Two Cents

Saturday, August 30, 2008 12:08 PM EDT

Hillary supporters, most likely Democrats or left leaning, should be appalled by this ploy to put a woman on McCain's ticket in hopes we will vote for any woman, even if we don't think she is a good choice. Would Hillary leave a four-month-old infant with Down's Syndrome behind while she goes out on the grueling campaign trail?



For your information about the truck traffic, the trucks are supposed to go up the Arterial. Some of the trucks that you see on South Street are the trash trucks that are going to the Seneca Meadow.

I never hear anything from the mayor. At least we knew we had a mayor when Tim Lattimore was in office, but this guy, Quill, you never hear anything from him.

Will the S.U. Dome be renamed the "creampuff" on the hill? Time will tell !

I don't understand yet what the problem is with the parking lot at Bonca's. It's certainly an improvement over what the parking lot was like with the Pioneer.




Two Cents will be updated online as new submissions are called or e-mailed. To contribute new Two Cents items, please call 253-5311 ext. 292 or e-mail twocents@lee.net.

The Citizens' Say

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There are 143 comment(s)

chris van note wrote on Sep 4, 2008 8:51 AM:

" OBAMA = JOE THEISMAN'S LEG

PALIN = LAWRENCE TAYLOR "

cm wrote on Sep 4, 2008 8:48 AM:

" Bristol (born 1990), which means sometime SOON she will turn 18..

TEEN pregnancy is more like 13-14-15-16,
the concerns are to attempt to slow down the early years.

everyone's blaming 'mom' when the truth of it is if a girl WANTS to have a baby, no mom in the world can stop her! "

hmmmm wrote on Sep 4, 2008 8:42 AM:

" Excuses Excuses Excuses,Always Excuses to not drop gas prices at 105 a barrel and they found another loop hole not to drop the prices of gas,Guess there quarterly profit just wasnt enough TOTAL BS "

chris van note wrote on Sep 4, 2008 8:41 AM:

" AJ and Karl are all flustered. Sarah Palin is more of a "man" then they are.
They fear. They hate. They squirm.

Great line from the speech last night:

"And since our opponents in this presidential election seem to look down on that experience, let me explain to them what the job involves. I guess a small-town mayor is sort of like a ‘community organizer,’ except that you have actual responsibilities.” "

morals wrote on Sep 4, 2008 8:40 AM:

" After reading all the two cents I think that Karl and AJ are the same person.How can you agree so much.Have a Blessed Day. "

movedsouth wrote on Sep 4, 2008 8:39 AM:

" If anyone can tear themselves away from the RNC, Obama is going to be on The O'Reilly Factor at 8PM tonight. "

hmmmm wrote on Sep 4, 2008 8:34 AM:

" Anyone catch a glimpse of the mess in front of Rickys- on W Genessee st its pathetic,garbage,broken glass ,weeds and has been there for quite some time apparently,the sidewalk our children have to walk on to get to school. "

AJ wrote on Sep 4, 2008 12:14 AM:

" Karl, you didn't say hypocrisy, did you?

Well, get a load of this. Looks like Palin is re-defining the word, every time we turn around.


.....

Building the Myth

Working at her city computer, Palin also sent three e-mails to Randy Ruedrich, the state’s Republican Party chairman, complaining about several endorsements she did not receive.

Ironically, as chairwoman of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission, Palin reported Ruedrich, a fellow commissioner, to Gov. Frank Murkowski’s administration, accusing him of an ethics breach for conducting work for the state GOP on government time.

To obtain evidence of Ruedrich’s alleged malfeasance, Palin hacked into his computer, an ethical lapse in its own right. In January 2004, she resigned from the commission in protest over what she billed as corrupt practices.......

Full story here:

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2008/090308a.html "

AJ wrote on Sep 3, 2008 11:40 PM:

" I was worried there for a moment - I thought you might be an imposter and did something with the "old" Karl. Whew! Glad you're OK. But then, how DO we know you're actually the REAL Karl? Hmmm... LOL.. "

quiveringthigh wrote on Sep 3, 2008 9:31 PM:

" I woud hope that "Karl again" is a nicer, less political person, but it could be a Jeckyl/Hyde thing. Anyone have any non political things to say???? "

Farmer's Gal wrote on Sep 3, 2008 8:22 PM:

" I figure something went wrong with Karl's old account. Stuff like that happens, but I sure recognize the same Karl as "karl" in "karl again...."

So, the bucket of urine turn out to be old-fashioned chamber pots for tenants living in an attic space without modern plumbing. Or they may even have been composting toilets. Maybe they were short-term guests in overflow space. We simply don't know the details, which have been made to sound bizarre and might not be so weird at all if we knew the whole story.

IF a kid actually "says no to sex," abstinence works. But TELLING a kid to just say now is not terribly effective, as a large enough percentage will do it anyway -- and if they do it without contraception, there will be unwanted pregnancies, and hence the "just say no" style abstinence program doesn't work -- esp. when it is paired with cut-backs to educational programs about contraception, STDs, etc.

Man, time for me to hit the hay. "

karl again... wrote on Sep 3, 2008 8:18 PM:

" Get a load of THIS one, y'all!
ST. PAUL -- "Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, the Republican
vice-presidential nominee who revealed Monday that her 17-year-old
daughter is pregnant, earlier this year used her line-item veto to
slash funding for a state program benefiting teen mothers in need of a
place to live.
After the legislature passed a spending bill in April, Palin went through the measure reducing and eliminating funds for programs she opposed. Inking her initials on the legislation -- "SP" -- Palin reduced funding for Covenant House Alaska by more than 20 percent, cutting funds from $5 million to $3.9 million. Covenant House is a mix of programs and shelters for troubled youths, including Passage House, which is a transitional home for teenage mothers."!!!!!
Howz THAT for HYPOCRISY?!?!?!?!? "

karl again... wrote on Sep 3, 2008 8:16 PM:

" dd, all I can say about your 4:14 PM post is that if Obama is a "nut job" for believing in God, then I will vote for a nut case before I would vote for an extremist or a fanatic--which Palin CLEARLY is.
Not only that, but the sheer fact that Palin was nominated--despite her utter lack of experience, the lack of vetting, the extremeness of her view--shows that the "plan" as it were in the McCain camp was obviously to fall back to an old tried-and-true tactic; cozy up to the extremists of the Religious Right, and watch the money and votes come.
This time, however, I think it's pretty clear that they've gone to the well once too often. This woman is manifestly UN-qualified to be Vice President.
Did you know that, with HER OWN SON going to war in a few weeks, she told a reporter that she hasn't really paid attention to the war in Iraq! I mean--come on!
But you know what's sad and frightening?!
That Evangelicals will throw all that to the wind and vote for this dizzy broad because she believes that the Earth is only 6,000 years old, and that her Downs Syndrome son represents "perfection"?!
If you're not outraged, you SHOULD BE!!!
THIS IS EXACTLY THE TWISTED PLAY THAT GOT US IN THIS POSITION FOR THE LAST 8 YEARS!!!! "

karl again... wrote on Sep 3, 2008 7:42 PM:

" LOL! I knew when I had to create another account that people would be like, "What?"
What happened was I decided to re-format my computer, and when I came back online, I couldn't remember my password fo rthis site, because my computer had always "remembered" it.
So I just created a new account.
Kinda funny though I think--"Karl...'AGAIN'!" ( probably what half of you think when you see my comments! LOL!
Actually, I should have made it "'NOT' Karl again!" LOLOL!!! "

dd wrote on Sep 3, 2008 7:12 PM:

" So, AJ, what happens if you cut yourself on your throwing star, and spill a 5 gallon bucket of urine on it? Aren't you scared of infection? Ahhhhh, yes, you'd undoubtedly douse the cut with the plastic expolsives to counteract the urine....ingenious! I mean, if you just happen to have those things laying around like 80% of all other households. "

movedsouth wrote on Sep 3, 2008 6:18 PM:

" Why would anyone ever think they would ban "karl"? There was never any obscene language, personal attacks or insults. It just can't be. "

interested wrote on Sep 3, 2008 6:11 PM:

" Thanks dd. I don't keep that sort of thing around ANYWHERE, especially not where I live. I also don't know anyone that does...that I know of. I don't think that is normal. It's actually very gross and unsanitary. Eww. "

AJ wrote on Sep 3, 2008 5:43 PM:

" Karl again, what happened to the "old" Karl? Just curious. They didn't ban you did they? Or are you an imposter? What is going on here? "

AJ wrote on Sep 3, 2008 5:39 PM:

" DD, I was nice enough to explain it to you, you should at least have the courtesy of reading it before you make a derisive comment - it makes you look stupid. But then again.... "

AJ wrote on Sep 3, 2008 5:35 PM:

" interested wrote on Sep 3, 2008 4:43 PM:
" *Sigh* I don't want to sound stupid but I would like to know what you're talking about when you speak of buckets of urine and knives? I just got done with a 2 week vacation so I am out of the news loop. "

While you were vacationing, your fascist rethuglican brethren were busy violating the constitution by arresting some protesters, on what appear to be the flimsiest of charges in an effort to intimidate them. Buckets of urine and knives, amongst other things, were confiscated. Lower down the page I have links to the story(ies). "

dd wrote on Sep 3, 2008 5:26 PM:

" Interested--AJ says that most people keep that sort of thing around in their homes. Or, atleast they are common, and legal to keep in the home. I guess that those types of things should not alarm authorities in anyway.....I don't know, something like that. I suppose AJ likes the urine and knife thing....... "

dd wrote on Sep 3, 2008 4:51 PM:

" To correct you---it should be--Are there two Karls? "

interested wrote on Sep 3, 2008 4:43 PM:

" *Sigh* I don't want to sound stupid but I would like to know what you're talking about when you speak of buckets of urine and knives? I just got done with a 2 week vacation so I am out of the news loop. "

interested wrote on Sep 3, 2008 4:35 PM:

" nature lover wrote on Sep 3, 2008 7:12 AM:

" is there two Karls? Karl and Karl again? "

I was just wondering the same thing. "

morals wrote on Sep 3, 2008 4:31 PM:

" Is there a God? I pray that you are kidding. "

interested wrote on Sep 3, 2008 4:28 PM:

" Nice, AJ. Are you and Karl related? Have either one of you met someone/anyone that you haven't insulted? "

dd wrote on Sep 3, 2008 4:14 PM:

" Karl--you have said repeatedly that Christianity is a farce, and that God does not exist. Obama has publically acknowledged his belief that God exists, and he prays--meaning he speaks to God, and God answers prayers. I guess that makes him a nut job, huh? If he says he is Christian, and does not exhibit the attributes of a Christian, it makes him a liar (just like so many other politicians) So, why would you vote for a nutcase? If a crazy man came up to you on the street, and told you he'd give you his pot of gold at the end of the dark alley, would you race him to it? FYI Karl, and AJ--I am not saying that I have made a decision who to vote for, I am just pointing out your double standards. I think most politicians have double standards, and rarely walk the walk when they think no one is looking. "

AJ wrote on Sep 3, 2008 3:43 PM:

" cpiazza02, it's called HYPOCRISY. The repthuglicans wrote the book on it.

Good post, BTW. "

AJ wrote on Sep 3, 2008 3:21 PM:

" dd wrote on Sep 3, 2008 2:10 PM:
" Karl--how can he be a truth teller if there is no such thing as God? How can you sit there with a straight face, and listen to a man that believes in a make believe kingdom and such? "

DD, you are joking, right?

Have you ever seen this God character, or do you know anyone who has? OK, I know people like George Bush claim to have heard him speaking to them, but we know they're delusional. But I don't know a single sole who has seen this character.

DD, CVN, the buckets were in the attic which was used for living space, though there were no bathrooms. This was confirmed by the owner of the property.

As for the knives, lots of people carry them and they are legal, though I wouldn't be surprised in the least if the knives weren't concocted. "

AJ wrote on Sep 3, 2008 3:10 PM:

" You're right FG. McCain's hot temper is what got him into trouble when he started the "WORST AIRCRAFT CARRIER FIRE IN US HISTORY AFTER WWII". This was of course BEFORE he was a POW. "

AJ wrote on Sep 3, 2008 3:06 PM:

" interested wrote on Sep 3, 2008 1:14 PM:
" I would rather be a rethuglican than a dumbocrat. "

That's funny interested, but being a dumb rethuglican is worse. "

karl again... wrote on Sep 3, 2008 3:04 PM:

" dd, "God" does not confer "Truth" in the same way that "Santa Claus" does not confer "Christmas"/
Please, think of some more intelligent quizzlers, ok? "

interested wrote on Sep 3, 2008 3:03 PM:

" Uh..yeah. I am a republican. I already knew that. Thanks Karl. "

karl again... wrote on Sep 3, 2008 3:01 PM:

" dd, I can't seriously believe you're as ignorant as you are playing, but I will respond to your baiting here just in case you're really not bluffing?
Why is the pregnancy an issue?
BECAUSE IT PROVES THAT "ABSTINENCE ONLY" D-O-E-S
N-O-T
W-O-R-K!!!!
Let's get something straight here, dd--telling your kids not to have sex is NOT "Abstinence Only" as it is defined in the policy which is currently defrauding the American taxpayers! (you included)
What makes A.O so insidious and disturbing is that A.O. PROMOTES the ignorance of condoms and birth control!
It simply uses the ideological wishful-thinking of "Just say no to sex" as the basis for the policy--and it spreads FALSE information about condoms--that they "Don't work".
Well I'm here to tell you--they "work" JUST FINE for me for over 25 years!
So when a kid like Palin's finds herself doing what nature drives her to do, she doesn't INSIST on a condom cuz she thinks "well it won't work anyway!"--and she winds up pregnant!
THAT"s WHY it's EXTREMELY relevant!
Because if Palin gets her way, not only would Abortion be absolutely forbidden by law, but as soon as that is accomplished, so would contraceptives be the next target.
Are you aware that already, some of the most hard-right Pro Life groups are ALREADY targeting Contraception as "The First Step in Murdering Babies?!?!
I mean, yes, tell your daughters not to have promiscuous sex, but don't be so damned naive---and criminally, willfully negligent so as to deny them the knowledge about Contraception and responsible Family Planning! "

cpiazza02 wrote on Sep 3, 2008 2:59 PM:

" OK, I have to chime in here as you all know I jump in from time to time. Let me express a few things here I am pretty young no where near my 30s young. I have one child and one on the way. Let me ask this Here i see a 44 year old woman who has 5 children. How does this lady think she can run our country when she cant even run her own house hold. I guess i am a little confused by all of this. It has been proven fact that children who come from a home of stability and a home of control are less likely to have teen pregnancy and cause problems. Children who are left at the wastline are the ones who fall through the cracks and have children young and cause problems. Next Question How could any mother think this is ok that thier teen is pregnant. Brings us to the Welfare question I guess since she thinks its ok for her teen daughter to be pregnant then its ok for all of us to live on welfare. So again if she cant run her own home with out having total chaos how do you think shes going to run this country. I am rather discussed by this campaion and very disappointed. I vote for myself. LOL "

morals wrote on Sep 3, 2008 2:30 PM:

" Karl, I would have to disagree.Neither one tells the truth. "

karl again... wrote on Sep 3, 2008 2:17 PM:

" dd, I don't know why you and cm feel the need ot play these games of endless clarifications and semantics?
I think that by now, two "old salts" on this forum would know EXACTLY what my position is on the subject of Religion and its place in government?
dd, this is a SERIOUS question, with 0% sarcasm or rhetoric: do you REALLY think that because a person EXPRESSES a belief in ANY "god" that that fact alone somehow confers them with some sort of "moral compass"?!
I assure you, in my considerable experience and study of that point, it MOST CERTAINLY DOES NOT.
Look at all the Republiscum "holy rollers' and hypocrites who wear their Religion on their sleeves and give impressive lip service to the idea of God in government and daily life. Look at how many of them have completely been outed as hypocrites, liars, criminals, etc.
Now, I'm not excusing any Democrats either--but the Dems have NOT made the whole "religious issue" the heart and core of their campaigns and governing philosophy!
I don't care if anyone says the word "God"; it's HOW they invoke it, and what the import of their doing so conveys!
dd, the simple answer to why no one should ever govern with their religious beliefs is because their religious beliefs may not be YOUR religious beliefs!!!
How about a true-blue Muslim who would ban women from wearing dresses or pant suits in his administration, or demanded they cover their faces or heads?! You'd think that pretty outrageous, wouldn't you? Well once we open that door, any "god" can just walk right through it!
I don't think you understand that an Atheist would NEVER force people to adopt "atheist" practices--because atheists know all too well how hypocritical and what a slippery slope that is! "

dd wrote on Sep 3, 2008 2:10 PM:

" Karl--how can he be a truth teller if there is no such thing as God? How can you sit there with a straight face, and listen to a man that believes in a make believe kingdom and such? "

dd wrote on Sep 3, 2008 2:09 PM:

" Why is the pregnancy an issue Karl? You and AJ believe that it is human nature to want to have sex. Whats the issue--she is human, and wanted to have sex. I can bet you that Obama and his wife preach abstinence in their home, or will they be packing "just in case" rubbers in their daughters backpacks for an afterschool snack with the secret service guards on the way home from school. Oh, thats right, you don't believe in abstinence---no way would it work---Jeez, guess you'll have to really rethink your choice for president since Obama believes in God, and will, like 99% of most American men preach abstinence to their kids. "

karl again... wrote on Sep 3, 2008 2:02 PM:

" Morals, then you should vote for Obama, because he's at least a truth-teller, not a liar like McCain--remember the Keating Five?!? "

dd wrote on Sep 3, 2008 2:02 PM:

" AJ--I guess I'll see you around town with your 5 gal. buckets of urine, and throwing knives--since most of us just have that hanging around. "

dd wrote on Sep 3, 2008 1:55 PM:

" Karl--How can you say that a man's (or woman's) religious beliefs should not be used as a tool when they govern? When you elect someone to office, you are electing them, their experience, and yes, their moral compass. You need to take the good and bad. Just like when you, Karl, vote for the person that suits you best--Obama may not be everything you want, but you are taking him for the points you like, not because he believes in God. Do you think he is an idiot for believing in God Karl? If so, you need to vote for someone else, because how can you in good conscience try to put someone who is like him in office? What if you had a born again, running against an athiest? What if they were both equal on all accounts, except for religion? You would be certain to vote for the athiest because he/she suited your set of values better than the other. So, Karl, your statement that no one should ever govern with their religious beliefs is wrong, in my opinion. Can't wait for Obama to reference God in a speech, so you can blast hime for being one of a small mind. "

chris van note wrote on Sep 3, 2008 1:47 PM:

" I found this on the Al Gore (tm) interwebs.

