" The man who had the right idea about political views was a republican named Abe Lincoln. Half of his administration was comprised of the people from the party he defeated. He wanted to hear both sides of the story and make a decision after hearing both sides. He did not want to be surrounded by people who agreed with his views. "

" There is so much ignorance and twisted logic by the neocon sycophants here it is unbearable! It's too bad you can't fix stupid.

FG, I tend to believe the worst case scenario about Tillman. Like you, nothing would surprise me. It seems Pat Tillman's brother was well aware of his intentions on going public and speaking out against the war..

Socialist Obama? That is the most amazing and ridiculous thing I've heard all day. To believe that one would have to be to the right of Attila the Hun, ignorant beyond imagination, dumb as a box of rocks, or any combination of the three.

When someone signs up for the military, that does not, and should not, obligate them to fight illegal and immoral wars. Period. "

" Use whatever interpretive "logic" you choose to, Chris--you still haven't answered the question.
YOUR beloved Neocons are a bunch of experience-challenged Chickenhawks who have no right, and no standing to order America's soldiers to fight their personal military crusades for them.
By contrast, the ones you would consider "cowards" are the REAL "Heroes".
D'OH! Mugged by reality once again! "

" Agreed, Forrest.

Good luck, Nature -- hope your dogs are not in danger from loose one. "

" Interesting situation occured on the nitely dog walk at Hoopes. For a second time a roadie lets his over zealous dog run lose. Three of us with leashed dogs are trying to get away. I am braisen and say there is a leash law, plz restrain your dog. And who ends their conversation with said roadies looking at us like we are nuts? Palesh. He is a piece of work. "

" I hope you think I come closer to the first approach to political discourse than the second, cm -- you and I do not always agree, but we remain civil, and have been known on occasion to help each other out (many thanks for the tips on accustoming kitties to a new home).

But I can't disagree -- all too often people on all sides of the issues slip into the behavior you describe in the second approach. "

" Brew, It really dosen't matter what reason a man or woman joins the military service, the bottom line is they are paid by the goverment to do a job. No I also donot agree about this war today, or past vietnam war, but when you join the service you put yourself at risk of being sent to fight. If a person doesn't want to fight, then don't join the military and take their money. "

" Procedure of effective political discourse:

1. State objectives and beliefs.
2. Read objectives and beliefs of others
3. Find common ground.
4. Work together to those ends.


What happens here:
1. Read objectives and beliefs of others.
2. Scan for hints in what other people write that will allow you to classify that person as either on your team or on the other team.
3. Loudly proclaim your beliefs to be the best.
4. Congratulate and praise people who you have determined are on your team.
5. Insult and incite people who you have determined to be on the other team.
6. Ignore those you are unable to classify. "

" This coming Saturday Obama will announce his running mate - that s/b very interesting.... "

" The enemy which attacked 9/11 is most reliably believed to be in Afghanistan -- NOT IRAQ. Not now, not ever. Tillman did not die fighting that enemy. In fact, he died at the hands of his own men -- that is a fact to which even our military admits.

There is nothing to besmirch Tillman's OWN honor, but those he served is an entirely different matter.

Putting your country before yourself does NOT include fighting unconstitutional wars for special interests. "

" So Karl, by that logic all of the Democrats that didn't serve yet voted to go into Iraq are "chickenhawks" as well.

And your Obamessiah, since taking office in January 2005, has voted to approve every war appropriation the Republicans have put forward, totaling over $300 billion. He also voted to reauthorize the Patriot Act in July 2005.

Again with your logic, Obama is also a
"chickenhawk".

Mugged by reality yet again. "

" Chris---how about that very first post I posted which you have conveniently, predictably ignored?
What about the great point.
Here's the FACTS, Chris--your silly opinion of patriots like AJ and I is just that--an OPINION by a Neocon-parroting sycophant.
The post I made from the very astute previous poster is F-A-C-T.
FACT, that so many of your beloved neocons are chickenhawks; playing with their plastic green army men on some table somewhere, sending braver men than they are off to die for their games.
On the other habd--Jimmy Carter, Ted Kennedy and Al Gore among other Liberals WERE BRAVE ENOUGH TO SERVE!!!
Painful, it must be, to have to swallow THAT pill! How hard it must be to see your heroes fall? "

" wow I am so impressed--not only rain or shine but even tropical storm the mail is still delivered!!! "

