" Gee, cat got your tongue MS? lol... "

" And lastly, a quote from Palin I just found:

"We need to come to the defense of Southeast Alaska when proposals are on the table like the bridge,”

Gov. Palin said in August 2006, according to the local newspaper,

“and not allow the spinmeisters to turn this project or any other into something that’s so negative.” The bridge would have linked Ketchikan to the airport on Gravina Island. Travelers from Ketchikan (pop. 7,500) now rely on ferries."

Chew on that for a while, MS. "

" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZOpS7YDBEM&feature=related

Watch this video, MS, and then tell me with a straight face that she did not lie.

This is part 3 of her convention speech.

It is as clear as day. "

" Palin deliberately decieved the american public when she stated at the convention that she said no to the project because she refused to take pork barrel spending.

That is a lie to me and most people. Maybe not to you - you have lower standards as a rethuglican supporter.

http://political-buzz.com/2008/09/03/full-text-of-palin-convention-speech/

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=convention+speech+%2Bpalin+%2Bbridge+%2Bpork&fr=chr-divx "

" movedsouth--"Show me where Sarah Palin LIED about stopping the bridge. She was originally for it and then stopped it. I don't think she lied."
Sheeesh!!!!
JUST TURN ON THE TUBE!!!! SHE'S LYING ABOUT IT EVERY AT EVERY SINGLE STUMP SPEECH SHE MAKES ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL!!!!!!
gaaaawd!!! "

" OK AJ I posted my source for the 87.7% You talk about several sources, just post where you got the 20% and 1 in 3 figures if you can. The core numbers "seem" to come from---could you please be a little MORE VAGUE? If Sarah Palin said she never favored the bridge, than she would be lying. She said no thanks to the bridge (for various reasons) although it's leaving out the facts for her decision, it's NOT lying. "

" It wasn't OK for Bill Clinton either -- I was never a fan of his. You are still trying to put people into neat little boxes -- "Democrats and Liberals" over here, "Republicans and Conservatives" over there. Some of us want nothing to do with either. "

" FG a question "it is NOT OK for the President of the United States to regularly exhibit such a lack of self control in public," Explain Bill Cintons lies about affairs with all the women? "

" Look, MS, she stopped the program AFTER the public outrage and Congressional failure to fully fund it. She didn't have much of a choice because the MONEY WAS NOT THERE. GET IT?

It's simple - she lied.

On McCain, there is nearly a 20% chance he could die withing his first 4 years in office, and that increases to a 1 in 3 chance for 8 years. This does not take into account his cancer problems, the stress issues related to the job, his father and grandfathers' premature deaths.

There is also the nagging and highly probable likliehood he could become incapacited as president due to alzheimers, heart attack, stroke, cancer, etc. etc.

All in all, not a pretty picture.

I did not get my info from just one place, though the core numbers seem to come from insurance and SSA tables.

just google "mccain +dying +odds" and you should get plenty of resources.


The thought of Palin as president is actually more frightening than GWB. The more I read about her, the more dangerous she seems. This woman is a nutcase that has values that are totally antithetical to core American values, while pushing a dangerous religious agenda. This woman has no right to be a heartbeat away from the presidency. And McCane has no business being that heartbeat. "

" AJ I DO NOT REMEMBER THE SOURCE FOR 95%---DO YOU GET IT. Is it that much different than 87.7%? Show me where Sarah Palin LIED about stopping the bridge. She was originally for it and then stopped it. I don't think she lied. Show me that she lied or leave it alone. Even in your own post, you stated she stopped the bridge. For financial reasons the bridge was stopped. WHEN DID SHE LIE? Understand this 87.7%, that I can and link, 95%, I cannot. Do you really believe there is that much of a difference? Or is it that you cannot stand the 87.7% probability that he will live through his 4 year term? I'm sure you will come back with attacks rather than produce facts. "

" MS, YOUR reading comprehension is a problem. I asked you where on TV you heard it. No comprende, senor?