If you read the left wing blogs, here is what the crazies...oops-I mean the reality based folks think:

Palin faked that she was pregnant with Trig to cover up that her daughter Bristrol was actually pregnant. When the baby was born and they found out he was black, so she bleached his skin to further conceal the truth. When nosy reporters got close to her secret, she killed a hobo, put the corpse in a gorilla suit, and froze it to claim she had bigfoot and cause a big media distraction. The hobo had hobo friends, though, and they started asking questions, so Palin had to murder them too and bury them in the middle of nowhere. But then there was a proposal to build a bridge to nowhere so she had to oppose that to keep people away from her secret. Then she still wasn't able to conceal the truth, so she forced Bristol to get pregnant again and changed the medical records so that it looked like Bristol was pregnant when Trig was born so Trig couldn't be hers. Finally, she joined a radical Alaskan separatist group to prepare to secede Alaska from America to join with Russia and wipe out the U.S. to fully conceal the truth. "

karl again... wrote on Sep 3, 2008 1:25 PM:

" Interested, if you would rather be a Rethuglican than a Democrat, ...then you already are... "

karl again... wrote on Sep 3, 2008 1:24 PM:

" Is anyone outraged at the utter and total hypocrisy shown by the Republican spinsters in saying that this issue of Palin's daughter's pregnancy is "not relevant"?!
Can you IMAGINE what would have been the case if it were the DEMOCRATIC nominee who had the same issue--ESPECIALLY if they were so hard-core against birth control and abortion--or for that matter FOR both of those topics?!
OF COURSE IT'S AN ISSUE!!!! "

Morals wrote on Sep 3, 2008 1:19 PM:

" The person that I will vote for will be who lives thier life according to Christian beliefs "

interested wrote on Sep 3, 2008 1:14 PM:

" I would rather be a rethuglican than a dumbocrat. "

movedsouth wrote on Sep 3, 2008 12:53 PM:

" From now until the election, one party will bash the other, that's politics. Both sides believe they have the right policy. The bashing is funny and unbalanced, maybe a different class of people. "

Farmer's Gal wrote on Sep 3, 2008 12:51 PM:

" To take the pressure of being President of a major world country, being merely "human" with a flaw like a hot temper is an anti-qualification for the job.

The impression I had from the cellmate's interview was that the hot temper was part of McCain's natural personality, not something he acquired from being a POW. But either way, it is a dangerous liability in a President.

Thanks for the further discussion, nature -- I don't think we have any argument. I tried to keep to my generalizations (qualifying them as such) so as not to sound like I was making an "attack" on you personally. I hear your points -- and agree. Thanks again. "

AJ wrote on Sep 3, 2008 12:32 PM:

" Right, cm, its being human.

Unfortunately, the rethuglicans know NOTHING about being human. They treat people like commodities. Basically, they are lower than pond scum. "

1234567890p wrote on Sep 3, 2008 12:30 PM:

" All you Bush loveers out there, be sure to vote for the old man & his woman (??). or elect obama & his pick(!!) "

AJ wrote on Sep 3, 2008 12:28 PM:

" mark wrote on Sep 3, 2008 10:59 AM:
" blah blah blah blah blah who cares about you farmer gal. "

Wow, Mark. That was real intelligent! Got any more brilliance for us to ponder today or did you crawl back under your rock? "

brew1234 wrote on Sep 3, 2008 12:28 PM:

" correction: if we could guard the borders of our nation like the borders of the RNC "

cm wrote on Sep 3, 2008 11:58 AM:

" I can somehow see that being a POW for many years would make one quick-tempered!
Along with losing some of your faith, one of the first things a person does in a crisis is to blame 'their' God, not understanding why did this happen?

Similar to the hostages that were just released recently...you begin to wonder after the first year if ANYONE will come!!

have we not all been short-fused at certain times?
we leave for work and have a flat tire,
get to work the boss is a bear,
get home and you computer crashes,
now add the toilet overflows, the hot water tank explodes, and a screaming kid throwing a temper tantrum!

its called being human!

people are shocked about Palin because we never heard of her before this week.
shes like the new kids at school--do we like her, or not? Will we get to know her or not? are we being judgemental?

again--its being human! "

brew1234 wrote on Sep 3, 2008 11:48 AM:

" The funniest thing about the christian music singer was that she was horrible! She couldn't carry a tune in a basket. Even Paula Abdul would have given her a bad rating.
A senator doing commentary on CBS was defending Sarah Palin's experience saying that experience in the senate is no substitute for being a governor. The female commentator asked the senator if that meant she was more qualified to be president than he was since Senate experience is not relevant. The senator turned red faced and almost choked in response that it didn't apply to him.
Also look at the faces on the podium and in the audience of both conventions. I would feel most at home with those at the DNC than the RNC. The demographic of the RNC is mostly old white men.
Lastly the RNC is gushing in respect for a Viet Nam vet but last year they skewered a Viet Nam hero. They are very much a party of contrdictions. No experience is a problem for a democrat but no problem for a republican.
If the repugnantcans could guard the borders of our nation like the borders of our country, terrorism and illegal immigration would be over. If the terrorists and illegals were 50 year old female news reporters and teenagers holding flowers. "

nature lover wrote on Sep 3, 2008 11:35 AM:

" FG, I overgeneralized to prove my point that we as a nation do not know who this Palin chick is. She could very well be the next prez even just in considering McCains age. There is always grey areas and I used the extreme to highlight my personal experiences with 100's of woman confined in one area - woman ARE catty for the most part. This is something McCain doesnt know (or most men for that matter) because he is male. He thought ooh a woman that "seems" to have it all will really appeal to the masses - not! Women will criticise b4 they accept - more so nowadays as woman HAVE to strive to have it all whether we want to or not - its just the time we live in. Our mothers had kids and were housewives - a slower pace. And I find that he did not go with his heart in chosing a proper running mate rather he choose in a desparate attempt to win. For his lack of knowing business he should have chosen a better business partner. I merely brought up for discusion not criticism. "

mark wrote on Sep 3, 2008 10:59 AM:

" blah blah blah blah blah who cares about you farmer gal. "

Farmer's Gal wrote on Sep 3, 2008 8:08 AM:

" I'm a career woman who also had children -- and don't think that makes me a freak. One of the best lectures I ever heard was a woman at Wells whose topic was "You can have it all, but you can't have it all at once." Very true, and nothing wrong with that approach to life.

The problem with women (generalization here -- so take it with a grain of salt) is that they are catty and can't get along well with other women. So, you get the childless career women who have no respect for the stay-at-home moms and vice versa -- instead of women having respect for other women, and glad and proud that we can each make our own choices. There is room for both kinds of women (and other "kinds" as well) in our world, and there are admirable things about each group.

But for some reason, women as an aggregate just can't seem to respect the choices of others. Just because it wouldn't be your choice, doesn't mean it isn't right for someone else.

On McCain and his POW status, someone sent me this quotation this morning:

"To see McCain resort to playing the POW card when answering legitimate questions, in my mind, cheapens that experience. And by cheapening his own experience in war, he degrades all of our experiences in war. He turns the horrific incidents we've all seen, touched, smelled, and felt into a lame excuse to earn political points. And it dishonors us all."
-- Brandon Friedman, a veteran of both Iraq and Afghanistan

This snippet came with a link to a short video by a Dr. Phillip Butler, who was a POW across the hall from McCain. He recalls two things about McCain -- one was that McCain had an extremely volatile temper -- was sensitive and very easy to anger and bellicose and belligerent in response -- not a person, Dr. Butler says, he would want anywhere near "the red button."

The other thing he remembered about him was that he was very lukewarm on the subject of religion -- that he was not a person of much faith -- and Dr. Butler doesn't buy McCain's sudden interest in religion as a matter of faith, but rather as politically expedient.

The uncontrolled temper part is what makes him such an extremely dangerous candidate, and one of the bigger reasons I feel I have to vote for Obama to keep this nutter out of the White House. I don't think Obama is going to do much good, and could easily institute policies that might make things worse, but not in the way that having a high-strung, violently tempered warmonger in charge of saying when it's time to press the button would be. "

cm wrote on Sep 3, 2008 7:35 AM:

" karl: flip-flopped on his principles:
I see Obama had his 'PIN' on yesterday.. "

nature lover wrote on Sep 3, 2008 7:12 AM:

" is there two Karls? Karl and Karl again? "

karl again... wrote on Sep 3, 2008 1:57 AM:

" Boy, every American ought to be outraged that the Republican Religious Party selected a CHRISTIAN MUSIC performer to kiss up to the Evangelical "base" last night at the RNC-the "Religious Nat'l Convention".
Does anyone out there have any doubt that this campaign is all about kowtowing to the extreme Religious Right?!
You remember them dontcha?--the same bunch of radical nuts that have been corrupting the government for the last 8 years?
I simply CANNOT believe that they haven't learned their lessons yet!
Aren't YOU sick of Congress and the President convening Prayer Meetings to discuss things like Gay Marriage and Ten Commandments displays instead of say, oh...the economy? The war? The loss of manufacturing jobs in America?!
Discuss! "

karl again... wrote on Sep 2, 2008 8:42 PM:

" I've been watching the news all day, and here are some interesting things said at the RNC:
1. Regarding Palin:
"Conservatives finally feel as if they have ONE OF THEIR OWN on the ticket..."
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT WAS SAID ABOUT CANDIDATE GEORGE W BUSH!!!
2. About McCain:
"Senator McCain was ...'very accomodating' about putting some issues on the ticket that he was less than comfortable with.."said by Gary Bauer--one of the FARTHEST "right" NeoCon Fundamentalists in the Party!
TRANSLATION: McCain AGAIN betrayed his principles and caved/sucked up to the Radical Social Conservatives by making the campaign basically a "Pro Life" campaign as an olive branch/gift to the Fundamentalist puppet masters of the RNC.
3. That up until 10-or-so days ago, that other unprincipled traitor Joe Lieberman was McCain's pick. But when threatened with a revolt by the Radical Religious Right's leaders in the Party, he AGAIN flip-flopped on his principles and, in a panic, chose Palin.
TRANSLATION--Once again, John McCain has shown that he has betrayed his "maverick" tendencies and instead, kowtowed to the Social Conservatives and Religious wingnuts in the Party. He is too obsessed and consumed with his personal ambitions for Power to be trusted in the White House, and his horrible, clouded judgment has led him to choose a woman who is really a COMPLETELY radical whack-job who would have no business running a bingo hall, much less the country!
Obama/Biden is the ONLY choice. "

nature lover wrote on Sep 2, 2008 7:33 PM:

" The 8% respect I had for McCain for being a war vet/POW is nearly diminished with his ploy of Palin as his VP choice. How daft to think that she would tug at the female population's heartstrings. And how hilarious that she hasnt been seen for two days - perhaps they are waterboarding her to c if there is anymore dirty laundry tied to her name.

I also found it appauling that he is calling ol' Sarah his "soul mate" um, isnt that what his wife is supposed to be? Woman are divided into two groups here in the US - the stay at home's & the career woman. And neither one of them look too favorably at the other. Having worked in an office w/over 200 woman, when it was maternity time, the career woman sneered at the audacity of the stay at home woman and how her job would still be available. The stay at home couldnt understand why any woman wouldnt be just overjoyed at the stench of dirty diapers and spit up 24/7.

Palin is btwn both of these groups/a freak who wants it all. Career woman wondering why would u have 5 kids in the 1st place & be so careless to get impregnated after 40? Obviously the example she set for her daughter!! And the stay at homes wondering WTF isnt she at home w/her kids - a special needs 4 month?

Palin is gonna sink McCain big time. What a joke! "

Farmer's Gal wrote on Sep 2, 2008 5:14 PM:

" Took a quick peek, didn't see the little girl, don't have time right now to dig it up, but I get the gist. I've seen it happen to friends, or very similar. The totally mainstream American sitting home in his or her armchair has no idea how little one need deviate from the "norm" to be severely harassed by the authorities if you try to exercise your (safe and legal!) Constitutional rights -- they think Democracy works.

BTW, found the ad for a new play called "Choke" rather disturbing -- the ad features a large unattractive male face with tiny female legs stuck in the mouth and kicking.

My ex was a theatre tech in NYC for many years of his life and once worked on a sick, nasty play called "Little Feet" about a woman who sits down at a table in a crowded cafe only to notice the other occupant of the table has tiny feet stuck in his teeth -- because he has been eating fetuses. This perverse and disgusting play (which the playwright has every right to produce under Freedom of Speech -- no argument!) was written by noted children's author, Shel Silverstein. My ex would not allow any of that man's books in our house. He met him and found him to be as slimey and disgusting as his play and didn't want our kids reading anything he'd written, no matter how popular or innocuous.

It as it should be to allow anything to be written, produced or read by adults, but there is nothing to say we must expose ourselves to things we find disgusting, or especially not our small children.

Think what you like -- I am afraid I had to agree with him on that one. "

AJ wrote on Sep 2, 2008 4:00 PM:

" FG, you need to see this. Check out a short way down the page - they have a link to a girl holding up a flower, not doing anything wrong, getting pepper sprayed, while scores of police marched past in full riot gear.

Minneapolis looks like a militarized zone, just f'n incredible. What are the rethuglicans so afraid of? Of course, the DNC wasn't a whole lot better, but nothing like this.

Anyhow, Greenwald is covering this pretty well.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/09/01/protests/index.html "

AJ wrote on Sep 2, 2008 3:44 PM:

" CVN, 80% of what is listed there is stuff you'll find in ANY home and perfectly legal. And this does not look like the original list. Looks like a few things may have been added in after the fact for effect eh?

Of course you'll believe EVERYTHING the government tells you, right? You're so gullible, McFly! "

chris van note wrote on Sep 2, 2008 3:44 PM:

" I did look over the Salon.com story and I didn't see anything regarding this.

FG, did you read the article? "

cm wrote on Sep 2, 2008 3:33 PM:

" gramma's girl is heading here for the night and all day tomorrow-her mama is sick..
shes as routy as her dad was--good thing I dont have any skateboards around! "

cm wrote on Sep 2, 2008 3:27 PM:

" its one thing to exercise your right to protest..but to abuse is simply asking for jail.

its an election..we all wont die if our fav doesnt win! we may suffer some, but we wont die! "

Farmer's Gal wrote on Sep 2, 2008 3:03 PM:

" AJ DID back up his position -- in the form of a link you didn't read. Hence he called you lazy. It's not his fault if you don't read what he sent. I'm not even following that particular thread aside from the "bucket of urine" business -- just felt I had to speak up on that as an unjust accusation. "

chris van note wrote on Sep 2, 2008 2:27 PM:

" From the same source:

ob Fletcher, Ramsey County Sheriff, shows some of the confiscated materials during a news conference in at the Republican National Convention in St. Paul, Minn., Saturday, Aug. 30, 2008. Police raided several homes in Minneapolis and St. Paul on Friday and Saturday and four people were arrested and booked on probable cause of conspiracy to commit a riot. Protesters smash a window at Macy's in downtown St. Paul on Day 1 on the Republican National Convention Wrist rockets. The statement [warrant] said the items found in the searches included:

Materials to create "sleeping dragons" (PVC pipe, chicken wire, duct tape), which is when protesters lock themselves together
Large amounts of urine, including three to five gallon buckets of urine
slingshots

A machete, hatchet and several throwing knives
a gas mask and filter
Empty glass bottles
Rags
Flammable liquids
Homemade caltrops (devises used to disable buses in roads)
Metal pipes
Axes
Bolt cutters
Sledge hammers
Rapelling equipment
Kryptonite locks
Empty plastic buckets cut and made into shields
Material for protective padding
An Army helmet.

Alrighty there AJ, got a valid explaination for this as well? Come on now, I'm sure you can dig up some conspiricy nonsense on Kos or DU or Firedoglake... "

1234567890p wrote on Sep 2, 2008 2:04 PM:

" I have been retired since August 1995. At one time I was a Notary Public and went to SHU *Special Housing Unit) and never was accosted since I offered them a service, I know of others who had Feces & urine thrown at them (COs). If you dont belive me, try working in that unit for a week. They also had blood thrown, Aids, hepatites, etc. "

AJ wrote on Sep 2, 2008 1:59 PM:

" Yes, CVN, I can back up what I said. And you just proved my point AGAIN in SPADES!!!!! "

chris van note wrote on Sep 2, 2008 1:28 PM:

" So AJ, you can't back up your position so you resort to calling me lazy. Typical.

And of course, its not the protesters fault that they are creating havoc, hurting people and destroying both public and private property...their criminal behavior is the fault of the GOP Convention.

I've got it now...must be the chemtrails and evil Republican mind
control rays converting them from peaceful, compost toilet using upstanding citizens to violent criminals. "

Farmer's Gal wrote on Sep 2, 2008 12:57 PM:

" Yep, I read the Wolf book -- we discussed it at the time.

CVN -- I didn't say that was why THESE people had a "bucket of urine;" you just asked why ANYONE might have one legitimately -- and I gave you a legitimate reason why a person might have such a thing, as requested. "

AJ wrote on Sep 2, 2008 12:46 PM:

" CVN, you're not just intellectually lazy, you just plain all around lazy. If the links I provided weren't enough, then you'll just have to figure it out for yourself.

FG, yeah, as I mentioned, none of this surprises me at all. All of the dirty tricks and BS which were outlawed as a result of the investigations by the Church committee (and the other one which escapes my memory at the moment) never really went away, but now are most likely back in full force under the Bush administration and ReTHUGlican party.

I'm sure your experience with those people was pretty frightening.

Did you ever read the Naomi Wolf book by any chance. I'm sure you probably mentioned it but my memory doesn't work as well as it used to. "

chris van note wrote on Sep 2, 2008 12:41 PM:

" FG, wow-what an explaination.

So in addition to being lefty anarchists who attack old folks, throw concrete at busses and spray people with bleach they were thoughtful enough to bring along their very own composting toilet?

Really? "

chris van note wrote on Sep 2, 2008 12:10 PM:

" Alright AJ, what would you consider a rational explaination for having a bucket of urine at home? "

Farmer's Gal wrote on Sep 2, 2008 12:01 PM:

" BTW, I know a family with a composting toilet. Basically, it is just a bucket with a seat filled with compost and it has to be emptied regularly. It doesn't smell, and it doesn't use water and is very environmentally friendly.