" I have had many friends and my son has had many that joined the armed forces for the job training or the education or just to get a direction in their life. A couple even joined for the bonuses they were offered. I don't remember any of them saying they joined to preserve our freedom or fight for their country. I am not denying that some do join for that purpose but it is not the majority. Also many that joined the National Guard or the reserves never thought they would end up in a war zone and if they knew that fact they would not have enlisted. You are making the cause a little too glamorous and you have seen too many war movies. In WWII it is a fact that 30% of the troops in the front lines never shot their weapons with the intent to kill the enemy. They just couldn't kill. Since then the military has become very good at producing killers and the rate of soldiers that shoot to kill is closer to 97% today. They do this to survive not for the glory. Try grasping reality not your fantasy. "

" Karl, I wasn't talking about them, I was speaking of you and AJ. Nice try on changing the subject though.

If Obama and his socialist, politically correct buddies are running this show, we can start to expect these kind of headlines in the next few years (a parody I found on the Al Gore (tm) interwebs):

# Rev. Jeremiah Wright receives Nobel Peace Prize for trendsetting work in race relations
# San Francisco city ordinance: Public display of heterosexual affection (by US citizens) punishable by $1000 fine
# Michael Moore sweeps Oscars with his film Bin Laden Mon Amour
# President Michelle Obama paroles all non-white convicts in America; “We must begin healing process,” she declares
# Archbishop of Canterbury presides over first Muslim coronation ceremony
# Secretary of State Pelosi featured on new 9-dollar bill
# Supreme Court approves quotas for mentally handicapped applicants to PhD programs in the humanities
# Army announces new “fair trade” rules of engagement: Enemy must be given equal weapons before fight begins
# Mandatory 5-year prison term in Canada for Global Warming denial
# Hamas nukes Copenhagen; UN condemns Israel
# White House painted brown; West Wing renamed “Wing of all the Peoples”
# First group of infants successfully undergo lung-reduction surgery to reduce carbon dioxide emissions
# Tax credit of $10,000 offered to white males who sign up for voluntary sterilization
# Development of squirrel-driven automobile engine halted by PETA protests
# Last oil well in Texas goes dry; “A great moment for America” says Secretary of Energy
# First gay marriage ceremony between gorillas performed in Amsterdam "

" farmers girl, pat tillman died honorably while serving his country. he did die fighting the enemy. the same enemy that attacked the US on 9/11. all the left leaners on this site think this is a new world and we are all safe and cozy. they dont understand that history repeats itself all the time. the world didnt begin when they were born. they say things like we dont need a strong military and all that garbage. the fact is if we had more troops and equipment we might have been able to do something about russia. liberals dont understand history or reality. The Good Ole USA the only defender of freedom in the world. The bravest men and women who put country before themselves. Then theres Karl and Aj the America hating sellouts who want to watch freedom disappear so the governent can do a better job at running our lives than we can. "

" The silliness of Obama-as he spoke to a veterans group this AM in orlando, slamming the Iraq war but bragging how we will head full force into Pakistan and Afghanistan!

bragging how he will bring jobs to veterans..which he states to every group he gabs with--where are these jobs coming from?

adding not only will military receive schooling but WORLD CLASS SCHOOLING, who is paying for that?
the veterans will get the best housing aid...money?
what about other americans?
are they not making this housing/bank issue almost only available to upper-middle class and the rich?

to sum it up--if you join the military now you'll get a bonus and some schooling help..
however if you wait for Obama to be pres. you can get 'world class' schooling, bonus, full medical for life, and a HOUSE but you need to do your duty and go to war in Pakistan!

and we the tax payers will love funding all of it! "

" FG: sorry, yet funny about the cat!
I think you should begin by moving the litter pan just outside the bedroom door and every day move it farther towards the area you want it be..
this way the cat will gradually adjust to its new home, just as you are..

this idea worked for us with 2 kittens that wouldnt leave the livingroom, in fear of one dog.
it took about 2 weeks, they learned the dog was big baby. They all were best buds after that. "

" The Pledge of Allegiance isn't a law -- it's a pledge. It's you (or me) pledging that I have allegiance to this country in the way I say I do -- it would not make sense for me to pledge in a way that is not true for me.

