]"
Goldwater called McCain a "carpetbagger". He also called McCain a "show horse" who cared more about his political career advancement than the state he represented.
Everything McCain has done in this campaign shows his opportunism.His slimy waffling and reversing-of-course. His cynical scam of going to the bailout talks and then sitting there, mute, while watching Obama asking all the questions so that he could position himself correctly after-the-fact. Then he tried to blame Obama and Congress, when HE was the one who apparently went in there and $crewed the whole thing up to try to benefit his political campaign! He's so duplicitous and wishy-washy that he makes me sick. And it makes me sick that people like you--a veteran--can support him, apparently simply by virtue of the fact that you both "shared a war". PFFFT!
Dean goes on to say that "McCain loves power and what it can do for McCain"
I just HATE people like that!
BTW< Coach; for your information, I'm against health care for illegal aliens too. And I am a registered "Liberal" only so I can say it and p*ss off you Conservatives. But my true politics are really a lot more "left-center" than you might imagine.
How is Obama going to pay for the social programs? I DID answer that , and I'm happy to do it again--STOP THE DAMNED WAR!
Lastly, I'm so used to being bashed for being a "Liberal" that your Liberal-bashing comments go right by me. "

" Biden's explanation of why it is necessary to help the financial industry. "When the stock market crashed, FDR got on the television and didn't just talk about the, you know, the princes of greed. He said 'Look, here's what happened.'" Hoover was president and the medium was radio. "

" I agree with stevedallas each person should make their own decisions, but I am so sick of the bashing and not sticking to the issues. Regardless of who one supports, anyone who has the courage to step into public light should receive more respect then what I have read. I just wonder if karl or some of these other bashers would have stayed in the Hanoi Hilton or went home ahead of others. But I suspect that these bashers never spent anytime defending their country. "

" If a single person(or child) that reads this two cents, lets what idiot people on here write sway there vote for anything in anyway, There all ready idiots! "

" karl I have read all your comments over the last few months. Do me a favor we all know you have no respect for John MCcain and Sarah palin thats your right. Now you call all republicans "scum", I must say you are a true liberal, bash and present no facts. I asked you awhile back how do you think the Obama social programs are going to be paid for. NO response. I for one am against giving Illegal aliens health care. But all you do is bash. John MCcain forgot more about honor then you will ever know or have. By the way I served my Country for 15 years and am proud to say I served in the Saigon Embassy on the last few days and participated in the evacuation and saw the horrors that people who cannot defend themselves go through. Liberals run their mouths but please do not take away their lexus or cushy homes. I thought liberals were for the rights of all. What about those who need our help. Odviously you go deaf when John MCcain speaks. You sir are a true liberal. Speak loud and do nothing. "

" How about the chutzpah of McCain and Palin trying to characterize the response of Palin to a VOTER on the street the other day as "gotcha journalism"?!
CAN YOU BELIEVE THEIR ARROGANCE?!
Do they really believe that the American people are so stupid?!
Apparently so!
They are like a comedy team already!
Unbelievable! "

" FG, While in college, one of my classes was a Machine Design class; one of the things that they taught us was a formula whereby you would enter the diminsions of a considered part, and ran it, and it would give you the approxmate life of the part. They told us that the principal users of this was the auto industry. You KNOW they were designing in failure in the parts!!! "

" Get a clue karl "

" movedsouth, when a person's OPINION is so far removed from reality that it smacks of Right-Wing-inspired delusion, it sadly falls to me to smack 'em upside the head with a verbal riposte designed to enlighten and clarify.
It's for the children who may visit this site and be swayed into an unrealistic appraisal of the situation by the likes of your boondoggle! "

" karl again, you have to be the most closed minded person ever. People have OPINIONS that may differ from yours, but that does not call for insulting them. You say there is enough blame to go around WITHOUT blaming the Dems, you must believe they are not without fault. For the Dems to call for a vote without having enough votes, that was stupidity. Keep watching your MSNBC and CNN, that way you don't have to take off your blinders. And please tone down your insults, it really shows the class of person you are. "

" In my post last nite I misspelled (what else is new) and didnt mean Pelosi for OJT. I meant that freak McCain picked, Palin. She has GOT to go!! And I keep forgetting that Bushie boy got it passed regarding our 401k's that are not FDIC insured but housed in money market accts are now safe w/no ceiling. 401's where u are buying company stock is not safe however - but diversify!! When I remembered that and reheard this am, it was like taking a valium. and call me a tard but when I bought my Chrysler, I thought I WAS buying American! when I had to have my tires looked at, hubbie opened drivers door for us to read made in Canada? "