Someone could come along and spin that by calling it a "bucket of urine." Yeah, I suppose it is, but they have a perfectly legitimate reason for having one (or more, with a big family -- I only ever used the one downstairs) in their home. "

Farmer's Gal wrote on Sep 2, 2008 11:58 AM:

" Having had first-hand experience with agents provacateurs in unpopular political groups, I'd say such a thing is very possible.

I remember one weird guy at a political event who kept going out to his car to "talk to his cat." Later, this guy was getting all hyper and talking about wanting to shoot cops. This was a non-violent group and the guy was not known by anyone else, nor was anyone else talking that way -- he was hoping to stir people up and start trouble.

But that wasn't nearly as scary as the guy who came in the big camper who tried to get our fingerprints on a loaded assault weapon, and who, in retrospect, we realized had been taping us talking and most likely took our prints from the pop and beer he offered. He also tried to steer the conversation towards shooting up cops and other authorities, and when he started up with that, we got him out of there as quickly and tactfully as we could.

The government plays dirty with groups they don't like, especially the ones who oppose the government! "

AJ wrote on Sep 2, 2008 11:03 AM:

" No, CVN, I don't think it is normal. In their case there was a valid explanation, however, which makes perfect sense. But of course you wouldn't know that because you didn't dig deeper into the story. "

Farmer's Gal wrote on Sep 2, 2008 10:30 AM:

" You made the choice which was right for you, cm -- and aren't you glad you had a choice? Sounds like there were people around you pushing you not to have the child. That is just as wrong as pushing the other way.

I personally don't support later term abortion as an option unless the mother's life is truly in danger. If you get pregnant by accident, you need to make a decision right away -- so it's a good idea to think about it before you ever have intercourse in the first place. A ball of cells with the potential for human life is one thing; a half-formed baby is quite another.

But the bottom line is -- cm is glad she had a choice and didn't have to follow the pressure of those around her, and many others are grateful of their choices too. The person who has to live with the consequences should always be the person to make the decision. "

chris van note wrote on Sep 2, 2008 10:28 AM:

" I guess AJ thinks its normal to keep buckets of urine around the house...

Everybody said Ted Bundy was a real charming guy as well...

Way to rationalize things AJ. "

AJ wrote on Sep 2, 2008 10:07 AM:

" And it is OBVIOUS that Chris does not know the entire story. If the accounts of protesters harassing convention goers are true, I would not doubt for a second that they were agent provacateurs. There is already evidence that many groups have been infiltrated by the goons.

Regarding the raids - broke the door down with no search warrant, everything confiscated was legal to own, and there was, believe it or not, a valid explanation for the buckets. To top it off, all of the neighbors interviewed had good things to day about the people residing there. "

chris van note wrote on Sep 2, 2008 9:28 AM:

" J wrote on Sep 2, 2008 3:15 AM:
" Drama Queen, eh Chris? I suppose it might look that way to someone who the consititution means nothing to. Maybe you should move to China CVN, you'll feel right at home.

Federal government involved in raids on protesters - Glenn Greenwald.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/08/31/raids/

Why am I not surprised at any of this? By the way, they arrested and detained Amy Goodman, a journalist. Sounds a lot like intimidation to me. "

Yes, a drama queen. The police are trying to stop the lefty protesters from hurting anyone and damaging property.

http://www.twincities.com/rnc/ci_10357636?nclick_check=1

Protesters harassed two state delegations in St. Paul to attend the Republican National Convention Monday. Someone threw a rock through the window as delegates from Alabama rode their bus to the Xcel Energy Center, where RNC events took place. And masked protesters confronted and harassed the Connecticut delegation — several of them were spat upon, roughed up and doused with a mixture of water and bleach.

83-year-old Fred Biebel.

Beibel was reportedly shoved, and his credentials were torn off. One protestor grabbed the purse of the state party finance director, who tussled with the protestor to save it.

Its also been reported that GOP busses taking delegates from Minneapolis to St. Paul the lefties started throwing sandbags and cement bags at the busses from overpasses.

So lets see...
Buckets of urine-check
Throwing knives-check
Bow and arrows-check
Flammable liquids-check
Paint-check
Slingshots-check
Rocks-check
Full cement bags-check

And AJ says that the police are somehow violating the rights of the liberal protesters...I guess he means their rights to inflict bodily harm and to damage property.

Stay classy AJ.

Stay classy. "

chris van note wrote on Sep 2, 2008 8:47 AM:

" A Democrat walks into a bar at the airport and sees a very attractive, professional looking woman seated there, having a drink. He sits down next to her and surreptitiously slides off his wedding ring.

"Hey there," he says, ordering a drink. "You look like you're traveling on business."

"Yes," she says. "Well, kind of. I used to run a business, but now I'm in the public sector."

"That's impressive," says the Democrat. "You know, I really respect that. I always said that women were more capable than most men. You can run businesses, run for office, do anything a man can do. Some of you do it while raising children! It's incredible..."

"It's pretty challenging sometimes," the woman admits. "I several children."

"But you can do it! I've always said it was wrong to keep women in the home, tie them down to just having children when they are capable of so much more. We live in wonderful times, and it's refreshing to finally see women being treated as equals. I just respect women so much. So what did you mean, you're in the public sector now?"

She says, "My name is Sarah Palin and I'm running for Vice President."

The Democrat rears back in disapproval. "Shouldn't you be home with your children?!" "

cm wrote on Sep 2, 2008 6:48 AM:

" Everyone is hyping why did Palin have a baby on purpose with Downs, stating its her religious choice.

Well I can honestly say, back when I was prego daughter, The doctors did an Amnio.
They stated either Downs or something similar and told me to abort the pregnancy. They stressed that the child would have no value of life.
I agonized over the decision until the last day I could possibly abort. Back in 1987 partial-birth abortions were not the fad.

I am a 'whatever will be, will be' person.

I decided against the abortion, which made several doctors unhappy.
The next few months were full of sleepless nights wondering if I made the 'right' decision. I had already had 2 boys, 6 and 2, and that 2 yr old did everything to defy gravity!
Could I handle a special needs child with a boy that thought he was superman trying to jump off roofs?

The day came and she was born, beautiful and healthy as can be!!
Now she is 21, sometimes tests aren't always right..

for me this was the 2nd time around, tests were wrong..
the routy 2 yr old was suppose to be born dead or die shortly after, the placenta had split, and I nearly bled to death. They took him at 26 wks and expected the worse!
No one thought this tiny munchkin wearing cabbage patch doll clothes, would 2 yrs later be riding his skateboard off the roof of my car!

like FG said: choices!!! "

AJ wrote on Sep 2, 2008 3:15 AM:

" Drama Queen, eh Chris? I suppose it might look that way to someone who the consititution means nothing to. Maybe you should move to China CVN, you'll feel right at home.

Federal government involved in raids on protesters - Glenn Greenwald.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/08/31/raids/

Why am I not surprised at any of this? By the way, they arrested and detained Amy Goodman, a journalist. Sounds a lot like intimidation to me. "

AJ wrote on Sep 2, 2008 2:18 AM:

" Karl, right on! Palin was an utter failure where teaching abstinence was concerned. This is part and parcel of the hypocrisy that is the evangelical wing rethuglican party. "

AJ wrote on Sep 2, 2008 2:16 AM:

" CVN, as always, displaying your total ignorance and or total contempt for (what's left of) the constitution.

Like I've said before, you would have felt right at home in Stalinist Russia or Nazi Germany.

FG, I certainly understand your focus. After all everything does flow from the fact that the corps have way too much power, influence, and money. "

dkeeb2000 wrote on Sep 1, 2008 10:09 PM:

" Would Hillary leave a four-month-old infant with Down's Syndrome behind while she goes out on the grueling campaign trail?

The more appropriate question is would she have a baby with this? "

karl again... wrote on Sep 1, 2008 8:09 PM:

" That's right, Chris--a child born to a child IS a "punishment", if the child/family is not given the opportunity to terminate the pregnancy BY THEIR CHOICE--which is of course, exactly how the Religious Right nuts would want it to be!
How damningly appropriate and predictable it is, that the firm advocate of "Abstinence" garbage has a 17-year-old PREGNANT daughter!
OOOPS!?!
I guess there's livin' roof for you that IT DOESN'T WORK!
What a fraud! Even the gov'nuh HERSELF couldn't convince HER OWN DAUGHTER to subscribe to the ridiculous notion!
I WILL bet this though--I'll bet she told her that "condoms don't work"!
The poor kid--the truth is, she couldn't get an abortion if she wanted to now--her mother would never allow it, politically! "

Farmer's Gal wrote on Sep 1, 2008 7:30 PM:

" Number one: It MUST be the mother's choice.

Number 2: For some very young mothers, a new baby WOULD be a punishment -- for both the mother AND the baby. Not every young woman who finds herself pregnant has a grandma for the baby who is willing and able to help out; not every young woman who finds herself pregnant has a young man willing to marry her and help support the child. Not every young woman who finds herself pregnant is mature and responsible enough to care for a baby (she probably wouldn't be pregnant in the first place if she were!) For some young women who don't feel they are prepared to care for a child, carrying and giving birth to a child then giving it up is more traumatic than not carrying it or giving birth to it.

It is NOT OUR PLACE TO MAKE THAT DECISION FOR ANYONE BUT OURSELVES, because one way or another, they will be the ones to have to live with the consequences, though if they choose to have the child, the CHILD also has to live with the consequences, for good or ill.

