Two Cents

Tuesday, August 19, 2008 10:55 PM EDT

Instead of the people boycotting "Tropic Thunder" for the use of the mentally challenged, they would be better off boycotting it for the language, which is downright uncalled for.
I wonder why you hear Skaneateles, Aurora and Owasco complain about truck traffic but you really don't hear too many people talk about it in downtown Auburn, especially North and South Street. You wonder why downtown is the way it is, it has become a horrible problem and I don't hear enough people in Auburn complain about it, especially the officials.

Could it be that alternate side parking makes it easier for the garbage trucks to roar through town?

I think the City of Auburn might as well pull up all of the stop signs in the city, as there are people who just don't understand what the word stop means. Mostly down there on the corner of North Division and Clark Street/the Arterial --- that's a very bad place; up on the corner of Clymer and Dunning Avenue is another place; and over on the corner of Thornton Ave. and Chapman Ave., that's another place.

Wonder why the state is broke? One reason is the outrageous pensions that school superintendents set themselves up for; case in point, Plume collects over $95,000 per year.




Two Cents will be updated online as new submissions are called or e-mailed. To contribute new Two Cents items, please call 253-5311 ext. 292 or e-mail twocents@lee.net.

The Citizens' Say

Post your comment - click here

There are 122 comment(s)

karl wrote on Aug 25, 2008 11:31 AM:

" cm, the difference is tat McCain's stay in Washington has corrupted and soured him into a Republican stooge, just like the rest of them. Biden is a respectable man.
McCain most definitely is NOT. He's betrayed nearly EVERY principle he used to have, ad flip-flopped more times than a suffocating fish out-of-water. "

cm wrote on Aug 25, 2008 8:15 AM:

" Biden saying he does not think Obama is "ready" to be president and that he would be "honored to run with or against McCain.

Biden has the foreign policy experience to help out Obama, but he is also more of the same, which will kind of hurt Obama's message of change.

Obama likes to allege that John McCain has been in Washington too long. Joe Biden has been there a decade longer.

FLIPPY/FLOPPY:
8/1 ----Obama admitted he would be OK with some offshore drilling
8/4---- Obama announced his support for drilling in the Strategic Petroleum Reserve to lower gas prices.

McCain hasnt picked his VP yet.. "

AJ wrote on Aug 24, 2008 10:38 PM:

" News you won't hear about in the American corporate media, including the Citizen, except right here.

Spanish Judge Calls for Bush to be Tried for War Crimes

Full story:

http://rockcreekfreepress.tumblr.com/post/35323739 "

movedsouth wrote on Aug 24, 2008 9:59 AM:

" AJ, the pot calling the kettle black? BTW, this IS an opinion column. "

AJ wrote on Aug 24, 2008 2:37 AM:

" cm wrote on Aug 23, 2008 9:00 PM:
" the 'geezer' comment was words karl stated about Mccain..yet his hero picks an oldie.. "

Cm, this is sound logic, if you believe in fantasy!

I cannot for the life of me figure out the appeal of either of these two actors. Things are really bad. "

AJ wrote on Aug 24, 2008 2:27 AM:

" Movedsouth, come back when you have something worthwhile to say.

Otherwise, keep your thoughts to yourself..

Please? "

karl wrote on Aug 24, 2008 12:48 AM:

" cm, why do I suspect that it wouldn't matter who Obama picked--you'd have something negative to say?
Hey, what about McCain picking Romney?!
They ought to call it the "Double-Floppers" ticket! "

cm wrote on Aug 23, 2008 9:00 PM:

" the 'geezer' comment was words karl stated about Mccain..yet his hero picks an oldie.. "

movedsouth wrote on Aug 23, 2008 8:50 PM:

" I think Cheney blowed up the towers and put silencers on the explosives. "

AJ wrote on Aug 23, 2008 6:57 PM:

" dd wrote on Aug 23, 2008 4:41 PM:
" Uh---AJ--Karl? Where are you guys---baffled with FACTS? Thought so. "

You, DD, are the one baffled by the facts. You prefer the rather strange science which dictates that physics laws were not working that day, and basic longstanding engineering principles suddenly and mysteriously stopped working as well.

In any event, your long pilfer from your physics book does not explain away the numerous and unquestionable anomalies, a few of which I have pointed out here. The only things that can are controlled demolition or specialized energy weapons. Since there is solid evidence of thermate, I'm leaning toward the former. "

karl wrote on Aug 23, 2008 6:48 PM:

" dd, what do you think--I don't have a life? I was up Beak-N-Skiff today--got some nice hard cider and some blueberry wine!
Anyhoo--you can argue with whoever you want about 9/11 and WTC.
The more I've learned about the Neocons, about their mentor/philosopher Leo Strauss and his "Noble Lie" ideas; the more I've seen the lies come out of Washington and the utter, callousness and indifference to our Constitution, our Rights, and the corruption of the Justice Department, the MORE-THAN-EVER I'm convinced that the Neocons under Dick Cheney and Paul Wolfowitz planned, or allowed to happen, 9/11--and that the WTC towers--PLUS Building #7--were brought down with explosive charges.
I BELIEVE IT MORE THAN EVER.
I'm sorry; I haven't even read your posts...I'm not even interested in arguing about it. "

dd wrote on Aug 23, 2008 4:41 PM:

" Uh---AJ--Karl? Where are you guys---baffled with FACTS? Thought so. "

dd wrote on Aug 23, 2008 4:39 PM:

" Oh, yea--Longboard--The buildings collapsed, JUST LIKE THEY WERE DESIGNED TO---STRAIGHT DOWN. "

quiveringthigh wrote on Aug 23, 2008 4:38 PM:

" A note of warning to everyone - Kool-Aid is BAD for you!! "

Not if it's ELECTRIC Kool Aid! "

AJ wrote on Aug 23, 2008 4:20 PM:

" OK, DD, since we now know you took physics, why is it you don't seem to understand it? How do you account for the laws of physics being suspended that day?

And again, the fires were not very hot, as indicated by the woman standing at one of the openings, all of the black smoke (an indication of a poorly burning low temperature, oxygen-starved fire), or the firefighter who indicated two hoses could have easily knocked down the fires on one of the floors. These are just a few examples off the top of my head. The steel was nowhere near melting or seriously weakening when the buildings collapsed. The structures were massive heat sinks. How do you account for the near free fall speed of the 3 towers with no resistance, especially considering the massive cores? How is it that everything but the steel was pulverized into fine dust? How would your physics book explain that away?

google "laws of physics" +wtc

Oh yeah, al CIA da, those mischievous old cave dwellers, were really top notch engineers huh? Pullleeeze get real!!. "

dd wrote on Aug 23, 2008 3:50 PM:

" No AJ I don't believe that the person was necessarily disgruntled, but why is it there is no undeniable proof of the theory you hold so near and dear? Longboard, AJ, and Karl--read on, and then check my info out with someone who truly understands physics, and engineering. I may paraphrase some of my info from my physics textbook. Anyone with any knowledge of combustion and melting knows that WTC is much more complicated than just burning, and falling down.

If it were purely a matter of temperature, then as soon as a fire reaches its maximum temperature, the buildings would have collapsed in seconds.

But it didn't take seconds, did it? It took nearly an hour before the first building fell. Why is that?

Because the problem isn't one of temperature, it is one of HEAT CAPACITY and THERMAL CONDUCTIVITY.

"Heat capacity is a measurable physical quantity that characterizes the ability of a body to store heat as it changes in temperature. It is defined as the rate of change of temperature as heat is added to a body at the given conditions and state of the body (foremost its temperature). In the International System of Units, heat capacity is expressed in units of joules per kelvin. It is termed an "extensive quantity" because it is sensitive to the size of the object (for example, a bathtub of water has a greater heat capacity than a cup of water). Dividing heat capacity by the body's mass yields a specific heat capacity (also called more properly "mass-specific heat capacity" or more loosely "specific heat"), which is an "intensive quantity," meaning it is no longer dependent on amount of material, and is now more dependent on the type of material, as well as the physical conditions of heating."