" Both the dems and the repub are to blame! They are there to help better the USA! Work together idiots ! "

" Lot of class karl!!!!!!!!! "

" HOORAY I'm glad to see the bailout did'nt go through.So easy for Bush to do this just at end of his term and leave another mess for OBAMA.Whats wrong with this guy,maybe he should be bailing us out of this mess with his own easy earned money that he accumulated in the last 8 years . "

" The economic mess has been made by the two party system -- they are too much alike to point fingers at one party or the other, they share the blame. "

" Remember, I grew up just outside Detroit, so don't think you're telling me something about the American auto industry. Here's an example -- the guy who lived next door to one of my best friends designed engines for Chevy (or GM -- now I can't recall). One of the mandates he had was to put the pieces together in such a way that it most required the owner to take the car to a dealer to be fixed -- so the owner could not fix it him/herself nor could the neighborhood mechanic. My mom had a car like that -- you couldn't change the oil without removing the air conditioning, a major job. She never had money, so she never had an oil change -- never, couldn't afford it. That meant the car had to be replaced sooner. Either way, the dealers got an extra cut.

With that kind of philosophy behind design, no wonder we turned to "foreign" cars, most of which are at least partially made right here.

The American auto makers also gave outrageously inflated wages, most particularly to their management. When things bottomed out in the early 80s, as I was graduating from high school, a lot of families were toast -- both parents working for the auto industry for years, having worked their way up to lower-or-middle management, or a dad who had seniority on the line -- and suddenly there was no job. That huge ostentatious house, the gas guzzling prestige car, the horseback riding lessons and the pocket money that the kids all spent on booze and drugs -- suddenly POOF! it was gone. The bubble burst and there was nothing of substance to shore it up.

Hubris. Hubris, arrogance and lousy quality. And it has taken those companies another 25 years to figure out they have to stop making those huge gas guzzling "prestige" cars and get with the program -- they have to make better quality, more fuel efficient vehicles at a market-competitive (i.e. lower) price. That means paying your executives and middle management less inflated wages and putting more into the quality of the product.

That isn't to say that all "foreign" cars are made to high quality either -- after all, many of them are made right here.... "

" movedsouth, your stupidity and ignorance betrays you.
The Republiscums controlled the House AND the Congress for nearly 6 years and in that time had plenty of time to lay the unstable foundations of this whole mess.
Your attempt to lay it on the Dems is hilarious--more so that you probably actually BELIEVE that?!
ROTFLMFAO! "

" justventing--yeah right, maybe we'll all buy Hemi-powered pickup trucks and Hummers to drive Johnny to the Little League Game so we can show how "tough" we are--at 7 mpg!
PFAAAAW! "

" justventing:
A total American car would be great!
However they do not exist anymore-well not new ones.

In 94, we bought the 95 Chevy Blazer, and along with it came this print out of where it was all made.
The body may have been American made but most of its pieces and parts were made from all over the world! "

" FG: the microwave is huge--its actually one that goes above the stove.
It has lots of buttons that I haven't used!
everytime the power goes out and i have to reset the clock I also have to reset the date--
I have yet to understand this?

Can I scheduled it to defrost burger on Oct 5th @ 4pm????

I wonder... those that have one of these Micros--how many have put burger in it TODAY to defrost Oct 5???

Maybe I should read the book someday!!
lol..
(after I find the book, I should read it) "

" Thanks to all of you who bought foreign cars, you contributed to our mess. Maybe now you'll get smart and buy American. "

" FG: she explained it well on oprah.
basically if any of your dollars are NOT in any kind of FDIC insured, you are in danger of already losing, losing more, or losing it all.

http://www.suzeorman.com/

should I say lucky me I am broke? lol.. "

" I cannot stand pelosi--she is so arrogant! I wish the media would find a good scandal on her!
there is no way she is squeaky clean! "

" IF the banks anyone has money in-thats FDIC insured then its safe. I was just watching DVR of suzie orman on the oprah show.
If everyone does panic-which many are-it will only get worse before it gets better.
My neighbor has lost 30grand in her 401K already, her consultant said to stay put-the market will return. If she draws out now she will lose all of the 30 grand and get ZERO back..
however I am more skeptical-I said move some to safer ground just in case.
The biggest concerns are those with 401K about to retire this year..they are taking a beating with no chance of recovery!

my dad grew up in the huge stock market crash--thats why he kept all his money in a truck in the house for years on end!
Of course it was terrible when a scumbag robbed him of 60 grand, good thing he had most in CD's then..well on the other hand BAD because in the end it went up my sisters nose! "

" The Citizen's voting booth on the front page looks a little biased... "

" Of course, if we did, the likihood of that person being impartial is next to nil.