If you are taking an OATH, then you have to either swear under the conditions given you or not. If you are pledging, of your own accord, it only makes sense to pledge what's in your heart.

This country has religious freedom, which includes freedom from religion when a person so chooses. Therefore, it MUST be permissible to pledge allegiance to this country (and its religious freedoms) without insisting that "God" be brought into it. An American citizen could be an Odinist or a druid or a Hindu or any other polytheistic religion -- or an atheist -- and pledge allegiance to this country -- but it would not be appropriate to include God in the pledge.

You see, the whole country is NOT "under God" -- not from the perfectly legitimate perspective of many of its citizens. You could even be a Christian and feel the country is not running "under God."

I respect the right of those who wish to leave it in for their own personal purposes, but I still do not think it belongs in any official version, and it most definitely does not belong in any pledge which I take. "

" Actually, if I am not mistaken, Pat Tillman, once he got to war, thought the war in IRAQ was wrong and had spoken out against it in a small way and was planning to speak out against it even more when he got home on furlough -- which means he did NOT "love his job." By all accounts, he bought into the war in Afghanistan, but not Iraq.

Some make a case the Powers That Be had the Rangers' "poster boy" assassinated before he publically denounced the war in Iraq -- I don't put anything past our government, though accounts I've heard from other soldiers who were there do sound like the usual stupid chaotic mess resulting in a fatal accident. I could go either way on that one. "

" cm, I fully believe that going into the military is for some people the exact same thing as going to college on Daddy's dime--but they get to get paid an obscene amount for it.
Translation: high school is over; what do I do now--college? Naw, I'm sick of school. But hey, I can go into the military and make BIG money--I just know I'll never have to go to war!
Why are the demographics of the military so filled with the poor and underprivileged?
Cannon fodder. "

" cm writes "Does that mean we follow the original laws or the updated versions?"
OK, cm--I can see your point--I'll tell you what then, fair is fair; I'll say "under God" when you throw your full support behind allowing Gays to legally marry. "

" Karl, your so called two friends who signed up for the money and free schooling are COWARDS, they should have taken a better look at their oath of enlistment into the Military of the United States. "They swear that they will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all ememies foreign and domestic, it also states that they will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over them. They end the oath by saying SO HELP ME GOD. This oath was adopted in 1789 and it has a very special meaning to every man and woman who joined the military. So if your friends want the money and free schooling they better be prepared to earn it, if not leave this country and go to a better one, if they can find one. Karl did you ever server in the military? Did you ever give anything back to this country other than criticism? "

" since 1950 (FG) we were taught 'under God' in the pledge.

Many laws initiated long before we were born:
Animals, Civil Rights, Criminal Procedure, Debtor & Creditor, Domestic Relations, Education, Elder, Environmental Conservation, Estates & Wills, Indian, Insurance, Marriage, Military, Personal Property, School, Social Services, Tax, Tobacco, Vehicle & Traffic, Workers' Compensation.

All of the above laws
(plus one or two more) have been changed since their original date of initiation.
Does that mean we follow the original laws or the updated versions?

ex. Karl & Aj born in 1970, in 1988 they were 18 and now had to pay TAXES,
initially they paid taxes on the 1988 tax laws.
Have they used the same 1988 tax tables from 1988 - 2007
OR have they used the updated/changed versions EACH YEAR? "

" AJ: it matters not what the family has to say--since they believe their version.

he may have loved his job, and acted differently to family..
ex: like karl sitting quietly while the family prays before dinner on Xmas. "

" Pat Tillman is the perfect example of the immorality of "patriotic" war propaganda and the whole culture of "patriotism."

Here we have a strong, healthy, brave and honorable young man, a fine athlete with a promising career ahead of him, a beautiful new young wife at home, and out of good faith motivation, he leaves career and family behind to go to war, a war he had been misled to believe was for a just and noble cause.

There he dies, not fighting the enemy, not saving the world from terrorists, (as if that were possible), but in a c*cked-up communications snafu, he's shot to tiny little pieces by his own men, all of whom seem to have admired him greatly -- leaving him dead, his wife a widow, his family distraught, his teammates devasted and his brothers-in-arms (including his own brother) bearing both the loss AND the guilt of knowing they killed him. Accident or no accident, and I'm sure it was, those poor guys will bear the burden of guilt and shame all their lives somewhere deep in their hearts.