"In physics, thermal conductivity, k, is the intensive property of a material that indicates its ability to conduct heat.

It is defined as the quantity of heat, Q, transmitted in time t through a thickness L, in a direction normal to a surface of area A, due to a temperature difference ΔT, under steady state conditions and when the heat transfer is dependent only on the temperature gradient.

Thermal conductivity = heat flow rate × distance / (area × temperature difference) "

So, the poroblem here is not strictly one of temperature, but how much heat was being pumped into the steel, versus how quickly it could conduct that heat to other areas to cool itself down. If the steel conducts heat away from the fire faster than it is being pumped into the steel, the steel remains rigid. If heat is pumped into the steel faster than it can be conducted away, the temperature of the steel RISES ABOVE THE TEMPERATURE OF THE FIRE, eventually reaching the plastic deformation (softening) temperature. At that point, the steel girders deform, and the rest is purely momemtum (mass times velocity).

The supporting girders did not need to melt (liquify) to cause the buildings to collapse, they just needed to soften enough to deform and start the collapse.

Have you every broken a spoon by bending it back and forth? Heat is also generated by movement--the molecular structure is altered in the spoon by A LITTLE HEAT, and is weakend to the point of breaking it in two with your fingers.

No explosives are required, no CIA or FBI involvement, no mysterious conspiracies from the Federal government, nothing. No one to sneak into a building overnight, plant thousands of explosives, and put everything back so no one knew they were there.

Al-Qaeda terrorists knew their engineering far better than any of you idiots out there, and used that knowledge to bring down the towers. They have admitted it. "

movedsouth wrote on Aug 23, 2008 3:38 PM:

" AJ, I got the impression the towers were not built to todays standards. "

movedsouth wrote on Aug 23, 2008 3:07 PM:

" I would much rather take the the report from the NIST than a ONE former employee. He also stated that there are other possibilities and did not say it was bombs or explosives. Sound levels? I also wonder why some people believe that using steel I beams for floor supports can cause more damage in a house fire than laminated beams. Maybe because the the heat of the fire could cause the steel to twist. And for Bidens age, he is a few years younger not considerably younger. When you get there you will realize that. 1234567890p, maybe the delegates will wake up and nominate Hillary. WOW, would that shake up the party? "

AJ wrote on Aug 23, 2008 3:01 PM:

" Justaround, the fires were NOT hot enough to melt steel!!!! Nor were they hot or long lasting enough to considerably weaken it. Even if it/they were, you still would not see a global symmetrical collapse! The towers were built like brick sh!thouses. What happened to the core which at the very worst should have been left standing?

Your barbecue grill gets hotter than those fires did. Do you worry about the weight of your food collapsing the grate or worry about it melting? If you believe the official conspiracy theory you should.

A note of warning to everyone - Kool-Aid is BAD for you!! "

quiveringthigh wrote on Aug 23, 2008 2:11 PM:

" " this 2 cent column should be called 5 dollars. "

It should be called pocket fuzz. "

justaround wrote on Aug 23, 2008 2:08 PM:

" You can see an example of melted steel at the NYS Fair, a memorial tribute to 911 and the centers. A huge piece of steel beam on display as well that can show you what extreme heat can do to steel. "

AJ wrote on Aug 23, 2008 2:08 PM:

" So, DD, what makes you say the former employee was disgruntled? Is it just because he said something intelligent you don't agree with? (typical reaction)

Good one cm - you have just shown us your twisted logic at work again. McCain has one foot in the grave and you complain about Biden's age who is considerably younger. And no doubt you are/were an admirer of RayGun, who was also an old f@rt when he was elected.

Longboard315, nice to have someone else here who can see through the bull. Interesting fact - NIST refused to look for thermate residue, which is one thing that could EASILYexplain the collapse much more logically. Guess what? Many of the people in NIST have direct experience with and close connections to thermate. This info was discovered by Kevin Ryan and a few others in a meticulously documented work. Can you say cover-up? "

1234567890p wrote on Aug 23, 2008 12:55 PM:

" so Obama picked Biden (65) and MnCain is 72. Who's an old man now? When stuff comes out on Biden, OBAMA will be sorry he didn't pick Hillary! "

longboard315 wrote on Aug 23, 2008 12:54 PM:

" DD, regarding your thoughts on WTC: Fire does melt steel....however over a LONG period of time of consistent temperatures. Fuel burns @ 1500 degrees F, steel melts @ 2000 degrees F; and thats a fact as a family member works in a steel mill. No way that bldg should of fell the way it did. FYI: the 5ame thing happend in the 50's when a B-52 Bomber hit the empire state bldg, guess what? That bldg didnt collapse. Just think though - who (and what groups) stood to make billions off this tragedy? Defense Contractors, the World Bank, and a few very powerful people you or I dont even know about. Conspiracy theory might not be out of question when you look @ those facts. "

karl wrote on Aug 23, 2008 11:57 AM:

" cm--Biden, "an old geezer"?!?!
Ok, then--please explain exactly WHAT that makes John McCain?!?
"The Walking Dead"??!LOL! "

movedsouth wrote on Aug 23, 2008 11:02 AM:

" One would almost think Biden would be a better running-mate for McCain. Policies agree with McCain better than Obama. "

dd wrote on Aug 23, 2008 10:11 AM:

" So, what you are saying AJ, is that some bitter former employee of the US government seems to have a theory about WTC that differs from the official findings? So, why believe him over a group of other trained individuals? Why believe one person over everyone else--Yahtzee anyone? Proves my point that proof isn't proof until you or Karl agree witht he findings. Seems funny that everyone that disputes NIST findings is a "former" something or other. "

movedsouth wrote on Aug 23, 2008 9:56 AM:

" Obama picks running mate that voted for Iraq war. I guess he feels strongly both ways. "

cm wrote on Aug 23, 2008 7:10 AM:

" good AM Karl:
Obamas running mate -joe biden--a 'geezer' (65), and a bible thumper (Catholic), and as I am reading his 'life story' WOW there is so much more to come! "

mark wrote on Aug 23, 2008 1:44 AM:

" this 2 cent column should be called 5 dollars. "

anonymous wrote on Aug 23, 2008 12:24 AM:

" Why do the editors allow people to post copyright material without properly referencing it? They should really make an effort to stop the plagiarism "

AJ wrote on Aug 22, 2008 7:04 PM:

" Here ya go Chris... Put that in your bong and smoke it! "By the Way", I did get the sarcasm as I am sure did Karl.

You can find the following at
http://911blogger.com/node/17293 There are more links within the article.

Quintere:

"I have over 35 years of fire research in my experience. I worked in the fire program at NIST for 19 years, leaving as a division chief. I have been at the University of Maryland since. I am a founding member and past-Chair of the International Association for Fire Safety Science—the principal world forum for fire research."

“In my opinion, the WTC investigation by NIST falls short of expectations by not definitively finding cause, by not sufficiently linking recommendations of specificity to cause, by not fully invoking all of their authority to seek facts in the investigation, and by the guidance of government lawyers to deter rather than develop fact finding."

Alan Miller reports:

"Dr. Quintiere made his plea during his presentation, 'Questions on the WTC Investigations' at the 2007 World Fire Safety Conference. 'I wish that there would be a peer review of this,' he said, referring to the NIST investigation. 'I think all the records that NIST has assembled should be archived. I would really like to see someone else take a look at what they’ve done; both structurally and from a fire point of view.'”

“'I think the official conclusion that NIST arrived at is questionable,' explained Dr. Quintiere. 'Let's look at real alternatives that might have been the cause of the collapse of the World Trade Towers and how that relates to the official cause and what's the significance of one cause versus another.'”

"'I hope to convince you to perhaps become 'Conspiracy Theorists', but in a proper way,' he said."