I think we can safely say that the blame is bipartisan, some bits more to one party or the other, but they've been letting corporations, financial ones in particular, do mostly as they please for longer than just a couple administrations, and everyone in power has had a hand in, even if it was just by doing nothing.

I still go back to Spitzer, for all his stupid, arrogant flaws -- who was on the right track with his state-by-state drive to pass laws to prevent predatory lending and other bad banking practices -- because they weren't doing what needed doing at the federal level. First the OCC shot those laws down as not in the authority of states to pass, then the OCC did nothing themselves so that financial institutions were in effect given free reign to make bad loans, then when Spitzer publicized this fact in the Washington Post, they toppled him. Who knows how much it would have helped if those laws had been allowed to stand? We were already in pretty deep, but a little sooner and that many fewer people who be in hot water today, and that much less money would be involved in the mess. "

" It's a bandaid which might not even work, and mostly just to bail out the people who put us in this mess -- it's not to help people with their mortgages or gas prices -- it's just to let the greedy b*stards who put our whole country in a jam get off the hook themselves. I think we are toast whether they pass a bail-out or not, so let them pay right alongside the rest of us -- why should these big financeers get out of the mess they created?

At this point, the advice is to not exceed the max guaranteed by the FDIC for savings ($150,000) and/or retirement ($250,000). Me, I've got no where near that much in the bank (witness my worry over my furnace!) and I've only had a decent enough job to start saving for retirement for 4 years -- I have less than $20,000 in there. It's people who have scrimped and saved for longer to have something in the bank who should worry first, I'm thinking -- though I'll be the first to admit I know diddly about investments or finances in general. I just know that panicking will not help -- either disaster is coming or it isn't, and there isn't much I can do personally to help avert it except avoid freaking out and bringing it on earlier and more heavily.

Do we have any financial geniuses here who can explain things for the layperson? "

" Welp, I am officially on the freak out wagon with the market plunging over 777 points - the largest drop EVER!! Plus the crisis hit home today when Wachovia, the financial institution my company has chosen to house our 401k's was bought out by Citibank. I really dont understand HOW the bailout was supposed to help this crisis except more of the same trickle down tard mentality. So maybe its good it d/n get passed? I think all it really is is a bandaid to boast confidence in the stock market temporarily. What is gonna crash us is if Americans begin to panic, which I am in the early stages of, and pull cash savings out of banks and if even more cant or refuse to pay their mortgages. To post blame here or there is completely irresponsible now, Clinton this, Pelosi that: got to admit Karl, she spoke the truth. The name Bush is synonymous with failure so lets not forget Neil and the savings and loan fiasco in the elder Bush administration. And this Pelosi chick literally makes me want to vomit with her OTJ training - she acts like she has lived in a vacuum her whole life! I am feeling like a worker on 0911 many floors up and the sup comes by and says all w/b ok. All these FA's on TV etc say sit tight? So should we? "

" Clinton supplied the flame, and the Democrats controlled the Congress, let's blame George. "

" Didn't Clinton have something to do with this? Then the housing boom. And the big one, GREED. "

" movedsouth, there's enough blame to go around without blaming the Dems.
Nancy Pelosi was stupid to shoot her big mouth off BEFORE the vote.
But the Repubs apparently had a temper tantrum too. And how about McCain's HUGE faux pas? LOL! I LOVED that!
Hey ms, guess what?--The stupid, corrupt Republiscums are the ones who enabled, oversaw, and caused this crisis.
Wanna talk about THAT?
I didn't think so.
Sometimes even the fire department can't save a house when it's fully engulfed. "

" karl again, maybe you missed the news, the bailout failed. Did you see the Democrats blame the Republicans, how stupid. Too bad the House isn't controlled by the Democrats, Ooops, it is. "

" Boy I hope John McCain has a foot fetish, cuz right now he's sucking on his!
Did you hear the BS partisan slam he tried to make against Obama this morning, and how he tried taking credit for the bailout passing?
Man, how embarrassing for him!
Boy, I'll bet he's got toejam in his dentures! "

" Hey Farmer's Gal--nice to put a face to the name! Pretty sexy pose there, Butkus! LOL! "

" A $350 microwave, what, was it gold-plated! I've never paid more than $40.... "

" I get a lot of stuff on eBay. Friends of mine got a like-new black hot tub for under $300 -- it was just across the border in Canada, so they borrowed a truck and picked it up -- just made it under the amount over which they'd have to pay to bring it across, so it only cost them $297 plus gas.