Yes, things like that happen in war, and wars are always tragic on some level. But this is the perfect shining example of why it is immoral to raise children to think it is a noble thing to go off to war and even more immoral of governments to lie to the people about the real reasons for war (which they always do -- or most would not choose to go off to war at all).

Signing up has NOTHING to do with "believing in this country" -- NOTHING AT ALL to do with it. That's just a quintessential line of propaganda to be swallowed by the gullible. If you truly believe in this country and that it could potentially once again be a great country, then you should be home working to clean out corruption in government and take care of our own people right here at home, rather than out killing and dying for nothing in an unwinnable war.

Because you can be absolutely sure that Pat Tillman did not die for a noble cause -- the cause that sent him to war was a lie, and his family, friends, brothers-in-arms and teammates lost a fine man for NOTHING.

It's disgusting.

excnyer -- you must have learned the Pledge post-1952. It's your right to say it as you wish, as it is mine to say it in the original form with equal pride. I would not be able to say it with pride with the "under God" part in it -- because I don't believe in that and my pledge would be a lie.

Thanks, nature, I will eventually love my new home -- I do already, really, but there's still that daunting mess of stuff everywhere, a seemingly permanent state of exhaustion, and one of four cats who has now spent 5 days under my bed -- I tried to take her downstairs to use the litter pan last night and she freaked out and peed all over me. Now that was fun. I'll eventually reach the half-full point, and even the cup-runneth-over point, but I'm not quite there yet. ;-) "

" Karl: remenber when you told me I shouldn't judge the whole system because of my sis?
well you shouldnt judge the troops because of TWO friends!

one friend who wants the bucks but NOT do his job duties, he should have been a politician!?

and even if some sign for the big bonuses and schooling, they STILL KNOW they are training for war/possible war!
Joining the US military does not mean you'll hang out at the beach all day playing Volleyball, getting a tan, and enjoying some beers! "

" karl wrote on Aug 18, 2008 9:41 PM:
" movedsouth and cm, for every soldier that signs up "because it's the right thing to do", there's three who sign up for the money and free schooling. I'm sure this from a very reliable unnamed source from an opinion based magazine. "

" If we are justified in invading Iraq to depose a tyrant and make the country better off, then an international force should invade the USA and get rid of our tyrants Bush and Cheney and make this country better off. "

" excnyer,---you wuz taught wrong. "

" movedsouth wrote on Aug 18, 2008 9:05 PM:
" AJ, there are people in Iraq telling us to get out THAT IS BECAUSE THEY ARE A LOT BETTER OFF NOW AND THINK THEY CAN HANDLE IT NOW. They don't want us out because they think we made living conditions worse. And as far as people joining the armed forces, I believe MOST join/re up, because they believe in this country. "

You're obviously have NOT been paying attention.

RE TIllMAN: Interesting you should bring him up. True, many people did join because they thought they were doing the right thing, and Tillman is maybe the most notable example. But you cannot deny, just because of his example, that most people join for economic reasons.

The most interesting thing about the Tillman situation though is that he had come to despise the war and regret his decision. You should pay attention to what the family has to say.

http://whtt.org/index.php?news=2&id=1329 "

" movedsouth and cm, for every soldier that signs up "because it's the right thing to do", there's three who sign up for the money and free schooling.
I have two different friends in the military who signed up for EXACTLY this reason. There was no talk whatsoever of "the right thing to do".
My one friend is 22 years old and making over 80,000+ a year in the Air Force. Yet he doesn't want to go into the field. He doesn't want to go to war.

dd--your post put me to slee....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz "

" I recite the Pledge of Allegiance the way I was taught, in kindergarten, in a public school, "under God". I am proud to recite it that way. "

" AJ, I guess Pat Tillman joined for economic reasons. Give me a break! "

" AJ, there are people in Iraq telling us to get out THAT IS BECAUSE THEY ARE A LOT BETTER OFF NOW AND THINK THEY CAN HANDLE IT NOW. They don't want us out because they think we made living conditions worse. And as far as people joining the armed forces, I believe MOST join/re up, because they believe in this country. "

" movedsouth wrote on Aug 18, 2008 6:22 PM:
" karl, troops DO sign up/reenlist because they believe it's the right thing to do. Don't put your hate for the war to cloud your brain. Saddam was a tyrant and Iraq will be better off without him. BUT, the people fighting believe that Iraq will be better off. "

Yep, that is why the Iraqi people have been telling us to get out for so long, and that they do not believe that we are there for altruistic purposes, as you believe.