--Former Chief of NIST's Fire Science Division Calls for Independent Review of World Trade Center Investigation, By Alan Miller, August 21, 2007, Oped News "

movedsouth wrote on Aug 22, 2008 3:54 PM:

" karl, thank you for your 2:15 post, I enjoyed it. Your post of 2:11 is just more of you blowing smoke. Maybe we should refer to you as bskarl. I will say you are not a hunt and peck typist. "

justventing wrote on Aug 22, 2008 3:44 PM:

" Went to the Fair Thursday, here are some prices:

Most vendors are selling a slice of pizza for 3.50. please do not buy it and support it.
Bottled water--most at 1.00 a Fair Price.
Sausauge Sandwich 5.50, also much too high, please do not support it.
--
See way too many overweight people anyway. They really do not need it.

Have Fun. "

AJ wrote on Aug 22, 2008 3:18 PM:

" Sure, queenie. What republican rag did you dredge up those fantasy statistics from? "

chris van note wrote on Aug 22, 2008 3:18 PM:

" Some good ones that I haven't seen before Karl.

Check this out from Glenn Beck on CNN regarding the US cities that rank the poorest...

Detroit, whose mayor has been indicted on felony charges, hasn't elected a Republican mayor since 1961. Buffalo has been even more stubborn. It started putting a Democrat in office back in 1954, and it hasn't stopped since.

Unfortunately, those two cities may be alone at the top of the poverty rate list, but they're not alone in their love for Democrats. Cincinnati, Ohio (third on the poverty rate list), hasn't had a Republican mayor since 1984. Cleveland, Ohio (fourth on the list), has been led by a Democrat since 1989. St. Louis, Missouri (sixth), hasn't had a Republican since 1949, Milwaukee, Wisconsin (eighth), since 1908, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania (ninth), since 1952 and Newark, New Jersey (10th), since 1907.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/20/beck.cities/index.html

I think the best way of doing good to the poor is not making them easy in poverty but leading them or driving them out of it.
Benjamin Franklin "

AJ wrote on Aug 22, 2008 3:15 PM:

" Those are great Karl - both reality based and funny, but also a bit tragic. "

movedsouth wrote on Aug 22, 2008 2:25 PM:

" I guess I was a couple of minutes late! "

movedsouth wrote on Aug 22, 2008 2:23 PM:

" cvn, enjoyed your post about liberals as humor, maybe we can find the same about conservatives. I would equally enjoy. "

karl wrote on Aug 22, 2008 2:15 PM:

" You Might Be A Republican If...

You think "proletariat" is a type of cheese.

You've named your kids "Deduction one" and "Deduction two"

You've tried to argue that poverty could be abolished if people were just allowed to keep more of their minimum wage.

You've ever referred to someone as "my (insert racial or ethnic minority here) friend"

You've ever tried to prove Jesus was a capitalist and opposed to welfare.

You're a pro-lifer, but support the death penalty.

You think Huey Newton is a cookie.

The only union you support is the Baseball Players, because heck, they're richer than you.

You think you might remember laughing once as a kid.

You once broke loose at a party and removed your neck tie.

You call mall rent-a-cops "jack-booted thugs."

You've ever referred to the moral fiber of something.

You've ever uttered the phrase, "Why don't we just bomb the sons of b!tches."

You've ever said, "I can't wait to get into business school."

You've ever called a secretary or waitress "Tootsie."

You answer to "The Man."

You don't think "The Simpsons" is all that funny, but you watch it because that Flanders fellow makes a lot of sense.

You fax the FBI a list of "Commies in my Neighborhood."

You don't let your kids watch Sesame Street because you accuse Bert and Ernie of "sexual deviance."

You scream "Incoming" while making love.

You've argued that art has a "moral foundation set in Western values."

You've ever yelled, "Hey hippie, get a haircut."

You think Birkenstock was that radical rock concert in 1969.

You argue that you need 300 handguns, in case a bear ever attacks your home.

Vietnam makes a lot of sense to you.

You point to Hootie and the Blowfish as evidence of the end of racism in America.

You've ever said civil liberties, schmivil schmiberties.

You've ever said "Clean air? Looks clean to me."

You've ever called education a luxury.

You look down through a glass ceiling and chuckle.

You wonder if donations to the Pentagon are tax-deductable.

You came of age in the '60s and don't remember Bob Dylan.

You own a vehicle with an "Ollie North: American Hero" sticker.

You're afraid of the "liberal media."

You ever based an argument on the phrase, "Well, tradition dictates...."

You ever told a child that Oscar the Grouch "lives in a trash can because he is lazy and doesn't want to contribute to society."

You've ever urged someone to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, when they don't even have shoes. "

karl wrote on Aug 22, 2008 2:11 PM:

" Chris, I'll see your "Reasons you might be a liberal" and raise you a "Things that Republicans Believe":
Things Republicans Believe

1. Being a drug addict is a moral failing and a crime, unless you’re a conservative radio host. Then it’s an illness and you need our prayers for your recovery.
2. The United States should get out of the United Nations, and our highest national priority is enforcing U.N. resolutions against Iraq.
3. Government should relax regulation of Big Business and Big Money but crack down on individuals who use marijuana to relieve the pain of illness.
4. “Standing Tall for America” means firing your workers and moving their jobs to India.
5. A woman can’t be trusted with decisions about her own body, but multi-national corporations can make decisions affecting all mankind without regulation.
6. Jesus loves you, and shares your hatred of homosexuals and Hillary Clinton.
7. The best way to improve military morale is to praise the troops in speeches while slashing veterans’ benefits and combat pay.
8. Group sex and drug use are degenerate sins unless you run for governor of California as a Republican.
9. If condoms are kept out of schools, adolescents won’t have sex.
10. A good way to fight terrorism is to belittle our long-time allies, then demand their cooperation and money.
11. HMOs and insurance companies have the interest of the public at heart.
12. Providing health care to all Iraqis is sound policy. Providing health care to all Americans is socialism.
13. Global warming, and tobacco’s link to cancer, are junk science, but creationism should be taught in schools.
14. Saddam was a good guy when Reagan armed him, a bad guy when Bush’s daddy made war on him, a good guy when Cheney did business with him and a bad guy when Bush needed a “we can’t find Bin Laden” diversion.
15. A president lying about an extramarital affair is an impeachable offense. A president lying to enlist support for a war in which thousands die is solid defense policy.
16. Government should limit itself to the powers named in the Constitution, which include banning gay marriages and censoring the Internet.
17. The public has a right to know about Hillary’s cattle trades, but George Bush’s driving record is none of our business.
18. You support states’ rights, which means (former) Attorney General John Ashcroft can tell states what local voter initiatives they have a right to adopt.
19. What Bill Clinton did in the 1960s is of vital national interest, but what Bush did in the ’80s is irrelevant.
20. Trade with Cuba is wrong because the country is communist, but trade with
China and Vietnam is vital to a spirit of international harmony. "

theking wrote on Aug 22, 2008 2:08 PM:

" hey karl and aj i thought you might like to know the fact that people who are on public assistance had 3 times the children that people who are not on public assistance had. thats great news. i cant wait to give more of my hard earned money away to dirtbags who have more and more kids because our system will give them more and more money. "

dd wrote on Aug 22, 2008 2:08 PM:

" Karl, was it your friend in Europe that makes $80,000 a year after 3 years in the USAF that told you the building exploded with some help from the gubment? I mean, what more proof do you need that heat from fire melts steel? Hello, heat melts steel. Now, what makes heat? Say it with me, fuego, fire, or depending on what county in NY you're from, fur. Rosie O'Donnel said in her confident manner on her now cancelled tv show, that she had never seen fire melt steel. What the hell kind of comment is that? You can't melt it with bunny rabbits, or puppy dogs, or the neighbor's kids, unless they are all.....on fire. Inasmuch as you'd like to believe that the buildings were built the withstand sever heat, weather, and pressure, it may be true that the dynamics of the structure were overstated. Kind of like your appliance salesman telling you that your new dishwasher will clean anything, but when you get it home it works great on some things, but fails the tough tests. "

dd wrote on Aug 22, 2008 1:55 PM:

" Karl and AJ treat the scientific proof with regard to WTC like my grandmother with Alzheimers plays Yahtzee.....just keep rolling until all of the dice match what you want. They have their ridiculous theory that the government planned, and carried out the attack--along with imploding another building: however with the proof at hand that the building collapsed on its own, they want to keep reading reports until they find one that suits their idiotic theory. "

AJ wrote on Aug 22, 2008 1:26 PM:

" CVN, you really are an interesting piece of work.