It's going to be a while, I fear, since the furnace man just came up and told me he couldn't properly clean the unit because a part is warped and he can't get some other part out. The warped part, he estimates, will cost $900-$1,000 -- if I can get it for my older model. Farmer Guy is digging up an expert friend to give me a second opinion -- because guess what -- I don't HAVE $1,000 nor does he, not now, not after just forking out over $1,100 for fuel oil, $300 for wood pellets and another $125 or so for the cleaning (which he's still doing, as best he can without being able to remove the nozzle, I think he said it was). I had reserves -- had to use them for fuel, and now I am out. With car insurance to pay this weekend too.

I would have been glad to continue renting and letting a landlord deal with this stuff if there had been any place between Aurora and Ithaca in my price range and away from manure. "

" just before we seal the wall during remodels, we put the 'days' newspaper in plastic wrap inside the wall.
I said the next room I will add coins, maybe someday it will make someone rich! hahahaha "

" I see the House voted NO. Scary as it is, I think this is for the best. The whole situation has been precarious and scary for a long time, but people did not want to see it, while others did not want it seen. What's coming into the open will be ugly -- but perhaps it will be REAL -- then we'll have to deal with it. Too bad we can't make those who created the problem be the ones to PAY for it. "

" FG: we would decide the room to be done-then survey all our needs for it, get prices, and buy stuff monthly..When we had 90% of our supplies, we demo'd and re-did the room!
we now have 1 bath, 2 bedrooms done,and mine is 1/2 done(one wall left to repanel).
I wouldnt mind the paneling so much if it was lighter, or even matched! Each room is different shades of dark!

On the list of allready purchased items, laminate flooring, jacuzzi bathtub, wallpaper for 2 rooms,sliding glass doors, some decking and 1/4 of house siding..

Lowes and home depot have huge mark-downs every SAT morning..that how we bought the tub. A local church has an auction every year-sliding doors were 5.00. At a flooring store close-out, we bought 4 12x14 carpets, padding, plus tiles, and laminate flooring for 600.00.

I always keep an eye out for close-down stores and auctions.
Even at Lowes, ask them if they can mark it down a bit more, I bought a 350.00 microwave for 100.00..they wanted 150.00.

Also if you get a day off-check out the storage unit auctions, you would be amazed at the finds! They are listed in the paper or just and ask them when is their next auction.

Like most women, I watch the DIY channel too much, that channel is not for couples therapy!
with the EX gone, I just need a he-man that likes to use his hands! lol... "

" BTW, I have temporarily changed my photo on the Pigskin Payoff game. It's not the hot photo Karl was looking for (maybe some day, but don't count on it, Bud!), but there I am showing off my bruises back when I was playing football. Maybe next time I'll use the photo of my leg with 40+ staples and swollen like a marshmallow over a campfire.... "

" P.S. Karl -- the former owner was an air traffic controller -- sure hope he wasn't bipolar, LOL! Actually, aside from the mess they left in the pellet stove, they were impeccably tidy, esp. for a family with 3 little children, and by all accounts, very nice people. I am sorry I didn't get to meet him, but they had to move because the dad's job moved, so they were gone 2 months before the closing. "

" Right-oh, movedsouth -- thanks for the clarification.

As for the previous tenants -- a young couple with 3 children under the age of 5 - they seemed very nice, and they were covering up even more hideous colors. There's a stack of polaroids (remember those?) which seemed to be passed down with the house showing the "remodeling" done by the tenants BEFORE the young couple -- those folks were here a long time. Most every room is done with two different busy-print wallpapers, in browns and rusts -- like cowboys on horseback below and flowers above. It made the young couple's choices look infinitely better.

Farmer Guy's lives in the house which was his parents and grandparents before them (the great grandparents lived in a house on the "north farm" a couple miles further up the road -- that house burned to the ground from a lightening strike in the summer of 1958). His mother did a major remodelling job in the 60s and covered every surface with knotty pine -- well, wall-to-wall beige carpets on every floor, including kitchen and bathroom, and knotty pine on ceilings, walls, stairwells. It's hideous, so I sympathize, cm.