And it is true that most people who join the military join for economic reasons because the job market in the US stinks.

You really need to stop getting suckered in by all the lies, especially considering they're as plain as the nose on your face. It amazes me how gullible people can be. "

" as soon as the name-calling starts this forum degenerates into an e-mail brawl. we all need to respect the right to a different opinion without going off the deep end. you do more harm to the possibility of convincing someone to agree with you when you immediately put a person on the defensive. try to share thoughts intelligently without bitter rancor and you very well might see some positive results. "

" dd wrote on Aug 18, 2008 7:42 PM:
" Wow, AJ and Karl--did you see the tv listings next to your latest posts? I sure did, and boy were they more interesting than you posts. "

Sure DD. You can go back to your room now. "

" Wow, AJ and Karl--did you see the tv listings next to your latest posts? I sure did, and boy were they more interesting than you posts. "

" karl, troops DO sign up/reenlist because they believe it's the right thing to do. Don't put your hate for the war to cloud your brain. Saddam was a tyrant and Iraq will be better off without him. BUT, the people fighting believe that Iraq will be better off. "

" As far as Washington ST, they are no different than anyone else! Just think, if they park on both sides all the time, that street is going to get awful narrow. If they can't clear by the wall where all the criminals are behind, where are they to park on even days? Why is it different? "

" Karl: your earlier post oil/troops ---are you for real?

"Jimmy" has jobs should he want to work, many trades are in dire need of employees, especially electrical, plumbing, a/c repair, etc. There are shortages in many skilled fields.
one just has to broaden their horizons!

again: many join the military because of WANTING TO!

you may not think Oil is important because in our daily life, we gripe about prices but forget 'how it all works'
since it's as easy to us as 'flicking a switch' and its ON/pours out of the pump--we will beg for Oil and fight to the death when it is nearly gone,
we desperately need it to function in our lives!

those on 'little house on the prairie' dreamt of such inventions, WE take for granted and are gullible to believe oil will always be available! "

" in thinking about this storm stuff, I think all local hotels,etc. should post emergency shelters with directions for visitors?!!

And newbies to the area should place finding all info as soon as they move in, as a priority!
Most look up the nearest hospital, but in case of an evacuation, they have no clue!
Not all schools are shelters! "

" have you ever realized the eeriness before a storm?
especially with animals?

mine are staying underfoot.
the normal robins that chow the bird feeder are no where in sight. other very 'small but loud' birds are quiet and not seen. Not even a squirrel in site..(have they gone north?) lol.
When I drove past the cows they were huddled together under a tree.

the sun is shining but the clouds are dark and look mean! There is no wind--nothing is moving.
just an eerie feeling! "

" FG - destress and look at the new house as an opportunity of being half full r/t half empty. Lawyers and the judicial process are not gonna change. Cripes, when we sold our 1st house last year we had to drive back home in the middle of vaca to sign papers! We criped for a short period of time, then counted our blessings as they were way more then the inconvenience. Think of all the neat stuff u can do now w/your new home. Go wild!! "

" More curiosities on the Pledge of Allegiance: It was written in 1892, at which time there was a salute which went with it -- towards the flag rather than the over-the-heart thing more common today. Here's what Wikipedia says about it:

"An early version of the salute, adopted in 1892, was known as the Bellamy salute. It also ended with the arm outstretched and the palm upwards, but began with the right hand outstretched, palm facing downward. However, during World War II the outstretched arm became identified with Nazism and Fascism, and the custom was changed: today the Pledge is said from beginning to end with the right hand over the heart." "

" The Pledge of Allegiance was written in the 1800s, but the "under God" part wasn't added until the 1950s, under pressure from the Knights of Columbus. I have always left it out myself. "

" actually FG: I dont think there is a safe place to hide from a hurricane.

Almost no-one has a celler here, same with attics..northern spaces! lol.

I suppose if I had really had to choose it would be my bathroom or laundry room-no windows but they have outside walls.
However I do have a linen closet with shelves-that I kept shelving removeable, just in case, big enough for 3 people.