"By the way", where did you pilfer the "stuff" from for your latest post? "

AJ wrote on Aug 22, 2008 12:48 PM:

" CVN, I can see how those "funnies" may be funny to someone living in an alternate universe, which pretty much describes you.

RE the WTC - Did you look at the picture on the link I posted? It does not get ANY clearer than that. One would have to be a complete idiot to see that picture and STILL believe the official nonsense.

One does not have to have any training in engineering to see the outlandishness of the official story, you only, as Karl says, need a decent set of eyeballs. Having any training in engineering helps, but is not required. Same with physics.

Of course a brain helps too, and I think that is probably where you have the biggest problem. "

chris van note wrote on Aug 22, 2008 12:36 PM:

" You'd have to be on drugs to believe some of the conspiricy nonsense you and AJ talk about Karl...
(btw, it was a sarcastic remark about the bong...work you your reading comprehension)

I've got a couple of 9/11 theories for you, they should be right up your alley.

Scientists prepared the latest report on WTC 7.

It is said that science "illuminates" things for mankind.

"Illuminate" comes from the same word as "Illuminati".

Everyone knows that the Illuminati are the Zionist conspiracy.

This shows that the Jews invented science and are all part of the conspiracy.

Here's another:

Science is just a convient way of saying "Lizard Overlords", it's just to convince all the sheeple that the mad men Bushitler/Cheney are trying to trick us into their phony wars to distract us from the true problem, which is sprinkler rainbows and chemtrails. "

1234567890p wrote on Aug 22, 2008 12:17 PM:

" Obama want to end the war, while McCain wants to extend it. Mc is 4 more years of Bush politics. I guess it time for a change. I am not a bigot. I wonder who he picked? I guess we'll all find out on Sat., 23rd. The Democratic convention starts on Monday, 8/25. Should be interresting. Won't it! "

karl wrote on Aug 22, 2008 11:36 AM:

" BTW, Chris--you don't NEED training as a structural engineer to see that Building #7 was blown with explosives. All you need is a pair of eyes and a fair degree of skepticism.
I'm seriously laughing under my breath that you or anyone would believe this cockamamie story about fire bringing down that building! Sheesh! LOL!
Have you gone blind? "

karl wrote on Aug 22, 2008 11:32 AM:

" Chris, more so than anything I've read on this site, I'm disturbed by your "...hits bong" comment.
I can't believe that you're toking marijuana while you're reading this site!
But you're right--now it DOES make sense to see where you're coming from! Please seek some drug counseling!!!!
I HAAAAAAAATE DRUG ABUSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! "

chris van note wrote on Aug 22, 2008 11:13 AM:

" Some funnies from John Hawkins:
http://townhall.com/columnists/JohnHawkins/2008/08/22/25_reasons_you_might_be_a_liberal_part_2

Reasons You Might Be A Liberal

* You tell everyone who'll listen that Bush is "worse than Hitler" and that Republicans are fascists, but you never stop to consider that if that were true, you'd be dead or in a gulag already.

* You blame the oil companies for high gas prices, but believe in doing everything humanly possible to keep them from drilling for more oil.

* You'd have no problem with a Democratic President talking with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad or Kim Jung-Il without conditions, but would be very upset if he started seriously negotiating with Republicans over national security or energy issues.

* You don't see a conflict between "supporting the troops" and trying to insure that they lose the war that they're fighting.

* You believe that conservative criticism of Barack Obama's abilities is primarily driven by racism, but actual race-based criticism leveled at Clarence Thomas, Michelle Malkin, and Condi Rice by liberals obviously has nothing to do with race.

* You believe that fanatical Muslims who want to fly planes into our skyscrapers aren't a serious threat to the U.S., but Christians are.

* You continually claim that we don't do enough for the poor, but you want to add 12-20 million more of them to the ranks by giving illegal aliens American citizenship. "

chris van note wrote on Aug 22, 2008 9:47 AM:

" Something funny I found on the
Al Gore(tm) interwebs:

This is one that I'm sure Karl and AJ would believe...

My theory? The socks that go missing from your dryer are actually stolen by Rovian operatives, then sent to a clandestine boot camp in Scotland where they are trained in the nefarious art of musical parody, all for the purpose of distracting the people of the world's nations from the One World agenda.

BIG LAUNDRY IS SELLING US OUT! "

chris van note wrote on Aug 22, 2008 9:45 AM:

" karl wrote on Aug 21, 2008 8:38 PM:
" Chris, I saw the report about the NIST on CNN today--I actually, literally guffawed out loud (it was so weird!-like an involuntary guffaw-vomit!)
I dismissed it out of hand. Pure fantasy. Ridiculous!
Just another government industry paid to come up with whatever nonsense they were told to find. Like the WMD's---remember that Cheney had a phony, butt-covering letter written purport the lie that there was some justification for going to war so he and his cronies could get rich off a war."

Although Karl has no training as an engineer-structural or otherwise-he states he knows more than actual degreed materials and structural PHDs and PEs employed by one of the premier testing laboratories on the planet.

And remember OJ was on the grassy knoll.

The Federal government can't even deliver a functioning FEMA trailor, how are they going to rig 3 skyscrapers with explosives after dark, then re-do the drywall in the morning so nobody notices

***hits bong***

Oh, wait. It all makes sense now.

And Karl, you must have missed the 550 tons of yellow cake uranium that we moved out of Iraq earlier this year. "

movedsouth wrote on Aug 22, 2008 8:59 AM:

" karl, I'm not trying to prove YOU wrong, just trying to keep up with your stories. Let's see, he makes $80k/yr, I'm "guessing" at the low end, and the fact that someone told you. BLOWING SMOKE! We still have no idea of rank and or years of service. "The bottom line is that this guy has a HUGE European house, filled with antiques, TWO sports cars--one brand new, the other a "classic"--and is attempting to purchase an ancient castle/fortress to turn into a business. That doesn't come cheap, boys". While $80k is a good salary, I don't believe it would support that lifestyle. "

cm wrote on Aug 22, 2008 7:58 AM:

" many units in the N.Guard are trained for special opps including medical, maybe it is them that go first depending on what is needed.
With 9,000 NG's in Florida alone, it seems to prove that even if 10 units @ 50 per unit=500 people, go overseas,
MANY are still left here for a national emergency.

Karl: if your pal with 3yrs in, even as an officer is honestly making 80grand+ a year, he is selling drugs on the side!

(the comment is from MY military pals) "

Farmer's Gal wrote on Aug 22, 2008 7:24 AM:

" I was thinking more along the lines of helping clean up next time New Orleans is wiped out by a hurricane. It will happen again and it's just foolish to keep rebuilding it, esp. rebuilding it as it was! But we have fires, earthquakes and mudslides in California, flooding here and there everywhere, tornados, hurricanes, etc. And that's just when we don't have terrorists -- internal or external -- blowing things up. The Guard should be HERE at home. "

AJ wrote on Aug 22, 2008 1:08 AM:

" Hey Karl, since I don't watch television, let me guess. Being the good liberals that they are, they thoroughly discredited the report, right? /sarcasm

All of the media outlets handling of any 911 story is so predictable, just like Chris and so many other sycophants here. Thats what has made things so easy for the jerks who pulled off the whole event to get away with it - the media helps to cover up instead of doing their jobs.

Goebels would have been very proud.