Or end up dead like that "missing" three-year old in Florida, whose mother wanted to not have the child, but the grandmother forced her to have the baby. It's the extreme case, but a good one to show why it's important not to force your decision on someone else. Making that young woman have her baby did not make her more mature and responsible. Instead, it appears that it drove her to more drastic and tragic actions for both herself and the child.

There are situations where there is no good choice, and it's too late to go back and un-do past bad decisions. My opinion is that the choice should be made as much as possible in the best interests of the child -- and in some cases, not being born to a mother who doesn't want you and who isn't prepared to care for you is the less bad choice.

But I still stand on the side of the mother to decide about her body and her potential child, without undue pressure from anyone. Support means supporting the mother's choice, whichever way it goes, and the parent of a young woman who is pregnant when she didn't mean to be needs to keep that in mind. If you love your child, truly and deeply, be prepared to support her decision, whichever way it goes, even if you disagree or think you would have chosen differently in her shoes.

That's love; that's support when it's needed. "

anonymous wrote on Sep 1, 2008 7:29 PM:

" Has anyone else seen the youtube footage of a young Ms. Alaska "pandering to the electorate"? "

chris van note wrote on Sep 1, 2008 6:15 PM:

" brew1234 wrote on Sep 1, 2008 2:33 PM:
" His children would have a CHOICE, her daughter has none. "

She certainly does have a choice. She is choosing to be responsible for her actions and not use abortion as a method of birth control. "

quiveringthigh wrote on Sep 1, 2008 5:36 PM:

" Glad to see everyone is enjoying their Labor Day! 100degrees out here and actually nice with the breeze! Just the dog and I relaxing. Cooking out this evening! "

cm wrote on Sep 1, 2008 3:24 PM:

" 2005--My son had his first at 20, the same age I had my first. As any parent we all worry about the struggles they will face, but she was a blessing and so much a grammas girl..
2007--he had the second,--different girl, her mom wanted her to get an abortion and basically went balistic!
I was shocked, yet not really surprised.
I wished they had waited a tad bit longer, but it is not my life to choose. BUT I can and have been supportive. I have never said No when a call for a babysitter was needed.
I try to take them out to dinner atleast every other week, to give them a treat.
Thats what grandma's SHOULD do!!

An adorable little boy is about to take his first steps, I can't imagine life without either one of them!! "

brew1234 wrote on Sep 1, 2008 2:33 PM:

" His children would have a CHOICE, her daughter has none. "

chris van note wrote on Sep 1, 2008 2:08 PM:

" AJ wrote on Sep 1, 2008 2:16 AM:
" More information on the fascism in Minneapolis:

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/08/30/police_raids/

AJ, you really are a drama queen.

From the Minneapolis Star Tribune:

"At least five suspected leaders of the RNC Welcoming Committee, a self-described anarchist group, were taken to the Hennepin County jail, and another was being sought, said Ramsey County Sheriff Bob Fletcher.

On Saturday afternoon, he displayed a number of the confiscated items: a gun, throwing knives, a bow and arrows, flammable liquids, paint, slingshots, rocks and buckets of urine."

Sounds like what every “peace” protestor carries on the march. "

chris van note wrote on Sep 1, 2008 2:01 PM:

" From the NY Post:

The 17-year-old daughter of Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin is pregnant, Palin said on Monday in an announcement intended to knock down rumors by liberal bloggers that Palin faked her own pregnancy to cover up for her child.

And from the McCain website:

We have been blessed with five wonderful children who we love with all our heart and mean everything to us. Our beautiful daughter Bristol came to us with news that as parents we knew would make her grow up faster than we had ever planned. We’re proud of Bristol’s decision to have her baby and even prouder to become grandparents. As Bristol faces the responsibilities of adulthood, she knows she has our unconditional love and support.

“Bristol and the young man she will marry are going to realize very quickly the difficulties of raising a child, which is why they will have the love and support of our entire family. We ask the media to respect our daughter and Levi’s privacy as has always been the tradition of children of candidates.”

And what the Obamessiah has said if one of his daughters gets pregnant:

“Look, I got two daughters — 9 years old and 6 years old,” he said. “I am going to teach them first about values and morals, but if they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby."

One ticket sees this as a blessing. The other sees it as a curse or some sort of "punishment". "

Farmer's Gal wrote on Sep 1, 2008 12:44 PM:

" I know, AJ -- you say just what my ex said through all the years we were together (and since -- a total of 24 years). We've seen and understood, and are making different responses to the situation -- not radically different, just different. And I too hope someday we'll get there. Right now I am more focused on the underlying problem of corporate "rights" which drive so much of the problem. I'll do what I feel I must to keep a nutter like McCain out of the White House (and equally nutso Palin and her two scandals (at least) already, just days after the announcement of her status as running mate), but otherwise, my focus is on supporting individual communities and their battles against corporate destruction.

We are only small individuals; in groups we can have power, but getting consensus is tough, esp. against The Machine. Still, we do what we can. "

dan w wrote on Sep 1, 2008 11:29 AM:

" McCain and Palin in 08 "

quest wrote on Sep 1, 2008 11:05 AM:

" Where Hillary rode bills coat tails into office, Sarah Palin has worked hard and risen through the ranks with hard work, something we should be teaching all our kids to do. Don't marry rich, work for it and it will pay off in the end.

Hillary is smart, but do you want to teach your young girls that even if your husband cheats, you should stick with him or it would be political suicide??? "

AJ wrote on Sep 1, 2008 10:40 AM:

" FG, I'm not naive enough to believe that we're at that point. I'm merely suggesting that is the simplest solution to the problem. If we don't buy into their BS, then we won't end up voting for tweedle dumb or tweedle dumber, both of whom were vetted by the power elite.

At some stage people are going to have to wake up and realize how manipulated they are when it comes to voting, and start voting their conscience, or the powers that be will forever have us where they want us. "

cm wrote on Sep 1, 2008 10:35 AM:

" honestly irritated: I cannot wait until these elections are over with!
I agree they spend way too much monies on gibberish and slams..
One days worth could buy 10 homes for someone needy. "

cm wrote on Sep 1, 2008 10:31 AM:

" I hope tomorrows news doesnt bring more deaths from hurricane gustav in N.O,
I have had CNN on--and wow, I hope these people listened and got out!

personally even if they are not concerned since this one is only a catagory 3 and katrina was a 5..its the levies I would NOT be trusting! "

Farmer's Gal wrote on Sep 1, 2008 9:23 AM:

" AJ -- you wrote: "...but one would hope that the informed electorate would drive the election."

Hope all you want, but at this time in history, it just isn't so. I wish, you wish, we hope, but if we ignore the reality that this is not so, we reap the consequences.

I suspect it would take a mind-rattling catastrophic event that got everyone's attention at once, one the media could not spin away (now that WOULD be an extraordinary event) before enough people snap out of it all at once to be able to elect a better candidate.

And that is so unlikely, I haven't thought it out much beyond there. I still live in a world where most people buy into the system, and many of those who don't, like myself, are rendered ineffectual if we try to break free and operate outside the system, at least when it comes to elections.

I wish it were different, I hope some day it may be, and there are times when I feel I can strike out and try, and others when I feel the alternative to merely yucky is so bad I have to vote for yucky over dangerous and horrible, if you follow.

I don't disrespect your choice, and I don't think enough people in NYS will follow any but the Democratic Party to make a difference in this state, so I won't even try to get you to change your mind -- and maybe there will be enough people across the country who go against the flow (without taking away enough votes to allow McCain to be elected) to make a statement and send a message. But don't hold your breath. They know there's a group of people in this country who don't believe and who don't like it, but they pretty much have us where they want us. "

irritated wrote on Sep 1, 2008 9:16 AM:

" AJ wrote "As long as people continue to buy into media "projections", I'm afraid we'll NEVER get any worthwhile candidates. Since the media represent the status quo as large corporations, they will not allow the exposure to the best qualified."

All I can add to that is AMEN Brother! Unless your a sister! lol...

CM and Karls arguing back and forth is quite humerous... Valium anyone?? "

cm wrote on Sep 1, 2008 9:12 AM:

" Karl: while you're battling the REPS on abstinence, I am taking on DCF.
I have a neighbor, who is a foster parent, this child has been with her for nearly 5 years. from ages 2-6, soon to be 7.
DCF wants reunification by Nov 1st with the mother, which is clearly not all there mentally, physically abusive, and cusses non-stop. She has no parenting skills and could NOT have passed any of their classes.

This child has no memory of the bio-mom and has clearly bonded with her foster mom and dad. DCF is putting her/child thru daily emotional abuse to convince her to visit/overnight, this occurs during schools hours/daycare hours/and SAT.awards at her bowling league!
beyond shameful !!!!

DCF has failed this child in numerous ways, and are now trying to get this case off the books, to NOT get caught by the state officials.

My crusade began with letters out to every news station and the governor.
I cannot wait for the holiday(today)
to be over with to battle with the big guns that have clearly abused their rights and responsibilities!!!

I know you don't pray--
but 'this ones for the girl'... "

cm wrote on Sep 1, 2008 8:58 AM:

" thanks quiver: now I will have that song in my head all day--true great song! "

cm wrote on Sep 1, 2008 8:55 AM:

" Muslims today begin observing Ramadan, the holiest month of the Islamic calendar. During Ramadan, Muslims fast from dawn until sunset, pray, meditate and perform acts of charity.

what charities will they blow up this month?

just imagine, in Baghdad they want to add a huge ferris wheel, think of the future suicide bombings on this ride, 650 feet in the air.