Meanwhile, this place isn't bad, and I can dream of someday -- and put away a little bit of each paycheck. In the first couple years, that savings will go to pay the fuel oil bill, LOL, but in 10 or so, I can start thinking about non-necessary changes to suit my style. My brother is an architect, and he has done many apartment building kitchens -- and is looking forward to designing for my private home some day. "

" Farmer's Gal--sounds like your former owner had a manic depressive condition? "

" I too have been wondering about the heavier truck traffic thru Auburn. Day and night I see Weitsman Scrap Recyling tractor trailers screaming down Metcalf and Lake Ave. Sometimes three or four one behind each other. I can't imagine where they are going too heading towards the lake. "

" FG: isnt your house a rainbow? lol..
I am wall-to-wall paneling and I hate it!
I wondered too 'what were they thinking' when we first moved in.
my bedroom -under the paneling- had purple 'n pink walls with a black 'n white checkered floor!

I have been trying to lighten the house up..

thanks nature..I will take items to store, a good idea to match better colors.. "

" FG, I was against the bailout right from the start. The comment about helping the oil companies was for humor. "

" Now you're catching on, movedsouth -- the bail-out -- even IF it works -- will not trickle down to you and me, though it sure will come out of our pockets. You can bet that oil companies won't drop the price to the consumer just because they get a piece, if they do.

Greed goeth before a fall yet again (pride has nothing on greed!) Yet the wealthy execs of these financial companies will come out unscathed, just you watch - they get us to pay for their mistakes either way, playing as they were with our financial futures. The rich insulate themselves against loss and make the masses pay. As AJ says, socialism for the rich.

carlred -- a good rule of thumb: There's a reason nature makes things smell bad. Rotten food smells bad so we won't eat it, for example. Some sneaky toxins slip by unsmelled, but aside from Limburger cheese, seldom do you find something that smells bad which is GOOD for you.

cm and nature -- you should see the colors in my new house, LOL! The previous owners had some very bizarre ideas about colors. Some are very nice, some are hideous, most notably the screaming pea green in the smallest bedroom -- painted over at least one layer of wallpaper. I have forest green with pine trim in this room, a sort of terra cotta in the living room, a medium gray (yuck) in the "family" room with the pellet stove, pale cream/yellow with light sage trim in the formal dining room, periwinkle with darker blue and purple/blue floral trim in the kitchen (just try to find periwinkle dish towels, go ahead, I dare ya!), then a color called "Red Sumac" (a light red with orangish, a darker more red version of the terra cotta downstairs) up the stairs and in the landing, pale pink in my otherwise navy jacquard bedroom, bright little boy blue in the remaining bedroom, yellow and white in my upstairs bathroom (which I have done in all sun/moon/stars on a navy ground) and finally, the piece de resistance, the halfbath on the ground floor, in after-dinner-mint pink with green trim and pink/green/blue/yellow floral paper above the mid-way point. Ye gods! The laundry room seems to be a plain utilitarian off-white (though they have mint-green curtains and sponge painting in the closet with the washer/dryer).

Someday, after I have paid off more and seen a few more raises at work (provided the economy doesn't collapse and take us all down with it), I'll re-do. I tend to like the deep, rich colors, but more on the furniture, drapes, rugs and framed art, with the nice refinished wood floors showing, and generally more pale color on the walls. I'd have forest, burgundy, chocolate, teal, navy, plum, etc -- but not on the walls. Well, except the forest, which works well in this room.

javajava -- exactly -- the theory is that American Indians, currently called Native Americans in PC circles and to be respectful, came from Asia across the Bering Strait into what is today Alaska then down to the mainland. I can remember reading that there is a point at which it is only about 5 miles of water across, and there may have been either a land or ice bridge at some time in the long-ago past.

Yes, nature, the owners of Seneca Meadows and such-like places are a big part of the problem. How they manage to convince the local authorities that opening up our communities to be their trash dumps would be economically advantageous to us is beyond me. It just means the countryside is now just as polluted and messed up as the cities have been for centuries. Again, it's greed.

And, as usual, it's hard for communities to fight corporations when the current Supreme Court interpretation of our Constitution gives corporations more human rights than it gives to natural human persons, such that if your community wants to pass a law which might impede their ability to make ever more profit, you will be ruled to be interfering with their Constitutional rights (!!!) -- no matter that their "rights" are destroying your property, environment, health, peace of mind, etc.