Fortunately, for now anyhow, we still have the internet. For how long is anyone's guess, but it is our last hope of reaching critical mass on the subject. "

quiveringthigh wrote on Aug 22, 2008 12:11 AM:

" Hi! I am back! I recently moved and have been away from the internet. I see things are like popcorn here still. Got my bass set up and my drums, too. The new place has less neighbors and a better view! Totally Lovin' it! I received a late BDay present from my brother. It is funding some new Drum goodies! Besides a couple new drum heads, I will be adding a pedal activated Cowbell! That makes 3 places for my left foot to access and still 1 for the right. I will soon be getting something to keep the right foot moving. Totally LOVING the drums! I only wish I started 25 years ago, I would probably be good!!! Got to play my bass Saturday night for a gig. Putting on a new set of Ernie Ball's and testing my power and speakers for it. I will most likely use the 2x15 and 4x10 cab. I will DI into the PA, but the stage will have more personality! I am so psyched! I love my band. No Attitudes! Just good fun and Rock! Next year I intend on being a drummer in a side band! MEntors for the drums are Tommy Igoe,Ginger Baker, and Thomas Lang! Check them out if you want! Peace and Love! I'm a cold Italian Pizza... Could use a Lemon Squeeza.... Rolling Stones! Hail Charlie Watts "

anonymous wrote on Aug 21, 2008 9:31 PM:

" Farmer Gal is right. We should keep the National Guard close in case we decide we need to shoot up a bunch of students. "

ranger walker wrote on Aug 21, 2008 9:27 PM:

" 80k in 3 years? either he a general or the biggest brownnoser i ever saw, i did 12 years usmc 3 years national guard and never made that much, so either he writing to you with letters ful of lies , making himself look like a 1 man army or else he is getting too much pay in his pay checks, i dunno, all you have to do is go to a recruiting office and ask for a pay scale, if he is enlisted, in 3 years he only be a e3/04 or iff officer maybe a 1st lieutennant,if u actually belive he makes 80k a year, i have some prime swampland in syracuse i will sell you "

karl wrote on Aug 21, 2008 8:38 PM:

" Chris, I saw the report about the NIST on CNN today--I actually, literally guffawed out loud (it was so weird!-like an involuntary guffaw-vomit!)
I dismissed it out of hand. Pure fantasy. Ridiculous!
Just another government industry paid to come up with whatever nonsense they were told to find. Like the WMD's---remember that Cheney had a phony, butt-covering letter written purport the lie that there was some justification for going to war so he and his cronies could get rich off a war.
I figured you to jump all over it like a sacred text.
Guess what, Chris--I've already had the courage to completely dismiss the Bible after being told I would burn in hell for all eternity.
I don't need to even second-guess the accuracy of that report. Any moron can see that that building was blown with demolition explosives.
Not surprised that you wouldn't admit it though. Truth hurts, especially when it comes to facing the truth about they who would squander your life and that of your comrades-in-arms for a little oil, a little profit. You almost NEED to believe in "terrorists"!
I'll have a piece of tofu and a cappuccino for you.. "

karl wrote on Aug 21, 2008 8:29 PM:

" movedsouth, dd, Chris--You guys really crack me up. Blaming ME for someone else's salary.
You see, here's where you guys are so predictable--and so misguided and mislead. You believe that if you can prove me wrong--for a fact which I was told by someone who has no reason to lie to me--that you can "spin" the argument away from the salient and really, the only relevant fact here--that people DO join the military for the monetary gain.
Pretty standard Republican/Conservative fare; I'm decidedly unimpressed.
The bottom line is that this guy has a HUGE European house, filled with antiques, TWO sports cars--one brand new, the other a "classic"--and is attempting to purchase an ancient castle/fortress to turn into a business. That doesn't come cheap, boys.
Discuss amongst yourselves; I have only one more thing to say here tonight,...and that is..... "

movedsouth wrote on Aug 21, 2008 8:04 PM:

" cvn, I'm sure there are people around that have done EXTENSIVE research to dispute that report. You should know that George hired some Muslim terrorists, not hard to find, to fly some some planes so he could blow up the towers. "

Farmer's Gal wrote on Aug 21, 2008 7:44 PM:

" My comment was what the National Guard SHOULD do -- so whether they have fought abroad in the past or not isn't relevant to me. (Hence you are right -- I didn't bother to look it up).

To me, you have Army, Air Force, Marines and Navy to fight abroad (not to mention the CIA and their operatives, and don't get me started on Blackwater and their ilk), and you have a Coast Guard and a National Guard to STAY AT HOME and GUARD our national borders as well as being on hand for emergencies.

The National Guard's purpose SHOULD BE to GUARD the people at home and leave the foreign fighting to the other military forces. You send too many of those who SHOULD be guarding our nation abroad, and you don't have enough left to protect the people at home, or to serve in time of disaster.

I'm not commenting on what is, except to note how stupid it is -- I'm commenting on what I believe it SHOULD be -- National Guard should be what the name implies -- those who remain on our national soil guarding it, as the Coast Guard should remain around our coasts, guarding our shores. "

AJ wrote on Aug 21, 2008 7:06 PM:

" I don't know why this didn't appear before my previous post so hopefully it will show up this time. I think this cartoon really sums up NIST's explanation!

http://www.sciencecartoonsplus.com/images/miracle3.gif "

AJ wrote on Aug 21, 2008 6:56 PM:

" Having an accusation of "cherry picking" from the world renowned cherry picker himself is really quite an honor! Ok, not really.

Chris you really are gullible. I've already seen enough of the report to know it's mostly a fantasy. One column fails and the rest follow? Sure, in your dreams, but that is not how buildings are built and that is not how things work in the real world. Then of course there are the eyewitness reports which contradict the official BS.

But it's no use trying to convince you - you still believe that the symmetrical collapses of the two other towers were the result of planes and fires. Go study a little physics and engineering before and then come back and tell me that the laws of physics were suspended for that one day and you still believe the official nonsense.

I have pointed this out before and I'll continue to do so whenever we're on the topic and you still do not understand. Look at the top of the WTC leaning just before it disintegrated! If you don't believe your own eyes on this one, then you must believe in magic.

http://heiwaco.tripod.com/nist.htm "

chris van note wrote on Aug 21, 2008 6:09 PM:

" Way to cherry pic AJ. You need to read the whole report, its quite interesting and enlightening.

I wonder what the 9/11 troofers are going to do now? Of course they'll try and discredit the report by NIST's staff of engineers, both PEs and PHDs as some kind of Bush cover up.

I find it funny that the left calls President Bush dumb in one breath but then claim that he orchestrated the biggest cover-up of US history. "

AJ wrote on Aug 21, 2008 4:44 PM:

" http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/releases/wtc082108.html

"According to the report, a key factor leading to the eventual collapse of WTC 7 was thermal expansion of long-span floor systems at temperatures “hundreds of degrees below those typically considered in current practice for fire resistance ratings." WTC 7 used a structural system design in widespread use."

Well McFly, er, Chris, if you really believe this nonsense I suggest you stay away from all skyscrapers.

This is some patently absurd stuff here. "

chris van note wrote on Aug 21, 2008 3:50 PM:

" Hey Karl, you should run out for some tin foil to make yourself a new hat.

The NIST report on WTC building 7.

http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/releases/wtc082108.html

"NIST WTC Lead Investigator Shyam Sunder. “Heating of floor beams and girders caused a critical support column to fail, initiating a fire-induced progressive collapse that brought the building down.”

"The investigators also reported that if the city water main had not been cut by the collapse of World Trade Center towers 1 and 2 (WTC 1 and WTC 2), operating sprinklers in WTC 7 would likely have prevented its collapse."

This should put to rest the absurd conspiracy theories that spawned a cottage industry of freaks, weirdos, oddballs and other assorted human debris.