Maybe they will call it the 'tourist death wheel' .....you take a spin and have a 50/50 chance of coming off alive!
airfare=500.00
ticket for ride=1.00
funeral expenses=0
you-tube video=priceless "

cm wrote on Sep 1, 2008 8:26 AM:

" karl: why label Palin a Fundamentalist NUT. The true facts are not many know of her..reporters are scrambling to get any info...and like YOU have said..why believe the MEDIA for such an important vote!

In the info I have researched myself, in over 50 areas, I see no facts to state she has voted based on her religious beliefs. That doesnt mean she won't EVER do so, any more than Biden won't EVER do so.

Abstinence: I don't agree with NOT funding or promoting it. However, I agree the funds for it should be less than the funds for birth control. I also feel S-ED needs to be taught BETTER in schools, and at an earlier age.

Have you seen 7th grade girls? All these additives to our food supply have added alright. And the market of clothing for the age group is too low, too tight, or too short.
YES alot goes back to the parents, but sadly most parents are disconnected for whatever reason.
I wish the schools Guidence office was used more than for picking classes. There needs to be ONE counselor that all kids can 'talk' to, or have a drop-box where kids can leave their questions and have them answered on the morning annoucements or in the weeks school paper?!

Creationism: todays news-still no bones found. "

AJ wrote on Sep 1, 2008 2:16 AM:

" More information on the fascism in Minneapolis:

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/08/30/police_raids/

Greenwald is a great writer - check out some of his other pieces while you're there. "

quiveringthigh wrote on Aug 31, 2008 11:17 PM:

" Maybe Barracuda by HEART was popular then. Gotta admit, that is one great song! "

AJ wrote on Aug 31, 2008 10:30 PM:

" Farmer's Gal wrote on Aug 31, 2008 7:34 PM:
" Of COURSE, AJ -- viability, I am sorry to say, does not come from the electorate, but from the media and the rest of the Machine -- they CREATE reality. But until there is a groundswell of people who wake up and clear away the fog created by this machine, the reality it creates remains sadly real. It's close to a Catch-22 for the intelligent citizen. But until we can get out from under it, it doesn't matter that we've seen the man behind the curtain -- the masses believe it and make it so, no matter that it is founded on air."

Of course, this does not address people's general ignorance thanks to the media itself, but one would hope that the informed electorate would drive the election.

Consider Dennis Kucinich. Most EVERYONE agreed with his platform over all the other candidates - Grounds for a very solid majority. When he spoke he was always VERY well received. But democrats, including the progressive left, refused to stand behind him even though he most closely reflected their values, laregely because the media projected that he wasn't "viable". If you ask me, you could swap the word "viable" for "non-threatening".

As long as people continue to buy into media "projections", I'm afraid we'll NEVER get any worthwhile candidates. Since the media represent the status quo as large corporations, they will not allow the exposure to the best qualified.

You are right about it being a catch 22 in many respects, but that still could be overcome if people voted for those they believed in and not the candidates they force on us.

It may just be that people are too fogged in as you say, but I think it is possible to drive the elections with our conciences, but maybe I'm just dreaming. ;) "

Peter F wrote on Aug 31, 2008 7:35 PM:

" In regards to Hilary Clinton, would she leave a four month old infant to go on a campaign trail? Yes, her own, yours, she'd sell anyone to get her commander-in-chief title.
The gall of that woman saying she had experience...experience in wearing evening gowns at state dinners?
And moving to New York to become a senator and step on us on her road to the White House was so transparent, I'm surprised more people didn't hurt themselves laughing.
Thank God, she's not in the running anymore. A Hill/Bill White House would have been a circus. "

Farmer's Gal wrote on Aug 31, 2008 7:34 PM:

" Of COURSE, AJ -- viability, I am sorry to say, does not come from the electorate, but from the media and the rest of the Machine -- they CREATE reality. But until there is a groundswell of people who wake up and clear away the fog created by this machine, the reality it creates remains sadly real. It's close to a Catch-22 for the intelligent citizen. But until we can get out from under it, it doesn't matter that we've seen the man behind the curtain -- the masses believe it and make it so, no matter that it is founded on air.

McCain and Palin in office, however, would not be just air -- it would be too d*mned scary to contemplate, much less allow to happen.

It's not that I can't SEE it, it's that there aren't enough of us who have seen it yet to have the necessary impact.

And I am not sure even if there were that it would work -- there's always the rigging of elections when media manipulation doesn't work....

Yes, I know, I am deeply cynical on this point. "

movedsouth wrote on Aug 31, 2008 6:39 PM:

" brew all I was saying was that she got the name in high school, not college. The article I read said that she got the name because of her competitiveness. The correction was for her Getting the name in high school, but actually you didn't say that college was where she GOT that tag. Sorry brew, I guess it was a knee jerk reaction to AJs post "Maybe you could comment on something important for a change? " "

longboard315 wrote on Aug 31, 2008 6:13 PM:

" This is directly from yahoo news regarding McCain's running-mate, Palin. This was a direct response McCain made to a question regarding Palin's experience in crisis management - regarding the potential hurricane situation in NO:

"Responding to a question after his hurricane-related remarks, McCain made a ringing defense of Palin, who Democrats argue has less experience than their presidential candidate, Barack Obama.

"I thin Sen. Obama, if they want to do down that route, in all candor, she has far, far more experience than Sen. Obama does," McCain said.

He cited Palin's stint as governor of a "state that produces 20 percent of America's energy" as well as her previous membership in the PTA and her time spent on the city council and in the mayor's office in Wasilla,a town of fewer than 7,000 people outside Anchorage"

Far, Far more experience?? What exactly qualifies her to handle such a potential situation thats currently happening in New Orleans?? Her PTA experience @ the local elementary school or her time on the local city council (& lets not forget MAYOR! WOOO)of her Port Byron-esque town in Alaska? I nearly spit out my drink when I read that. Thats like saying the current Mayor Mike Quill or councilmen Thomas McNabb is qualified to handle such a complicated and difficult task. In all seriousness I think McCain has lost his mind; or hes smokin' some of that green-goodness on his spare time! If this putz wins the election, then its our own country's fault - and will only show how ignorant and uneducated our society really is. Lord JEBUS help us (Jebus - refrencing Homer Simpson from a few Simpsons episodes, in case if any of you dont get it). "

longboard315 wrote on Aug 31, 2008 5:30 PM:

" "Hillary supporters, most likely Democrats or left leaning, should be appalled by this ploy to put a woman on McCain's ticket in hopes we will vote for any woman, even if we don't think she is a good choice. Would Hillary leave a four-month-old infant with Down's Syndrome behind while she goes out on the grueling campaign trail?"

2 Cents - this is probably the best paragraph I have read on your column to date! Finally you got off those dumb-dumb pills & wrote something that actually contains some substance....good for you! "

brew1234 wrote on Aug 31, 2008 5:17 PM:

" Anyone that supports Obama for president and is insured by Bud Gregg should terminate their insurance immediately. Let him know what cost his opinions hold. "

brew wrote on Aug 31, 2008 5:17 PM:

" Anyone that supports Obama for president and is insured by Bud Gregg should terminate their insurance immediately. Let him know what cost his opinions hold. "

brew1234 wrote on Aug 31, 2008 4:53 PM:

" Where do you get off saying you are correcting my post? The connotation of a barrcuda is not fiercely competitive, it is one who will use any means to win. Ethical or unethical as long as they win. The way her college teamates characterized her goes to an indication of her character. This bit of information is out there for you to judge but not for correction. "

1234567890p wrote on Aug 31, 2008 4:50 PM:

" All you Obama haters out there, just because he is (part) black, don't forget Biden is an expert on Foreign affairs. What has McSame got, but the alaskan governor, what foreign affair do they have? a prisoner of war doesn't cut it, neither does being gbov. If they win, you deserve what you get.. 4 more years of the last 8 years! "

AJ wrote on Aug 31, 2008 3:02 PM:

" FG, ask yourself this. Are candidates unelectable because the media says they are (possible threat to status quo?) or because they are not qualified/have no support? From what I have seen, the candidates who often get the best response from the masses are those that the media denounces as unelectable, and they are predictably those who pose the biggest threat. Take your pick of almost any major issue.

The media seems to perform a strategic function for the elite. You could even call it a Psyop. Make people think their own candidate is worthless, (the more of a threat to the status quo the more pressure they will exert) and get people to believe they have not a snowball's chance in heck of getting their candidate elected. Let's not forget that our own government has put tons of money into studying this stuff for use overseas - what do you think would stop them from using it here? "

Farmer's Gal wrote on Aug 31, 2008 2:48 PM:

" Yes, pentangelli, that would be wonderful -- IF IF IF we could actually get such a candidate on the ballot and VIABLE. But the masses aren't there, and until they are, voting for the best candidate is throwing your vote away. If there are enough throw-away votes, it does make a point (that voters are disgusted with the lack of choices), but when the alternative is a pair of dangerous nutcases, I feel compelled to vote against what's WORST for the country, my children and the future. "

movedsouth wrote on Aug 31, 2008 2:03 PM:

" AJ, that was actually correcting brews post. Important, no just factual. BTW using an opinion forum, DOES EVERYTHING HAVE TO BE IMPORTANT? "

AJ wrote on Aug 31, 2008 12:55 PM:

" Does this just make you feel good as an American? CAn you say fascism?