Regarding Palin, she is a lying hypocrite. Face it. She is not the reformer you think she is. She loves pork barrel spending when it's earmarked for her state, unless as in the case of the bridge, it becomes an embarassment. She lied, pure and simple. "

" AJ, did you get and understand my questions? Would you care to respond with something that makes sense? "

" AJ, live journal made reference to the society of actuaries. If you have a better source, PLEASE POST IT! All you can say is where did you get the 95% from. I think I explained that, maybe you can't understand, reading comprehension. If you cannot link different stats, admit you are wrong and let it go! AJ wrote "Obama spokesman Bill Burton came back with fighting words. "Despite being discredited over and over again by numerous news organizations, the McCain campaign continues to repeat the lie that Sarah Palin stopped the Bridge to Nowhere," he said." He also wrote THE FACTS: Palin did abandon plans to build the nearly $400 million bridge from Ketchikan to an island with 50 residents and an airport. But she made her decision after the project had become an embarrassment to the state, after federal dollars for the project were pulled back and diverted to other uses in Alaska, and after she had appeared to support the bridge during her campaign for governor." AJ, did she NOT stop the bridge project? I know, I'll get the same old bashing and no answers to the questions. SOA society of actuaries, is it not a reliabre source? "

" AJ, OK I DON'T HAVE THE SOURCE FOR 95%, IS IT THAT BAD THAT I SUPPLY A SITE FOR 87.7%? IF YOU ARE ONE THAT IS GOING TO SPLIT HAIRS, PLEASE POST A LINK TO WHERE I'M THAT FAR OUT OF WHACK! IF YOU CANNOT DO IT PLEASE STOP THE CRAP YOU ARE POSTING! "

" movedsouth wrote on Sep 9, 2008 12:49 PM:
" OK AJ, it was something I heard on TV. Here is a site showing 87.7%. http://meep.livejournal.com/1749682.html I didn't want to pick facebook or any other crap. YOU PEOPLE that say that Palin is just a heart beat away from being president, remember so is Biden. Aj, so make me a lier for 7.8%! It's certainly a lot better than you people that just attack the post rather than to respond to it! "

" AJ why is the 87.7% is not right? Did you NOT read the link? Listen only a JERK would listen to fauxnews.com!!!!!!!!!!!! "

" Gladly, MS, as soon as you share with us where you got the absurd 95% stat.

It is amazing that anyone could get away with spouting that crazy number and having anyone believe it. That's why I am inclined to believe it was Fox News. They are known for "spinning" (lying) to an unsophisticated audience who'll believe anything they tell them. "

" AJ, POST YOUR STATS! "

" cm -- it's OK if you or I talk that way and express frustrations and so on -- it is NOT OK for the President of the United States to regularly exhibit such a lack of self control in public, nor for a Senator, for that matter. A President had to be a diplomat, among other things, a person of finely-tuned tact, so as not to start an international incident with his mouth!

I'm not arguing whether Chelsea Clinton (or Amy Carter, or any number of other presidential offspring) were attractive -- that's not the point. The point is having good judgement to know what is -- and what IS NOT -- appropriate for a Presidential candidate to say in public. Doesn't Jesse Jackson get slammed for this all the time? Yes, and deservedly so. So should McCain. He doesn't have the sense of a flea as far as appropriateness, tact, diplomacy and good judgement are concerned.

Same applies to the temper. The President of the United States is not an ordinary job for an ordinary person. It is a high-stress job which requires the person not to react under stress, but to always keep his/her cool and remain diplomatic, no matter what. It requires a VERY COOL HEAD for carefully thinking through potentially volatile situations, and a really cool head to be able to think them through fast and on-the-fly at times -- not to blow off the first frustrated words which come into your head without thinking and try to undo the damage after the fact.

You and I can afford to be wise-mouths. The President of the United States cannot, and MUST NOT. John McCain does not have the temperment to be a SAFE candidate for President. "

" Well, MS, aren't you going to tell us where you heard the 95% number which you believe(d)? "

" AJ, fauxnews.com WOULD NOT HAVE THAT %. So PUT that somewhere else! "

" Not a lot of difference between Facebook and LiveJournal, except LiveJournal users tend to be a bit older. "

" FG: when I have more time i will read the links..
however,cussing is nothing more than a form of anger..and which we all do/have done..
I can see where one is trying hard to make things better/different and after constantly being shoved into a corner, one would get highly angry!

chelsea was not pretty--lets be real..a bad joke to say in public--yes..but I also wondered why her mother 'who had to know' this must have bothered her child emotionally wouldnt have her attend a 'makeover' chelsea was never primped as I thought a Pres. daughter would be.

sometimes I have been a wise mouth--when asked a very stupid question:
DAH are you serious? Here's your sign!

yet I agree there is really never a stupid question--when in doubt always ask!
I think because I deal in retail--at times customers really make me wonder how did they ever graduate? "