I can hear Karl and AJ now..."I'm not an expert but...Bushitler, Halliburton, arrggghhh!!!!!." "

excnyer wrote on Aug 21, 2008 3:39 PM:

" Here we are in Illinois. No entrance/parking fees for State Parks! 150 year celebration of Lincoln-Douglas debates. Ottawa, IL, site of 1st debate 8/21/1858. Acres of corn and soybeans. Not many twisty/winding roads for the Harley, but we're enjoying the week here. Next week, it's 105th H-D /25th HOG anniversary in Milwaukee. After that, headed for the southwest! "

dd wrote on Aug 21, 2008 3:31 PM:

" Sorry Frebus--I did mean to refer to the kid with three years experience never approaching $80k, even with combat pay, etc.--typo--
Even my cousin does not make that with his 12 years. "

FREBUS wrote on Aug 21, 2008 3:17 PM:

" dd
If you want to see all the additional allowances the military gets, google military pay charts 2008. Open MILITARY TABLES and then you will se how much everyone makes. "

FREBUS49 wrote on Aug 21, 2008 2:58 PM:

" dd
Your cousin is an O-4 with over 12 yrs.
His base pay is $6,088.20 per month or
$73,058.40 per year. If he has dependents and a housing allowance he would easly make over $80,000 per year.Perhaps he doesn't want the relatives at home,knowing how much he really makes. "

Andy b wrote on Aug 21, 2008 2:56 PM:

" Possibly Karl's friend is a contractor working for the USAF? "

FREBUS49 wrote on Aug 21, 2008 2:48 PM:

" Karl,
It is possible that your friend makes that kind of $$$ but he would have to be a Colonel with over 3yrs service.
According to the 2008 military pay charts he would be getting
$6,307.80 per month plus any housing allowances and special duty pay.
If he were a junior officer, O-1 he would be getting $3,215.10 per month
In order for him to become a Colonel with three yrs service he would have to be in a very critical field. "

movedsouth wrote on Aug 21, 2008 2:32 PM:

" More blowing smoke from karl, "guessing" at the low side of his salary. I still have NO idea of how long he has been in the service, but that's karl. I still believe the NG should be in the states guarding our borders. Deport every illegal alien period. If they have kids born here, it's up to them where they want them to live. If I get caught for speeding, I pay the price. They broke the law coming here, send them back. And I don't want to here that it would be taking their kids away from their parents, they can take them with them. "

dd wrote on Aug 21, 2008 2:24 PM:

" Oh Karl--you can toss us the facts without exposing you 007 friend, can't you? "

dd wrote on Aug 21, 2008 2:23 PM:

" Karl, your friend is full of crap. I just spoke to my cousin, who is a Major with the USAF stationed in Germany, and works for a coalition in the U.N. He has been in the Air Force for 12 years, and will never reach the figures even with combat pay, housing allowance, etc. So, I guess your buddy is either a liar, or is being paid by some secret branch of the military to repair radar systems, like any other highschool dropout who gets his GED, and joins the military. If people were earning 80k a year in the military, everyone would join. "

dd wrote on Aug 21, 2008 2:07 PM:

" I love all of this talk about people who join the military by their own accord, and agree to protect the interests of the US, and are "forced" into fighting an illegal war. Who has decided that this is an illegal war? You, AJ? You, Karl? Oh, and Brew, wasn't it Lincoln who said--"Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer." Just a thought...... "

lolward wrote on Aug 21, 2008 1:28 PM:

" It's common sense that if you join the military you will go to war. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just plain stupid. I am an active duty US Marine, and have been for 3 years. No one twisted my arm and made me join. I made a committment to my country and the Marine Corps. They could send me into France for all I care because they are orders and you follow them. Like it or not, there is no time or need for personal opinions in the military. I fight for my brothers, not the political crap associated with it. As for the National Guard, they are part of the US Army and as such are required to serve overseas just as I am. I see no difference besides that they are also a homeland force as well. "

karl wrote on Aug 21, 2008 12:45 PM:

" Sorry Chris--my knowledge of the military has nothing to do with my friend's salary--nor does your disbelief of it change the fact.
There are more facts I could throw at you, but out of respect for his privacy, I'll hold my tongue.
Still, I may be guessing on the LOW SIDE of his salary. The kid is just raking it in.
I can understand how maybe grunts and the cannon fodder don't see that kind of money, but I believe he IS some sort of officer cadet something-or-other. And yes, he makes that kind of money. Deal with it. "

Farmer's Gal wrote on Aug 21, 2008 12:19 PM:

" Thanks, Rich -- good luck with the server problem. "

chris van note wrote on Aug 21, 2008 12:16 PM:

" Farmer's Gal wrote on Aug 21, 2008 10:30 AM:
" The National Guard should be at home, guarding the national borders and helping with emergencies -- they should never, ever be sent abroad. That is not their purpose. No wonder they messed up at Abu Ghraid (sp?) -- they did NOT sign on for that kind of duty. It is totally inappropriate to send the National Guard abroad. "

Must be clueless day today...
The National Guard is a dual state-Federal force and a reserve force for the U.S. Army. The Guard has fought in every war since the Civil War. For example: 40% of the U.S. combat divisions in France during WW 1, 75,000 Army and Air Guardsmen were called up for Desert Storm in 1991, and many more examples too numerous to list.

Its called Google FG, do a little checking before writing. "

movedsouth wrote on Aug 21, 2008 12:15 PM:

" I also believe the National Guard should be kept in the states. "

1234567890p wrote on Aug 21, 2008 12:10 PM:

" This is an illegal & unjust was It has cost us millions, for what? Bush is a very stubborn Texan, he got us in & doesn't know how to get out. Iraq/afhhjanistan does not want us there, & an untold number have been kiulled & many are wounded, losing eyes, limbs, arms, etc. Bush dosn't care, hew should stop listenind to the brass. "

nature lover wrote on Aug 21, 2008 12:07 PM:

" vic wrote on Aug 20, 2008 5:11 PM:

" Auburn can't complain about the big trash trucks going through it as its the destination for all the trash.

Vic, Auburn CAN complain (and so can, Aurora, Skaneateles, Watkins Glen, etc) about the trash trucks because they are NOT going to Division St. They are going to Seneca Meadows (love that word "meadows"). A destination fastest made by using the thruway or Rt 81. What happened to the bill passed by Patterson to force these NYC trash haulers back to designated routes. I read there was a 6 month moratorium or something but lost track of it. Anyone? "

Citizen editors wrote on Aug 21, 2008 11:49 AM:

" To Two Cents users:

We've been experiencing Internet server problems, which is why our site is not as current as it should be and why posts were not approved as quickly as they should be. We're working to fix the problem and apologize for the inconvenience. "

Farmer's Gal wrote on Aug 21, 2008 10:30 AM:

" The National Guard should be at home, guarding the national borders and helping with emergencies -- they should never, ever be sent abroad. That is not their purpose. No wonder they messed up at Abu Ghraid (sp?) -- they did NOT sign on for that kind of duty. It is totally inappropriate to send the National Guard abroad. "

Hoho wrote on Aug 21, 2008 10:23 AM:

" I have been reading Two Cents everyday for almost ten years now, and I have to say, I am tired of people complaining about the ways things are run in Auburn. This is one of the most beautiful, well taken care of places I've had the pleasure of calling my home, and the rest of you ought to get your eyes off the potholes and enjoy this wonderful city we live in. "

chris van note wrote on Aug 21, 2008 10:15 AM:

" Clueless Karl doesn't know anything about the military...80K a year with only 3 years experience? You'd have to come in at an O-7 (Brigadier General or Rear Admiral (Lower Half)) rank to make that kind of money. Maybe if the person came out of retirement for a short period of time they may reinstate them to their previous rank. "

movedsouth wrote on Aug 21, 2008 9:17 AM:

" I can believe someone could be in the Air Force and has lived in Germany for 3 years could be making $80k/yr. BUT, I find it hard to believe that he would have just 3 years of service. "

genegirl59 wrote on Aug 21, 2008 8:45 AM:

" I didn't see Karl's post, but from the comments I am assuming that he thinks all the military are making big bucks. My husband was in the military during the Vietnam era (draftee) and I don't think the situation is much different today. At one point, we were stationed in Washington, D.C. where the only place we could afford was a cockroach-infested apartment. We did not have a telephone because we couldn't afford it. In addition to that, we were eligible for food stamps! We had a year-old baby. This was after 3 years of military service. "

chris van note wrote on Aug 21, 2008 8:39 AM:

" Wow Karl, Keith Olbermann? The bastion of unbiased reporting? Fantastic.

I can't wait until all the stuff Obama has said and who he has associated with in the past comes to light.