OCA's Alexis Baden-Mayer: "The cops said they'd shoot me!"

Story here:

http://www.grassrootsnetroots.org/articles/article_14423.cfm "

AJ wrote on Aug 31, 2008 11:30 AM:

" movedsouth wrote on Aug 31, 2008 10:00 AM:
" Sarah Barracuda came from HIGH SCHOOL basketball team for her competitiveness, NOW that's a bad thing! "

Maybe you could comment on something important for a change?

Let's face it - Palin is a dangerous choice. She lacks experience, is hot-headed, and way too inclined to inject her own religious beliefs into the discussion. This is NOT a good thing. Allah, Buddah, God, Mohammed forbid she ever gets the reigns of power in this country. "

karl wrote on Aug 31, 2008 11:29 AM:

" cm--you're right--I DID say "religion doesn't matter" now in thinking of it, so I stand corrected.
Well, now, in retrospect, I take that back--what I SHOULD have said is; "A candidate's religion doesn't matter as long as they don't GOVERN WITH that religion as a policy tool or guide!"
And that is where Obama/Palin would differ-GREATLY!
Please,--let's not get into the silly games of pretending that you don't know what I'm talking about--Palin is EXACTLY the kind of Fundamentalist NUT whose kind have so corrupted the government these last 8 years. Let's at least put that on the table, OK?
And let's not be coy about the fraud of Abstinence either OK? Come on--I've been personally campaigning to end this charade for years now--writing our Government and Representatives along with letters here to inform the public. So don't pretend I don't know that "Abstinence" is most definitely NOT the biggest part of Sexual Education! And if it IS, then THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT'S WRONG WITH ABSTINENCE FUNDING!
THAT'S why it needs to be STOPPED! It is ideological FRAUD, plain and simple--and study after study has PROVED it!
Joe Biden's Catholicism doesn't bother me one bit--it's a moderate Catholicism, just like I was raised with, and Biden has shown that he at least knows where to draw the line with pushing it into policy.
Your comments about Creationism are too ridiculous for me to even take seriously enough to attempt rebuttal! Honestly, you DO make yourself look silly with comments like that! LOL! "

yetanotherpinhead wrote on Aug 31, 2008 11:28 AM:

" Steve and Barry's has started a going out of business sale at the FL Mall over the last few days. Where's the Citizen story on the store closing? Many other local news outlets have already reported their stores demise, such as:

http://www.dailyfreeman.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=20099446&BRD=1769&PAG=461&dept_id=74969&rfi=6 "

pentangelli wrote on Aug 31, 2008 10:14 AM:

" Would it not be wonderful if we would all THINK past our biases and selected people for office that would do what was best for US....not what Fox or CNN etc says is best.....why should race, religion or personal beliefs enter into a decision that should be about WHAT'S BEST FOR US AND OUR CHILDREN. "

AJ wrote on Aug 31, 2008 10:11 AM:

" cm wrote on Aug 31, 2008 9:26 AM:
" karl be real: the biggest part of Education=Abstinence!
You were the one that said, weeks ago, religion doesn't matter! yet you are dumping on Palins choices. When Biden is a devoted Roman Catholic, following the same ideals of your parents!

Education will never be very effective at promoting abstinence. Humans are always going to want to do it. That's just the way we are wired. It can and does help cut down on unwanted pregnancy and STD though, which should be the predominant focus. "

movedsouth wrote on Aug 31, 2008 10:00 AM:

" Sarah Barracuda came from HIGH SCHOOL basketball team for her competitiveness, NOW that's a bad thing! "

cm wrote on Aug 31, 2008 9:26 AM:

" karl be real: the biggest part of Education=Abstinence!
You were the one that said, weeks ago, religion doesn't matter! yet you are dumping on Palins choices. When Biden is a devoted Roman Catholic, following the same ideals of your parents!

Teaching the fraud of Creationism??
The is NOT one scientific set of BONES that we are from APES. Everyday there are new FINDS, yet in all these years NOTHING, NADDA on the area of BONES!

gays: how do you know Biden would not vote to change the Constitution? Dont you blame Cheneys actions on life today?

Inexperience huh? You know you cant win that statement with a wanna pres. (Obama) with only 143 days at work, unable to make a decision...
"I am PRESENT"
"Present"
"yo, present"
"Yes, I mean NO, I mean, I am present"
"hello! I said I was Present"
"geesh! Don't you understand--PRESENT"
"PRESENT,PRESENT,PRESENT..how many times to do I have to say it, isn't over 100 times enough?"
"PRESENT is my vote, almost as many Presents as days I have officially worked in office" "

brew1234 wrote on Aug 31, 2008 1:14 AM:

" Her college nick name was Sarah Barracuda. That just about says it all. She used athletes to promote evangelical christianity to young kids and was a counselor for a evangelical indoctrination summer camp for vulnerable young children. I'm not questioning her experience but instead her beliefs. "

AJ wrote on Aug 30, 2008 10:40 PM:

" FG, I certainly understand the predicament here. It's just that if people would refuse to buy into the media projections and voted with their consciences, we'd get a better class of leaders. Of course, that's assuming the elections aren't rigged in the first place.

Anyhow, more dirt on Palin - she is looking VERY scary!! Except for the radical evangelicals, which I think hardly constitute a majority, I doubt she'll have very much support and will prove to be a liability more than anything, assuming, of course, the media doesn't "spin" her as something she is not.

Here is some dirt I received in my inbox today I highly recommend.

"John McCain's vice presidential choice, Sarah Palin, has a history as a small town mayor and novice Alaska governor of petty squabbles and retaliation, as Jason Leopold reports.

For the full story, go to Consortiumnews.com "

excnyer wrote on Aug 30, 2008 10:35 PM:

" Went to H-D drive train facility on Capital Drive yesterday for a tour where we had a brush with a celebrity. No, not Willie G. but Robert Patrick, from Terminator 2, was also touring the facility! "

AJ wrote on Aug 30, 2008 10:23 PM:

" Don't forget about the huge fire he caused on his carrier because he is an arrogant hothead Karl. The largest post WWII carrier fire in history.

The guy is a loose canon and nutcase, and it appears so is his new running mate. "

karl wrote on Aug 30, 2008 8:29 PM:

" Here's a good one about McCain:
From CNN's "McCain Revealed"--when McCain was in training for Combat Jet Flight School, he just blew off his training books and manuals, reading novels instead of familiarizing himself with the procedures and features of his aircraft.
So, when he muffed up a launch, and put his $25-million-of-tax-payers-dollars plane into the drink, he couldn't find the lever to blow the canopy off and almost died--HOW'S THAT FOR "JUDGMENT"?!
And there's people here who want to give this bum the keys to the White House?! "

karl wrote on Aug 30, 2008 8:24 PM:

" cm, you've lost any credibility with me whatsoever, but for the sake of others being taken in by your hogwash and selective reading, I will rebut.
Biden "Voted YES on $100M to reduce teen pregnancy BY EDUCATION AND CONTRACEPTIVES"--this is from YOUR CITED LINK.
I do, and have ALWAYS supported this 100%.
Palin, on the other hand, will foist more PROVEN-INEFFECTIVE "Abstinence" crap on our kids, fostering increased pregnancy rates and more STD's and ignorance.
"Religion doesn't matter"?!? Holy Hypocrisy, cm---is that YOU posting?
F.O.S again, you are.
Teaching the fraud of Creationism promotes scientific ignorance and has also been ruled ILLEGAL and Unconstitutional by the Supreme Court, but of course I'm not surprised that means nothing to you.
Biden may be prejudiced against Gays as are you, but Obama is NOT--and Biden would not vote to change the Constitution as would BOTH McCain and Palin--BIG difference.
Biden outshines the ridiculous Palin on every front. Would YOU trust this woman to run the country if McCain 's ticker gave out?
How naive. But hey, you've got your pride to consider, right? "

cm wrote on Aug 30, 2008 7:53 PM:

" Would Hillary leave a four-month-old infant with Down's Syndrome behind while she goes out on the grueling campaign trail?

something wrong with a stay-at-home DAD? "

cm wrote on Aug 30, 2008 7:51 PM:

" karl:
heres MY more:
1. religion doesn't matter, but if so Obama is white-racist Christain.
Biden: Religion informs my values; my reason dictates outcomes. (Jul 2007)
2. http://www.ontheissues.org/
2008/Joe_Biden_Abortion.htm
Biden voted YES 100 million, create and expand teen pregnancy prevention programs
(programs karl feel is useless)
3. our schools are already teaching creationism this year,
4. stem cell research is 'cloning' behind he curtain
5./6. No evidence she supports/opposes either statement
7. I agree with banning gay marriages too,as well as Biden:
Voted YES on prohibiting same-sex marriage. (Sep 1996)
8. One can request 'anyone' to visit or not visit at hospitals.
INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY!!!! get their own health insurance!

Biden:
Voted YES on reauthorizing the PATRIOT Act. (Mar 2006)
Voted YES on allowing another round of military base closures. (May 1999)
Supported Bush plan: both border fence & path to citizenship. (Nov 2007)

Troops out by 2013 if no political reconciliation. (Sep 2007)
Leaving Iraq will cause generation-long regional war. (Aug 2007)

Voted YES on allowing illegal aliens to participate in Social Security. (May 2006)
Voted NO on limit welfare for immigrants. (Jun 1997) "

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