I dont usually fret to much over hurricanes, for we have days warnings in advance, its more the tornados that spin off of them are the concern.
I stay glued to the Tv, until the power goes out. If anyone has a weather radio, the alarm/siren that goes off will wake the dead! Yet a great investment for tornado warnings!

Just as I thought gas up 2 cents to 3.65
yesterday, I am sure higher today now that the hurricance 'watch' went up last night for our area.

Atleast many are listening to the warnings, the grocery store had no water on shelves at 11 am yesterday-a worker stood in the aisle stating pallets were coming from out back shortly!
I am more inland but the Home Depots & Lowes on the coast were sold out yesterday in 2 hrs of plywood/batteries/flashlights,etc.
more being trucked in from inland locations.

I try to figure out what good is plywood?
If a hurricane does come no amount of plywood will save your home!!
I believe if it's meant to be--its meant to be!


KARL/brew: we have 9,000 Florida National Guard on reserve and 500 active duty as of yesterday!

the daughter is bummed/excited the 1st day of school here will go on today as planned.
I survived the summer, my baby off to 4th grade! "

" excnyer, yes, and "one nation, indivisible" , to answer your questions.
I say the pledge THE WAY IT WAS ORIGINALLY WRITTEN. "

" The posts made by Karl make me wonder if he is an American and if he is, when he recites the Pledge of Allegiance, does he omit "one nation, under God"? "

" Take care, cm -- BTW, where is the safest place in the house when there is a hurricane predicted? I grew up in the last bit of tornado alley and we learned to go into the basement and stay away from windows if there's a tornado. We even had tornado drills (like fire drills) at school -- we went into the central hallway, away from the windows, and huddled along the racks where we hung our coats outside the classrooms. (By the time I was in school, they'd stopped having air raid drills, though they were still listed on the posters in the classrooms).

Anyone without a basement in our area was considered just plain foolish.

But where do you go in a hurricane, assuming it isn't so severe they evacuate the whole region?

Progress is slow, boxes piled in every room, and furniture jumbled in between -- and going back to work tomorrow. Ugh! If lawyers actually cared about their clients (and here I am thinking of the sellers' lawyer, who seems to be the one who held things up), they'd do their part on time and not make a mess of everyone else's lives -- but they don't. So, as I have belly-ached before, I had Thursday-Sunday to move instead of Fri-Sat-Sun-Mon-Tue-Wed-Thu-Fri-Sat-Sun. I would have had time to get everything out of the old place and still many days to spend putting things to rights here.

But I might as well wish the moon to come light in the tree outside my window just for me as wish lawyers (<--Generalization) to care about their clients' convenience! "

" karl wrote on Aug 17, 2008 12:38 PM:
" cm, you need to dump out your full mental box of justifications and excuses-for-war and untangle the spaghetti-mess you've made of them in your brain.
Many of our forces joined of their own volition, of course. But they don't join to go and fight a "Rich Man's War"; they join for the economic bribery which the government promises them for the privilege of using them as cannon fodder. Sending troops to counter a LEGITIMATE THREAT or tyrant is perfectly reasonable and I would support that wholeheartedly, but sending them to bleed and die for Oil in a manufactured, deceitfully-entered and illegal war, and for the sake of profiteering by your war machine buddies is both immoral and illegal."

That just about sums it up PERFECTLY! Also, great song by Earle!! Is he still on AAR? "

" Actually I think it's the idiots who cannot follow the alternate side parking rules that's the problem. It's easy enough for anybody who has any type of education. "

" cm, you need to dump out your full mental box of justifications and excuses-for-war and untangle the spaghetti-mess you've made of them in your brain.
Many of our forces joined of their own volition, of course. But they don't join to go and fight a "Rich Man's War"; they join for the economic bribery which the government promises them for the privilege of using them as cannon fodder. Sending troops to counter a LEGITIMATE THREAT or tyrant is perfectly reasonable and I would support that wholeheartedly, but sending them to bleed and die for Oil in a manufactured, deceitfully-entered and illegal war, and for the sake of profiteering by your war machine buddies is both immoral and illegal.
"
Jimmy joined the army ‘cause he had no place to go
There ain’t nobody hirin’
‘round here since all the jobs went
down to Mexico
Reckoned that he’d learn himself a trade maybe see the world
Move to the city someday and marry a black haired girl
Somebody somewhere had another plan
Now he’s got a rifle in his hand
Rollin’ into Baghdad wonderin’ how he got this far
Just another poor boy off to fight a rich man’s war