Lets see: Rev. Wright, Bill Ayers, Tony Rezko, and the list goes on and on... "

Farmer's Gal wrote on Aug 21, 2008 8:14 AM:

" Here we go -- once I had the name, I looked up the Wikipedia article. His name is Ehren Watada, and he was willing to serve in Afghanistan, but not in Iraq, as it is is conscientious belief that the war there was perpetrated based on lies, so the Congress was misled and hence it is not a legal war, and hence against his oath. He was court-martialed, but a mistrial was declared. He also has since won a claim for double jeopardy when they tried to court martial him a second time on the same charge.

Interestingly, the judge in the first court martial ruled that the court was unable to decide if the order to deploy was unlawful or not.

And I see he has been joined by an American of apparently French background (not that their ancestry makes any difference -- it just stuck in my mind and helped me confirm I had found the right case) -- one Matthis Chiroux.

The wikipedia article has a link to his video explaining his position. "

Farmer's Gal wrote on Aug 21, 2008 8:02 AM:

" Here's a different one:

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080516144757.0ds7otes&show_article=1

BTW, I am posting this at 8:01 AM -- and there are no posts here since 3:51 PM yesterday. That's about 15-16 hours since the last update -- and that's really crummy. "

Farmer's Gal wrote on Aug 21, 2008 7:59 AM:

" "under God" is not law. It's the wording in one version of a voluntary pledge.

What happens when part one of the oath taken by a member of the military is in conlict with parts two and three?

Looks like there were at least 9 posts just sitting there unposted for a good 7+ hours. Where do we go to make an official complaint?

I have to go try to find the details on that fella who refused to fight in what he felt after searching his heart was an unconstitutional war -- I am pretty sure he HAD fought in other actions and was willing to do so again, so it wasn't that he signed up for the military then we unwilling to fight. He really believes the war in Iraq is unconstitutional and as such, to fight is against his conscience and his oath. All I can remember about him was that he was Asian-American of some sort -- will have to dig to find his name and the details of his case.

But, hey, I AM a librarian.... "

irritated wrote on Aug 21, 2008 7:08 AM:

" I thought this newspaper went to an AM format?? Why then is every article on here this morning from Yesterday?? Maybe some fantastic breaking story has everyone tied up at the presses. But this is the Citizen so probably not. "

brew1234 wrote on Aug 21, 2008 1:53 AM:

" These guys that signed up for the national guard were told before the Iraq War that they would just have to attend monthly meetings and if a war broke out the regular army would go to war and the guard would cover the bases at home. They will never send you overseas. The recruiters lied or the top brass lied. But they were deceived. "

Unknown... wrote on Aug 20, 2008 9:07 PM:

" I can't believe they are considering expanding the bottle bill. Are they crazy?? Like I don't have enough crap to haul back to the store as it is. Not to mention the added cost of deposits. It's just another scheme to make money. "

karl wrote on Aug 20, 2008 8:34 PM:

" cm, it has nothing to do with the Law, it has to do with a personal decision to either embrace or reject a point of view. I'll say "under God" (and grit my teeth saying it) when you accept that Gays have EVERY RIGHT to marry in a civilized, equitable and modern society.
The great thing is, the way the wind is blowing, I know that Gays will eventually be able to marry EVERYWHERE-it will be the same as interracial marriage.
And with a little luck, the pledge will be returned to its ORIGINAL, INTENDED wording. Think about it--why does a patriotic expression have to be tinged with something as foul as Religion? Doesn't loving your country count enough? "

karl wrote on Aug 20, 2008 8:30 PM:

" My friend is in the Air Force, lives in Germany in a HUGE house filled with antiques, and makes obscene money. He is in his 3rd year there and works with some technical aspect of the radar units. He makes a LOT of moolah. "

vic wrote on Aug 20, 2008 5:11 PM:

" Auburn can't complain about the big trash trucks going through it as its the destination for all the trash. "

nature lover wrote on Aug 20, 2008 4:47 PM:

" Ya movedsouth..I was curious of that line also that a 22 yr old in the Air Force would make $80k. I have friends, very high rank in their 50's, pilots that are just clearing that now. Not ruling out that this 22 y o isnt a rocket scientist or brain surgeon prodigy but sounds like one of those embellishment stories when two piers get together and its the I can top u - keep up w/the joneses' line. "

movedsouth wrote on Aug 20, 2008 3:51 PM:

" karl, this $80k/yr could you tell me what rank and HOW MANY years service? I don't want anything personal or maybe what branch, but you don't get that for just being in there for a couple of years. Maybe you are just blowing smoke from your a$$ like most of your posts. "

cm wrote on Aug 20, 2008 3:29 PM:

" FG: somethings been going wacky with the posts!! they are taking ALL day to post,
and I didnt post mine twice, as something must have happened at the home office(web) "

nature lover wrote on Aug 20, 2008 3:22 PM:

" YES !! FG..I thought it was me but the last post was your 8:04 one till now then they added the rest...very stifling and boring..hop to it editors!! what gives? "

Farmer's Gal wrote on Aug 20, 2008 3:03 PM:

" Is it just me, or are Two Cents posts getting posted a whole lot less frequently (thereby stifling back and forth conversation considerably). Has there been a staff cut or something?

This happened yesterday too -- the last post was around 8:16 AM, and then there were no new posts posted until well into the afternoon. It is now 3:02 PM, and I find it hard to believe there have been no new comments since 8:04 AM.

What's up with that? It really makes it hard to carry on a conversation with other members of the community on issues of interest when you can't see what other people have said in the interim. "

movedsouth wrote on Aug 20, 2008 12:57 PM:

" There's more to the oath than defending the Constitution. If that were the case, Viet Nam would have had very few forces. "I,____________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to the regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God" "

1234567890p wrote on Aug 20, 2008 12:47 PM:

" you say my statement has been receivev and will be available once it's been approved. who approves it? "

1234567890p wrote on Aug 20, 2008 12:43 PM:

" When I used to drive,(I've seen too many drivers run red lights) if a light was red, when it turned green, I waited until drivsers stopped befoer I proceded through ihe intersection. I was not going to be hit by a careless driver. Do you agree? "

forrest wrote on Aug 20, 2008 12:35 PM:

" Farmers Gal, I agree this is an illegal war and as I said before I donot agree with it nor do I support it and I served a over 26 years in the regular Navy and Army Reserve, My point is there is no draft, so anybody joining the military is doing so at their own free will. The oath they take says they will defend the constitution of the United States and obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me. The point is that you know what your getting into before hand and if you want the pay check and benefits of that employment, it means you go to war. I wouldn't want my oldest grandson to join either, but it will be his own choice, and if he does, he will probably end up in this stupid war. Have a good day. "

luvRetirement wrote on Aug 20, 2008 12:17 PM:

" "I should look to see whatever became of him."

You probably should start your search with the inmates at Leavenworth, Kansas..... "

chris van note wrote on Aug 20, 2008 11:25 AM:

" Farmer's Gal wrote on Aug 20, 2008 8:04 AM:

"There is that one fella in the service who refused to fight on exactly those grounds -- that this war violates the oath he took when he joined the service. It took a lot of courage for him to stand up for what's right that way -- I should look to see whatever became of him. "

Hopefully he's serving time in a military or federal prison for dereliction of duty.

The war being somehow "illegal" is only an opinion, which FG, isn't fact. That is a very big distinction.
If you don't want to fight, don't join the service. Pretty easy concept to understand don't you think? "

cm wrote on Aug 20, 2008 10:48 AM:

" Karl: it is NOT the law in all states for Gays to legally marry. Since its NOT the Federal Law, as is 'Under God'..I'll be awaiting your corrected Pledge.