But when trucking companies come back with this nonsense about how they'll charge us more if they have to stick to the routes they were meant to take (and pay tolls to cover the damage their vehicles do to the roads!), think about this: They are already costing us that money -- In our communities we have to pay to repair damage done to our roads which weren't made to support lots of heavy truck traffic. We pay in terms of the loss of property value. We pay in terms of noise pollution, increased exhaust pollution, and increased risk of accidents involving our vehicles, our property, our children, and our pets. So we are already "paying more" -- better we should pay the price by choice if we decide to buy products they are hauling (which won't be the case for garbage haulers!) than we be forced to involuntarily pay the costs I list above and more. "

" and I am also thinking if nothing is standing out in color for paint then just go neutral and as I said try a bold colored rug on your tan or try a bold colored valence/curtain...have a good day.... "

" CM ty for asking for advise - I get that all the time - a frustrated interior designer I guess. Anyway, I am a bold color person but these old vics kind of demand that. To me sounds like the oak wall bottom and tan carpet are kind of the same type of color family - but I am basing this all on thought. If wall to wall carpet and not ready to change then maybe a space rug under your coffee table w/some red or dark blues would help bring out the furniture. And as far as the top to paint? All I can suggest is to take a pair of jean shorts to rep the blue furn and a khaki shirt to rep the oak panelling and start grabbing some other clothes to c which different color may compliment it....GL! "

" Looks like this package will NOT help any homeowner with their mortgage. Maybe it would be better to let the financial deal with their own problems. "WINNERS

Wall Street and the banking industry: They are the biggest winners. Scores of banks and other financial institutions faced with going under stand to gain a lifeline that should allow them to start making loans again.

Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke: In just a few months, they have remade Wall Street. If the plan helps to get the economy moving again, they may be remembered for having kept the financial crisis from spreading throughout the economy.

Borrowers: If the bailout works as intended, it will help anyone trying to borrow money -- for cars, student loans, even to open new credit card accounts.

LOSERS

Taxpayers: Even with a plan, negotiated at the last minute, eventually to recoup bailout losses from the financial community, taxpayers could be on the hook for a lot of money.

Homeowners in trouble: People faced with foreclosure or those who have lost their homes get little help from the agreement. And it would do little to halt the slide in home values that is one of the root causes of the economic slowdown.

Top executives at troubled financial institutions: The proposal would limit their compensation and keep them from getting "golden parachutes."

(McCLATCHY NEWSPAPERS, THE ASSOCIATED PRESS)" "

" Another theory regarding the Native Americans: They came from Asia, before the Ice Age. "

" hey nature: I want to paint the living room. It is half-walled with oak-colored paneling on the bottom and lighter on the top with tiny flowers, tan carpet, furniture is blue.
Any good ideas of color???

I was looking at Lowes, got some paint cards, but nothing is standing out.

There is no 'theme' in the room, only walls covered with family pics. I dont want bold like red, or too girly.

I know you do alot of remodeling-maybe theres a color or two I should look at? "

" movedsouth: I paid 3.69 yesterday, I only put 20.00 in but that should get me thru the next 10 days.

babysitting grandson Mon-Fri, so other than run the 4th grader to school and pick her up, I pretty much stay home! "

" Aj: they are not MY numbers--just an email going around..

it would be wishful thinking-the tax payers would get paid back,
one thing I have learned if you loan money to family & friends or the GOV says its a tax for XXX years,
just kiss it goodbye!

If you let it leave your pocket to theirs it is easier to consider it gone, less stress on wanting/needing it back..
IF you do get it back--then simply be happy! "

" cm, it appears your numbers are incorrect.

First, the proposed bailout is for $700 Billion. Based on your numbers, the bailout of AIG only would be $425.00 for each taxpayer, assuming 200,000,000 taxpayers. The total of the proposed bailout would cost each of us 200 million taxpayers a total of $3500.00.

What they are not saying is that the bailout will require into the trillions. They are scamming the public yet again. Like the illegal and massively costly war in Iraq. They love socialism when it is for the rich.

I say let them fail, or make darn sure they are re-regulated, and make sure that should those getting the aid must pay it back to the taxpayers, with no funny accounting and very strict oversight. Sure, like that's gonna happen.

Frankly, it looks like this country is toast. Our strong economic engine has to a huge extent been shed over the last three decades, and the only thing propping us up has been the willingness of foreign countries to finance our debt, which noone will touch now. "

" As long as we are on the subject. Has anyone notice that many more trucks are driving on Havens Ave in Auburn? I think I would like to start a petition to stop or reduce it? "

" Thanks, Farmer's Gal, for your observations on corporate agribusiness and spraying liquid manure. I've often wondered, how can anything that smells that bad be good for us? It sometimes permeates the air throughout the city of Auburn. Heaven help the economic-development department if a business investor drops in on such a day! We need a serious debate here on the so-called benefits of corporate farms over reasonably-sized, working farms. We have lost so many jobs, and a valuable way of life, as well! "

" This is part of a ltr I directed to the meeting in Syr for nonattenders (aka I have to work) regarding the truck traffic. This post is for all u naysayers that dont think Auburn has anything to say about the matter (sorry for the length):