Bobby had an eagle and a flag tattooed on his arm
Red white and blue to the bone when he landed in Kandahar
Left behind a pretty young wife and a baby girl
A stack of overdue bills and went off to save the world
Been a year now and he’s still there
Chasin’ ghosts in the thin dry air
Meanwhile back at home the finance company took his car
Just another poor boy off to fight a rich man’s war

When will we ever learn
When will we ever see
We stand up and take our turn
And keep tellin’ ourselves we’re free

Ali was the second son of a second son
Grew up in Gaza throwing bottles and rocks when the tanks would come
Ain’t nothin’ else to do around here just a game children play
Somethin’ ‘bout livin’ in fear all your life makes you hard that way

He answered when he got the call
Wrapped himself in death and praised Allah
A fat man in a new Mercedes drove him to the door
Just another poor boy off to fight a rich man’s war "
"Rich Man's War"--Steve Earle "

" Pretty Good CM. Thanks for asking. "

" Good luck cm, stay safe. "

" "it's beginning to look alot like (not X-mas) ... a hurricane"

ok-the cats out of the bag--I live in the 'lightning capital of the USA'
NO-it wasn't on the welcome brochure!

However, its usually sunny and warm yet having the 'chance' of wind, rain, power-outages, trees, down, and homes wiped out, But its home and I love it here!

Not having a direct hit-in the Tampa area, the news says 40 yrs, I doubt that we will this time,
BUT I am not that stupid to NOT prepare just in case the 'chance' should take a turn to the east at just the right moment.
For the most part, I have almost everything: 2 generators (never used),
weather radio/alarm, battery tv, pets micro-chipped, papers in safe, plywood,
lots of flashlights.
My run today will be for full-tank of gas (before the gouging begins), more batteries (kiddies used for Wii), water and beef-a-roni!

One can never truly predict mother nature, and she has no favorites when it comes to her wrath.

...the 9yr old-about to begin 4th grade is hoping the school will need to a be a shelter--and the 1st day won't be tomorrow!
She's preparing too: charging up the Nintendo DS's and Gameboys! "

" Andy: how did your benefit go?

Karl: I see no point in your useless ranting about sending our sons & daughters to war.. I could understand it IF it was mandatory, but there IS NO DRAFT, these million+ JOINED of their own free will.
They picked their career just as you picked yours.
Many dreamt of being in the military since THEY were kids!

and no different than any other hazardous career, they choose to put their life on the line.

It matters zilch of why they are at war,they ARE doing their JOB.
An honorable one at that! "

" Oh GAAAAWD!
Did anyone see the "Religious Forum" between the candidates hosted by Rick Warren last night?
I steeled my stomach for it and put it on...John McCain was disgusting in his pandering, egg-sucking eagerness to throw out EVERY SINGLE bone he could to the Evangelicals.
"Agents of Intolerance" he once sagaciously called them, yet now of course when he needs their vote, he's predictably flip-flopped like a dying fish. He hit every Faux News talking point like a trained seal.
And how about this silly, ridiculous question--"Does Evil exist?"
Gawd, I nearly fell off the couch laughing!
Of course, McCain went off like Pavlov's dog, seething at foaming at the mouth about how he's going to "follow Osama Bin Laden to the gates of hell! I'm going to get him!"
Sheesh. What a slimy, pandering, dangerously-deluded candidate/ "

" anonymous, my point stung ya, huh?
Hit-and-run anymore pets lately? "

" Anonymoose, one who lives in a glass house should not cast stones. You don't aspire to be the village idiot, you were born to that title. "

" JUST AN OBSERVATION, I think someone was asleep at the wheel! "

" -Gee Karla, I didn't know your childhood dream was to be the village idiot. I guess if you keep your expectations low, you can acheive your dreams more easily! "

" Thanks Cm! Ya the Shriners do some great stuff. Sometimes we arrange for some of our kids to get transported to Shriner hospitals if it is required for one reason or another. Usually the one in Boston. "