" So, MS, which station was it that you heard the 95% statistic. It is so far off (as is the 87% statistic you quoted) that I can only think it would have come from faux news. "

" OK AJ, it was something I heard on TV. Here is a site showing 87.7%. http://meep.livejournal.com/1749682.html I didn't want to pick facebook or any other crap. YOU PEOPLE that say that Palin is just a heart beat away from being president, remember so is Biden. "

" movedsouth wrote on Sep 9, 2008 11:27 AM:
" AJ, McCain has a 95%+ chance of making it through his 4 year term. As for Palins qualifications, let's see Governor, community organizer. But remember we are electing the PRESIDENT. "

Good advice MS - you should heed it.

Out of curiosity, where did you come up with this interesting 95% statistic? I'm guessing you heard it somewhere on faux news, or you pulled it out of a hat, or somewhere else. "

" AJ, McCain has a 95%+ chance of making it through his 4 year term. As for Palins qualifications, let's see Governor, community organizer. But remember we are electing the PRESIDENT. "

" Joe Graney wrote:

"Finally, Sarah has PERSPECTIVE. She has a husband who is a blue collar worker. She is a hockey mom. She has an 18-year-old who is about to be deployed in Iraq. She has an infant with Down Syndrome. And yes, she has a teenage daughter who is pregnant. Sarah is a real person. We often complain that our elected officials are “out of touch.” Sarah Palin is not, by any stretch, out of touch.

Palin is a maverick. A conservationist. A Republican in the Teddy Roosevelt mold. And a mom. Indeed, McCain made a bold, compelling and historic choice."

Palin may not be "out of touch", but she is most definitely out of her mind. A republican in the Teddy Roosevelt tradition? More like the Bush 1 and 2 tradition if you ask me, only even worse, given her propensity to shove her religious beliefs down people's throats.

I'm not sure they could have found a less qualified running mate than Palin. She has no experience that qualifies her as president - don't forget McCane may not last through his first term, she lacks diplomatic skills (not unlike Bush or McCane, is ill-tempered like McCane, and is under investigation for abusing the power of her office. Everything WE DON'T need. She is a most dangerous choice, and not compelling at all, Joe. "

" Flip, flop.

"Fact Check: McCain ad leaves out the story behind the story of the Bridge to Nowhere"

"THE SPIN: Called "Original Mavericks," the ad asserts the Republican senator has fought pork-barrel spending, the drug industry and fellow Republicans, reforming Washington in the process, and credits Palin with similarly changing Alaska by taking on the oil industry, challenging her own party and ditching the bridge project that became a national symbol of wasteful spending.

Obama spokesman Bill Burton came back with fighting words. "Despite being discredited over and over again by numerous news organizations, the McCain campaign continues to repeat the lie that Sarah Palin stopped the Bridge to Nowhere," he said.

Burton said McCain would merely carry on supporting President Bush's economic, health, education, energy and foreign policies, and that means "anything but change."

THE FACTS: Palin did abandon plans to build the nearly $400 million bridge from Ketchikan to an island with 50 residents and an airport. But she made her decision after the project had become an embarrassment to the state, after federal dollars for the project were pulled back and diverted to other uses in Alaska, and after she had appeared to support the bridge during her campaign for governor."


http://www.theconservativevoice.com/ap/article.html?mi=D932MU100&apc=9008

Gee, are they saying that McCain and Palin are both liars? Wow, what a revelation, eh? "

" McCain's temper: Here's an article I found on a quick-n-dirty open internet search which highlights several specific examples of temper and of really poor judgement making completely inapprpriate jokes in public, and also of nasty sarcasm in faux apologies for his behaviors, compounding things. There are also a few testimonials by colleagues, particularly in Arizona, on his temper, sarcasm and nastiness. None of these behaviors are appropriate for a President and diplomat.

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2006/8/30/123006.shtml

He is noted for his use of profanity, exploding at colleagues and screaming at people over the phone. He has alternately denied having a temper and admitted he struggles with keeping his temper. His reputation for explosive temper dates to before his time as a POW. At a GOP fund raiser, he made this joke: ""Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly? Because Janet Reno is her father." Now, that may bring a chuckle to some folks, but insulting his opponent's daughter as ugly and implying the former Attorney General was both ugly AND lesbian -- in public -- is NOT tactful or diplomatic and are totally inappropriate in public. He showed TERRIBLE JUDGEMENT as to appropriate behavior. I don't care for Janet Reno, but if I were running for President, I'd have sense not to say something like that in public.