"We live on a residential street in Auburn. The surrounding towns and our residential streets are precious because they are our homes. When houses were originally purchased, we were not aware at the time we were gonna be living on an interstate. Truckers always use the lame threat that they are gonna raise the prices - like we the consumers are the enemy! Your threats and anger s/b directed at your elected officials. What the common run truckers dont seem to comprehend is we, the complaining population, are yakking about is the trash trucks and Seneca Meadows. If truckers had ANY sense they would be going after them and their so called form of free enterprise. Try to remember back if truck traffic was even an issue b4 Seneca Meadows. The man that runs that place and the haulers are ruining ALL the small villages and main streets in and around the Fingerlakes. Dont threaten or look down on us because we thought our 'hoods were supposed to be nice places for children, squirrels and the elderly to live peacefully when u should be banding WITH US against SENECA MEADOWS and the trash that it is bringing in!!!!! How narrow sighted and devious Seneca County officials were when they got the ok for Seneca Meadows. All other surrounding county officials s/h/demanded a study on the impact this would bring. U cant travel on any road in the Fingerlakes, its not just Skaneateles but Watkins and Aurora and yes even Auburn that are suffering because of TRASH haulers. Direct your anger appropriately!!" "

" I just paid $4.099 for gas, at one of the stations that HAD gas. I hope if they pass this bailout package they have some help for the oil companies so we can get some relief on gas prices. "

" I recieved this email today--a good laugh,and nice dream! lol:

I'm against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.

Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a We Deserve It Dividend.

To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+.

Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..

So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billion that equals $425,000.00.

My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a We Deserve It Dividend.

Of course, it would NOT be tax free. So let's assume a tax rate of 30%.

Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes. That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.

But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket. A husband and wife has $595,000.00.

What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family?


Pay off your mortgage – housing crisis solved.
Repay college loans – what a great boost to new grads
Put away money for college – it'll be there
Save in a bank – create money to loan to entrepreneurs.
Buy a new car – create jobs
Invest in the market – capital drives growth
Pay for your parent' s medical insurance – health care improves
Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean – or else

Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.

If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of trickling out a puny $1000.00 ( "vote buy" ) economic incentive that is being proposed by one of our candidates for President.

If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bail out every adult U S Citizen 18+!

As for AIG – liquidate it.
Sell off its parts.
Let American General go back to being American General.
Sell off the real estate.
Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.

Here's my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn't.

Sure it's a crazy idea that can "never work."

But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!

How do you spell Economic Boom?

I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion
We Deserve It Dividend more than I do the geniuses at AIG or in Washington DC .

And remember, The Birk plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because $25.5 Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam. "

" No, FRESH manure IN SAFE QUANTITIES is organic and safe and a very good alternative to chemicals -- agreed absolutely.

LIQUID MANURE is NOT. Methane is deadly poisonous in a strong enough concentration, and you'll find it is full of all kinds of other things they sweep out of the barns as well -- lime and antibacterials they spray on the cows teats, and other cleaning agents. Continued exposure to the fumes from liquid manure causes a whole panoply of health problems, including permanent brain damage in extreme cases. And there was that whole Amish family who DIED on the edge of their manure pit -- from the methane fumes.

The bottom line is that the guidelines for spreading, which in themselves are inadequate, are not enforced. I know this firsthand so don't try to tell us otherwise. That means that these big CAFOs can put on as many cows as they want, keep them chained indoors their whole lives, and just keep shoveling their sh*t into pits where they steep it until it is as nasty and dangerous as it can be, then they slather it on their fields inches thick (again, I have seen it inches thick time and again around here -- way in excess of what is supposedly allowed - and the DEC refuses to even come look because then they might have to do something about it).

The CAFOs have more animals than their own land can bear, even overloading it the way they do, so they go around begging other farmers to let them spread on their ground. Again, I have been there time and again to hear it first hand.

Non-CAFO land is totally unregulated, so I sat there and counted trucks one day 2 summers back, then looked up the truck's capacity on the manufacturers' websites, got the acreage from a satellite map online, and did the math -- over 830,000 gallons on less than 40 acres in a day and a half on baked soil that had not seen rain in weeks. 3 days later it poured and all that sh*t went rolling off the hard soil into the water supply, including my DRILLED well, which was polluted with e-coli.

I have a good friend with the USDA in VT whose job is to approve (or not) the CAFO's NMPs -- Nutrient Management Plans, or the amounts of manure they are allowed to spread on a given field for a given crop. She took my figures and told me that the amount was way in excess of what would be allowed (even using the Cornell figures for this state) for even the most nutrient-hungry crop ever grown (they call it "nutrient up-take.")