The only way your friends are making 80grand in the military is if they have gone to Officers School first and NOT started at the bottom and worked their way up. maybe they choose to be a pilot, as I have a friend who is one of the Blue Angels.
Lower ranks May WANT to learn a specific trade (electrical) and enjoy hands on work over paper-pusher, as my hubby did, which less monies are paid.
people join for a variety of reasons, but EQUALLY know there could be a war and that is their primary job!

many call this war illegal, but the truth of the matter is: we are NOT in the position to know-all info.
Just as the media thrives on the bad ('x' amount of killings today) RARELY do they mention the good ('x' amount saved today, 'x' amount of power restored, 'x' amount of safe drinking water restored)

Fools would believe that Osama is NOT behind the backings of 'In the name of Allah' bombings in ALL mid-east countries!

as for Tillman: I wouldn't believe words unless I heard them personally!
how do we know he wasn't speaking out for the little guys in the military, that needed better gear, or had extended tour dates, or pay issues, or orders/ideas mandated- that the little man thinks should be changed?
(as in most job issues)
Too many versions in HEARSAY-like Judge Judy 'rule it out'.

BREW: national guard --think they are 'in training' and have 'monthly drills' to do what? great race team? Olympic gold? sit around the fire and tell ghost stories? learn an Indian rain dance? DAH!!! "

karl wrote on Aug 20, 2008 10:27 AM:

" Kieth Olberman dug up a clip of John McCain saying that he decided to run for President because it has become his ambition to be president, and that he figured that if he didn't run now, this was his "last shot".
This proves one thing--that McCain is desperately ambitious to win the White House, and as such, will sink to any level necessary to win it, whether that means dishonoring himself or the country. This explains his flip-flopping and his complete lack of ethics in running a dishonest, shameful campaign where his adviser is a paid lobbyist for a country whom has provoked a war on the false assurances that McCain would somehow connive some military support for them. This is both reckless and treasonous! "

cm wrote on Aug 20, 2008 9:46 AM:

" Karl: it is NOT the law in all states for Gays to legally marry. Since its NOT the Federal Law, as is 'Under God'..I'll be awaiting your corrected Pledge.

The only way your friends are making 80grand in the military is if they have gone to Officers School first and NOT started at the bottom and worked their way up. maybe they choose to be a pilot, as I have a friend who is one of the Blue Angels.
Lower ranks May WANT to learn a specific trade (electrical) and enjoy hands on work over paper-pusher, as my hubby did, which less monies are paid.
people join for a variety of reasons, but EQUALLY know there could be a war and that is their primary job!

many call this war illegal, but the truth of the matter is: we are NOT in the position to know-all info.
Just as the media thrives on the bad ('x' amount of killings today) RARELY do they mention the good ('x' amount saved today, 'x' amount of power restored, 'x' amount of safe drinking water restored)

Fools would believe that Osama is NOT behind the backings of 'In the name of Allah' bombings in ALL mid-east countries!

as for Tillman: I wouldn't believe words unless I heard them personally!
how do we know he wasn't speaking out for the little guys in the military, that needed better gear, or had extended tour dates, or pay issues, or orders/ideas mandated- that the little man thinks should be changed?
(as in most job issues)
Too many versions in HEARSAY-like Judge Judy 'rule it out'.

BREW: national guard --think they are 'in training' and have 'monthly drills' to do what? great race team? Olympic gold? sit around the fire and tell ghost stories? learn an Indian rain dance? DAH!!! "

Farmer's Gal wrote on Aug 20, 2008 8:04 AM:

" AJ wrote:

"When someone signs up for the military, that does not, and should not, obligate them to fight illegal and immoral wars. Period."

I was just talking with a colleague yesterday about his time in the service -- he signed up right out of high school because he didn't know what he wanted to do with his life. He reminded me that when you join the military, you swear and oath to defend the Constitution -- not the interests of individual administrations, and certainly it would be against that oath to fight in an illegal war. There is that one fella in the service who refused to fight on exactly those grounds -- that this war violates the oath he took when he joined the service. It took a lot of courage for him to stand up for what's right that way -- I should look to see whatever became of him. "

Farmer's Gal wrote on Aug 20, 2008 7:48 AM:

" Cities have constant traffic -- it's only one reason I'd hate to have to live in one. The countryside is an entirely different matter.

Anywhere there is a higher concentration of people, there will be more pollution, because each person generates it. Some is obvious -- like sewage waste or trash, but people also generate noise pollution, and not just directly. Where there are more people, more goods are needed, and often, more goods are produced. Materials need to be carried to and from these sites, and waste is trucked away. All these things create noise pollution, as well as air pollution, oil/grease on the ground, and traffic/crowding. So, more people draw more polluting activities to them.

Population density in the countryside is considerably less, so there is not the excuse for traffic and noise pollution like there is in a more populated area. And without traffic lights and lower speed limits making it necessary for trucks to stop often and keep their speed down, they are often speeding dangerously in the countryside.

Those are just a couple reasons why you hear more complaints about them in the Skaneateles, Aurora and Owasco than in town.

Cities produce more waste, let cities deal more with their own waste, esp. when you are talking about NYC shipping its waste upstate, which is a large portion of the trash being hauled through tiny communities which neither created it nor are profiting for it in any way.

On the contrary -- these communities are burdened with non-local heavy traffic putting more wear and tear on their roads than they have funds to repair continuously, more noise pollution, more air pollution, more risk of spillage if there's an accident, more danger of accidents from speeding trucks, etc.

So, the small communities are taking a beating from trucks which are bringing them nothing of gain, nor taking away any of their trash. Let those trucks stay on the Thruway and other central arteries which were intended for that kind of traffic until they get to their destinations. "

doodles13021 wrote on Aug 20, 2008 6:30 AM:

" The intersection of Clark and Division is horrilble! It's a 3-way stop. Cars traveling North on Division (from Columbus) have the right away. However, there have been numerous times when I almost got clipped there because of drivers not yielding. Thank goodness Fire station 3 is right there. "

cm wrote on Aug 20, 2008 6:10 AM:

" Brew: that may have been an easier ideal to do 'back in the day' because I am guessing he didnt have '535' to answer to/veto for/veto against!

less people=less friction=easier problem solving.

hmmm. I wonder did ABE have an alternate side HORSE PARKING law? "

AJ wrote on Aug 20, 2008 1:54 AM:

" There is so much ignorance and twisted logic by the neocon sycophants here it is unbearable! It's too bad you can't fix stupid.

FG, I tend to believe the worst case scenario about Tillman. Like you, nothing would surprise me. It seems Pat Tillman's brother was well aware of his intentions on going public and speaking out against the war..

Socialist Obama? That is the most amazing and ridiculous thing I've heard all day. To believe that one would have to be to the right of Attila the Hun, ignorant beyond imagination, dumb as a box of rocks, or any combination of the three.

When someone signs up for the military, that does not, and should not, obligate them to fight illegal and immoral wars. Period. "

brew1234 wrote on Aug 19, 2008 11:20 PM:

" The man who had the right idea about political views was a republican named Abe Lincoln. Half of his administration was comprised of the people from the party he defeated. He wanted to hear both sides of the story and make a decision after hearing both sides. He did not want to be surrounded by people who agreed with his views. "

REGISTRATION IS FREE.
Registered users sign in here:
*Member ID:
*Password:
Remember login?
(requires cookies)
 
Unregistered users can register here:

Do not use usernames or passwords from your financial accounts!

Note: Fields marked with an asterisk (*) are required!

*Create a Member ID:
*Choose a password:
*Re-enter password:
*E-mail Address:
*Year of Birth:
 

(children under 13 cannot register)

First Name:
Last Name:
Company:
Home Phone:
Business Phone:
Address:
City:
State:
Zip Code:
 
E-Citizen
E-Edition
Wheels Etc.
Find a vehicle
Hot Jobs
Find a Job
Homes Etc.
Find a Home
TV Week
Find a program
Search Classifieds
Find, Buy
Place a Classified Ad
Sell
Skaneateles Journal
The Journal
New! Best Bridal
Here comes the bride. . .
New! Election HQ
Here come the politicos
Liven Up the Holidays
Fa-la-la-la-la-la-la-laaaaaa
Logo HereNew! Off the Menu
Good Eatin'!
Newspaper Ads
See it again
CNY Boats Etc.
Achors aweigh!
Sections
Special Sections

Top Jobs

The Citizen Copyright ©2009
A division of Lee Publications, Inc.
25 Dill Street
Auburn, NY 13021

Contact Us

Add to My Yahoo!