Here's another quick-hit example of a fella reporting on his own first-hand witness of McCain's sarcastic and undiplomatic behaviors:

http://blog.oregonlive.com/mapesonpolitics/2008/04/ive_seen_john_mccains_temper.html

In this piece, the reporter tells of a speaking engagement in front of a conservative group to which McCain commited, and leter regretted, because they gained a lot of attention as anti-gay. Instead of taking it as an "opportunity to encourage a conservative group to be open-hearted and tolerant, ...[h]e worked his way through a crowd of reporters as quickly as he could, sarcastically turning aside their questions. When asked if he was concerned about speaking to a group like the OCA, McCain replied, "No, are you?" When asked if he was worried about being labeled anti-gay, he said, "I don't think I need to respond to that stupid question."

You want this guy talking to fellow world leaders like that?

And here is one more, with specific examples of his outbursts:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2008/02/17/2008-02-17_john_mccains_temper_gains_notoriety.html

Dubbed "Senator Hothead" in several publications, here are examples from this article of McCain's outbursts (against his own Republican colleagues in the Senate):

"F--- you!" he shouted at Texas Sen. John Cornyn last year.

"Only an a------ would put together a budget like this," he told the former Budget Committee chairman, Sen. Pete Domenici, in 1999.

"I'm calling you a f------ jerk!" he once retorted to Iowa Sen. Chuck Grassley.

With Cornyn, he smoothed things over quickly. The two argued during a meeting on immigration legislation when Cornyn complained that McCain seemed to parachute in during the final stages of negotiations.

"F--- you. I know more about this than anyone else in the room!" McCain reportedly shouted.

Cornyn chuckled at the memory of what he called McCain's "aggressive expressions of differences."

Personally, I don't see anything in the above to make me chuckle.

John McCain -- a very BAD choice as a leader of this country. "

" Thanks, Owasto. BTW, I type really fast so I'm just flash by the blogs and back on with my busy life, which I have in spades outside the forums.

The temper has been traced, at least as far back as his days as a POW. If I have time, I'll dig up some specific examples -- or one of the folks who agree with me can pipe up with some of which they know. "

" McCain Palin 08 GOOOOO all THE WAAAAAYYY! "

" Did everyone forget bomb, bomb, bomb....
bomb, bomb, Iran? This guy is a loose cannon and not fit to be president. Did you also forget McCain-Feingold? Look it up. Forget Palin just look at McSame. He says we went wrong the last 8 years but he is proposing the same things Bush has done for 8 years. "

" Just an independant observation: McSame supports the Iraq disaster that has made an impact toward bankrupting this country and ruined our standing in the world. Tax cuts to the wealthy, not the middle class, using 9-11 language for his own political ploy, attacking Obama with lies, etc.
At least Obama is fresh, with new ideas vs. McSameasBush. McSame could have recieved more votes 8 years ago when Bush ruined him, but he's not the same today. This country was in great shape 8 years ago, then the worst policies in history were implemented by an administration considered worse than the Nixon days by Nixon's own pals. "

" Obama/ Biden equals more welfare and slide toward socialism. Palin is like so many Cayuga County people who go to church, pay taxes love their family despite flaws. Nutcase? Farmer Girl needs to get a life and spend some time off of the blogs writing her manifesto. "

" karl again, McCain has stated that the past 4 years has not worked. Lets not focus on the VP, we are electing a President.Abuse of power is an allegation. The trooper supposed tasered a 10 yr old kid. Nothing wrong with drinking in a patrol car. Again, McCain said the past 4 years didn't work, he is a maverick. "

" karl: all of congress should 'under investigation for ethics violations'
not to mention their morals and values are NONE!

I havent a clue as to why everyone keeps talking about McCains temper--where has he had one?

And because Obama hasnt been caught having one 'yet' does not make him less human--we all have a temper!