" forrest, get a grip.
I can't be a "wannabe"--I've already achieved my childhood dream. Period. Next subject?
Oh, and uh--you wanna talk about "stupid"?
Read the post there, Einstein #2; or do I have to further clarify it to you?
It's a brilliant point about how Chris and his ilk will condemn the "cowardly, unpatriotic Liberals"---WHEN THE FACT IS THAT MORE OF THE ONES THAT THEY TARGET AS BEING THE "WIMPIEST" HAVE ALREADY SERVED THEIR COUNTRY!!!
By contrast--the most fervent warmongers--Cheney, Wolfowitz, Bush, Kristol--as well as their most sycophantic water-carriers--Limpbaugh, Hannity, Buchanan, O'Really(?)--HAVE NEVER SERVED!!!
Perhaps it is because "cowardly Liberals" KNOW the horrors of war, and have perhaps actually seen people and friends die horribly, that they are not so quick as these chickenhawk Neocons who think NOTHING of sending America's sons and daughters to DIE for their twisted dreams? Awful easy to sit there in your nice, white office and launch missiles while you're waiting on the pizza delivery, huh?
In fact Forrest, if you're not bright enough to recognize THAT salient point, then don't hate the messenger for the message! "

" Andy: if I was in NY, I would attend, I am a fan of Shriners too, they are also great group for burn patients! "

" New line up for MGR just arrived in mailbox today and there are 2!! extra shows making 6 and Ed is bringing back by utter popular demand Buddy: The Buddy Holly story. YESSSSSS!!!! What shows and what a line up - Ed is our nat'l treasure! "

" Forrest, why don't you contribute something of substance? Ad hominem attacks don't cut it.

Karl, you're absolutely right about the neocon COWARDS! I would just also like to add George "AWOL" bush to the list.

While we're on the subject of Georgia and Osettia, here is a couple of videos which you may or may not have seen..

http://911blogger.com/node/17171 "

" Karl, concerning your lastest comments to Chris, you put in two words that you are an expert at. The first was wannabes, which you are the biggest wannabe in Auburn and the second was "stupider" because day after day your posting make you look like as dumb as a box of rocks. Its a shame you revert to name calling and insulting when other posters show how stupid you really are. There are some great comments on this site and most of the posters don't rattle on just to see their names on the computer as you do and if other people don't agree with you to bad, if you don't like it take your football and go home. "

" On Saturday August 16th – A Night ofSoul and Rock & Roll – 8pm – Buffalo Wild WingsFeaturing The Soul Traders and The Villagers!

This event is a fundraiser for The Finger Lakes Regional Burn Association you can see them here atwww.flrba.com and IGNITE a professional group of the Cayuga County Chamber of Commerce.

Print flier from here http://www.ignite-cny.org/ and bring it with you to help with the fundraising! "

" Chris, I love it when you shoot yourself i the foot-in-your-mouth
"Liberals tend to be petty and afraid so they have to diminish the military so they don't have to confront their own cowardice. Its simple projection really"--
ok, Chris, then lets consider this--"Politicians who did NOT serve--
Jon Kyl, John Cornyn, Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, Douglas Feith, Karl Rove, Jeb Bush, Dick Cheney, Bill Frist, Dick Armey, Dennis Hastert, Tom Delay, Fred Thompson, Rudy Giuliani, John Boehner

Plus these non-politicians who did not serve: George Will, Bill O’Reilly, Bill Bennett, Pat Buchanan, Rush Limbaugh, Bill Kristol, Sean Hannity, Kenneth Starr, Antonin Scalia, Clarence Thomas, Ralph Reed"
And by contrast--TED KENNEDY AND AL GORE ALSO SERVED! plus....JIMMY CARTER!!!! What BRAVE "Liberals"!!!
So, you wanna talk about "simple projection"?!?!
How about this, Einstein--all these little "Short-Richard'ed" Neocons and Conservative wannabe's who NEVER served feel it's perfectly OK to send men and women to DIE for their "projections", for their glamorized misconceptions of how "kewl" WAR "IS"! All these CONSERVATIVE COWARDS who idea of "strength" and "patriotism" is to be bravely signing the death warrants of the brave men and women who DO enlist--YOU WANNA TALK ABOUT "PROJECTION", chris?
ROve? Cheney? Wolfowitz? The same murderous scumbags who have the blood of thousands on their hands? The same drips that YOU support and give lip service to because you have mistaken their chickenhawk rhetoric for some sort of admirable quality? You really make me sneer!
Ha hA---I guess it takes one to know one--go ahead, I'm listening; make yourself look even stupider! " "