My family and I had to move away because we were all sick from the repeated and frequent exposure to way too much liquid manure spread on way too little ground. It may SOUND like a good and natural plan, but it's no good if CAFO owner's don't use moderation -- but they are too interesting in ever-increasing profits to care about destroying the environment and the health of their neighbors.

Just look at Willet's and their lawsuit -- all you have to do is read what they say to the Press to see their attitude towards neighbors and "stewardship of the land" -- PFAH! And they weren't even the ones who were involved in making my family ill -- they are just the most glaring example of many in this region.

Now, human waste is full of diseases -- hepatitis, AIDS and HIV and anything else a human can have. It's also full of traces (which add up) of all the drugs we take -- viagra, flomax (you know, the one that says in the ads that it's not safe for females to even TOUCH the pills?!??), hormones, anti-depressants, anti-psychotics, meds for bipolar disorders, etc. What they are spreading on fields includes all kinds of cleaning products too -- no good for us to be ingesting either. Just think about all the things people flush down the toilet or wash down the drain -- you want that stuff in your FOOD? Regulations only require they check (which the seldom bother to do even that much) for only something like 8 heavy metals -- and the rest they just let pass -- like everything which passes through us and/or goes down our drains. No sir, that is NOT a healthy, natural thing to put on fields where our FOOD is grown. "

" Auburn is not the destination -- it's further to the west, outside Seneca Falls. "

" Why do people here have such a problem with the new parking laws, you CAN'T be that stupid. People around the world are able to follow these laws, people in auburn CANNOT be this stupid. "

" Farmer's Gal, I beg to differ. That is what helps the crops grow.

Why shouldn't human and animalwaste be placed on fields, it is a GREAT fertilizer AND IS ORGANIC.

It is MUCH MUCH BETTER THAN THE CHEMICALS THEY WOULD OTHERWISE SPREAD.

Get real. "

" Auburn really can't complain about the big trash trucks going through it, as Auburn is the DESTINATION of the big trash trucks. "

" Looks like we may get the bailout. NOT A GOOD MOVE. This is part of the tentative agreement. Not bad for a $700B package. "The legislation would place "reasonable" limits on severance packages for executives of companies that benefit from the rescue plan, said a senior administration official who was authorized to speak only on background." SAY NO TO BAILOUT. "

" The big trucks about which we are complaining are not local trucks bringing local produce to local markets. They are trash haulers bringing garbage produced primarily in the NYC-NJ area to dump at Seneca Meadows (what a misnomer!)

If it hadn't been for the teamsters, as a nation we would have put more into supporting and improving the infrastructure for rail transportation of good across country, which is much more fuel efficient, and when properly maintained, it's safer too. Then we would only have smaller local trucks bringing products from the rail centers to the stores, decreasing traffic, decreasing wear and tear on the roads, decreasing danger to pets and children, decreasing noise, pollution and disruption going past our homes in rural areas and using up less precious fossil fuels.

If it weren't for all those big trucks, maybe we would eat healthier locally grown foods, supporting our local economy, instead of trucking from seaports, food grown in foreign lands, often under conditions which do not meet our health and safety standards, at prices which undercut our local small farmers. "

" I was in Target the other day, and the same comments kept being repeated:
"already? it's not even October! Can you believe this?"

....Christmas items, 4 aisles full !!! "

" if it wasn't for those big trucks think about were your food supply is going to come from or who's taking your trash out or where you got the supplies to mow the lawn ,shovel ,rake etc.and thats not half of the traffic "

" Horseradish: Despite growing up in suburban suburbia outside Detroit, I have no problem with REAL farm life. The fresh smell of cows is sweet and musky and perfectly tolerable. But liquid manure steeped and aged until it is brimming with bacteria and methane and other bad things is another story. Human waste should NEVER be used on fields where food for people or animals is grown, much less sewage sludge, full of pharmaceuticals, cleaning chemicals, diseases, heavy metals and more.

I do have a problem with the destruction of our health and environment caused by CORPORATE AGRIBUSINESS -- which is NOT farming. "

" One theory is that Native Americans came to this continent across the Bering Straight -- you know, up there where Sarah Palin says she can see Russia from her office window? No one knows for sure, but the Kennewick man, who is undeniably caucasoid, is older than the oldest known Native American remains. Due to legal loopholes, his remains were claimed by Native Americans and now are hidden away and kept from testing which could further prove that they might not have been here before the first white man. "