Palins daughter will be 18 soon--she is NOT a baby having a baby!
'little house' days girls were married by 16! in other countries it is the norm to be married and have babies by 14! "

" Yes, McCain's choice was a "wise one" if you want a completely unqualified person a hearts-beat away from the most powerful office in the world.
One who has already shown a tendency to abuse power.
One who has been called out by her former professional colleagues as inflexible, arrogant and stubborn--just like Bush was.
One who is under investigation for ethics violations.
One who is completely out-of-touch with mainstream America on social issues.
One who is a radical religious Fundamentalist who will further erode America's already-failing grades in Science and Technology.
One who was chosen as a gimmick rather than as a serious pick.
People should remember that what is at stake in this election is MORE OF THE SAME.
MORE WAR
MORE ECONOMIC DISPARITY AND TAX BREAKS FOR RICH CORPORATIONS.
MORE RELIGIOUS CORRUPTION OF GOVERNMENT.
MORE "PERSONALITY" IN THE WHITE HOUSE INSTEAD OF REAL LEADERSHIP.
It never fails to amaze me how easily people forget the misery of the last 8 years, for a pretty face who can glibly throw a snarky insult.
Boy, Henry Mencken said it best:
""No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public."
Sad but true! "

" I am well aware that Obama has short-comings, and he also has areas where I disagree with him strongly. But he has more diplomacy and tact for dealing with foreign policy than McCain, and he isn't a hot head, determined to get us into unwise wars and keep us there.

When you say "They are all different" I am assuming by "they" you mean all the candidates -- McCain, Obama, Palin, Biden, Nader, Kucinich and all the rest. Yes, they are all different, and I don't much care for any of them.

And yes, absolutely, ALL the candidates have "handlers" who tell them what to say and how to spin things so as to best appeal to the voters, and there is no way to know how much of that is sincere and how much is just PR, just candidates trying to make the right impression to convince us to vote for them.

Earlier today I ran across one of my favorite children's books -- The Saga of Erik the Viking, by Terry Jones, of Monty Python. It's not silly or Pythonesque, but rather a very compelling set of short stories demonstrating virtues worth emulating. My all-time favorite is called "How Erik and Thangbrand were Tested."

Erik and his men are stranded on an island in a hard winter with no food, and they argue whether to follow Thangbrand to seek food elsewhere, or to stick out the snows in their barren camp with Erik. They decide to have a contest to see who is the better leader. (Can you see where I am going with this?)

Thangbrand is puffed up with pride at the thought that he might have not only all the men but also Erik himself following him, so he is determined to outdo Erik in the competition.

Thangbrand shoots his arrow so powerfully that it is embedded in an oak tree right up to the feathers. Erik says he can shoot his through the tree. No one believes him until he shoots it through an oak apple and into the tree behind. Thangbrand has a strong arm for the bow, but Erik has cunning.

Erik splits a whole tree stump down to the roots with his sword. Thangbrand smites a boulder with his sword, cracking the huge stone in two, but also ruining his sword.

To test their bravery, Erik puts his hand in a flame until the hair on his arms is singed. Thangbrand puys his whole arm in the fire, and holds it there until his fingernails turn black and is flesh starts to burn before he pulls it out.

Erik sums it up this way:

Could it be possible you were going to follow this man? He has a stronger arm for the bow, but he lacks cunning. He is a mighty swordsman, but now he has no sword. And his foolish pride has cost him his good fighting arm. How far would you have gotten with him leading on such a journey as you propose?

"I am not your leader because I have the strongest arm for the bow, or the mightiest sword, or even the bravest heart, but because you have learned to trust my judgement, and know that even when I am wrong I speak for the good of us all and not for pride."

McCain and Palin have each shown significant slips of judgement that make me more than a little nervous. Obama is no saint, and I doubt he would "always speak for the good of us all" any more than any other candidate, but he has not shown the depth and level of lack of judgement that McCain has shown, and he has the tact and diplomacy necessary for dealing with the leaders of other nations, where McCain would be a bull in a china shop.

When the china shop includes triggers for more and more war, you do not want a bull for President, any more than Erik's men needed Thangbrand as their leader. "

" FG, just an observation, why do people keep bringing up Sarah being a mayor and not bring up Obama being a community organizer? They are all different and have good and bad points. And they say what they feel will get them elected. "

" So, when John McCain drops dead of a heart attack due to a fit of uncontrolled temper because he isn't winning every war he starts, Sarah Palin, an equally loose cannon with no more experience than a couple years as governor of a remote state and before that, mayor of a town of 7,000, will be President of the United States. I don't which of the two of them is scarier.

(The mom who thinks abstinence works as the method of birth control even after her unmarried teenage daughter gets pregnant has "perspective?")

I don't like Obama, but I'll vote for him to keep the other two nutcases out of the White House. "