Two Cents

Wednesday, August 6, 2008 10:14 AM EDT

Has there been any notification of alternate side parking other than the articles in the paper? New York City has signs everywhere warning motorists.



The same people who don't follow the leash laws complain when their dogs get hit by a car. More importantly, why don't these professed animal lovers not care enough about their pets to keep them safely secured?

You don't hear anything about Quill unless there's a ribbon to be cut or a ceremony. Lattimore, if you run again, I'll vote for you.

I was a correction officer (prison guard) for better than 31 years, and have been retired for 13 years. Please don't cut them, or the nurses, too, for all the sick people that are taken care of by them!




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The Citizens' Say

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There are 87 comment(s)

movedsouth wrote on Aug 9, 2008 9:34 AM:

" brew1234, you must be the authority on ALL people. Can you not imagine that there COULD be people like that? I'm telling of a project that failed. It was on TV several years ago. BUT, I guess you know better. "

movedsouth wrote on Aug 9, 2008 7:19 AM:

" karl,MOST people have pride and want to work. This program provided housing, clothing, training, transportation, and set up interviews. A lot time and effort was put into it. These people just decided that they didn't feel like going for a job. They interviewed these people, and they said they would be happier back at the projects. The kids would even skip school to go back and see their friends. There is no other way to say it other than that these people were afforded many opportunities and chose to go back. "

brew1234 wrote on Aug 9, 2008 2:47 AM:

" Moved south should move a few thousand more miles south. Some people are disadvantaged because they lack intellect or may have mental problems that make it difficult for them to obtain jobs and function in this world. It is our resposibility to help the needy. If you can't understand this idea then you are probably one of these poor peoples peers. "

karl wrote on Aug 9, 2008 2:38 AM:

" "The American Conservative" newspaper reported yesterday that:
"An extremely reliable and well placed source in the intelligence community has informed me that Ron Suskind’s revelation that the White House ordered the preparation of a forged letter linking Saddam Hussein to al-Qaeda and also to attempts made to obtain yellowcake uranium is correct but that a number of details are wrong.

The Suskind account states that two senior CIA officers Robert Richer and John Maguire supervised the preparation of the document under direct orders coming from Director George Tenet. Not so, says my source. Tenet is for once telling the truth when he states that he would not have undermined himself by preparing such a document while at the same time insisting publicly that there was no connection between Saddam and al-Qaeda. Richer and Maguire have both denied that they were involved with the forgery and it should also be noted that preparation of such a document to mislead the media is illegal and they could have wound up in jail.

My source also notes that Dick Cheney, who was behind the forgery, hated and mistrusted the Agency and would not have used it for such a sensitive assignment. Instead, he went to Doug Feith’s Office of Special Plans and asked them to do the job."
SO THAT PROVES IT--DICK CHENEY (AT VERY LEAST) IS GUILTY OF AN IMPEACHABLE OFFENSE, AND IS GUILTY OF ELECTIVELY STARTING A WAR FOR WHICH HE SHOULD BE TRIED FOR WAR CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY!!!
THIS IS NO LONGER JUST A "LIBERAL" ASSERTION!
THIS IS DOCUMENTED FACT!
F-A-C-T!!!
LET THE WHEELS OF JUSTICE START TO TURN!!! "

cm wrote on Aug 9, 2008 12:31 AM:

" ANGMOM3:
all is great (in my dreams)
...have a great weekend. "

cm wrote on Aug 9, 2008 12:26 AM:

" If you dont know--being a grandparent is great! I babysat mine tonight, and there is nothing better than spoiling them rotten and sending them home!
lol....
I forgot to add I took tons of pictures.
I have atleast 40 photo albums. "

cm wrote on Aug 9, 2008 12:22 AM:

" overall the system needs a total makeover. It should be more difficult for the abusers and easier for the needy, with semi-aid to those trying to get off.

on my non-Catholic list, was/is birth control.
I remember when I found out nasty sis at 14 was 'with' a boy, and I told parents she needed to be on birth control --WOW you'd think I had just killed someone!
This was a HUGE arguement-the 'warden'(step-dad) said my plan was giving her permission. I said shes already doing it-do you think she will stop because you say so?
Well her father signed the papers, he didnt want his baby to have a baby.
he wasn't happy-as most dads arent when it comes to their baby girl, but he understood the reasons for it.

No parent can follow a teen around, a teen will do what they want in strange places. few parents get lucky and have a teen that will wait.
Some parents just plainly ignore the situation until the word 'pregnant' spills out.
If I know for a fact whats done is done,and theres a 50-50 on it will happen again--BIRTH CONTROL--and I happen to prefer the needle one every 3 months --so I can witness it being taken!!

I can still agree with birth control and believe in GOD. I don't let the Pope make my personal decisions. "

karl wrote on Aug 8, 2008 9:42 PM:

" Chris,dd, movedsouth--I AGREE 100%! If you can't support children--MANDATORY BIRTH CONTROL!!!
But you'll never get that by the Christians!
movedsouth, as I have said before, if you believe that people actually PREFER to be on Welfare, then you assume that they are content to live a near-poverty existence in miserable surroundings just for the sole "reward" of being lazy and bored.
Come on. I'm cynical, admittedly, but that's just plain unrealistic to the extreme. People have pride, and want to work. I sincerely believe that. Putting people in better homes isn't giving them a job--besides, who's to say that those people didn't look for jobs, but were turned away because of no experience, arrest records, inadequate schooling, etc? You can't take the chicken out of the henhouse, and put him in a barn and just expect him to give milk! They should have ALSO provided employment opportunities for those folks and THEN judged the program. That "experiment" fails on so many levels it's hard to even know where to start decrying it. "

quiveringthigh wrote on Aug 8, 2008 8:18 PM:

" Here's a really cool groove tune by Chevelle, for anyone that enjoys music. It's called, "The Red". I am learning it on drums. One of my favorite songs, today.

Enjoy and comment, if you'd like!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQuLMRP5qwU "

excnyer wrote on Aug 8, 2008 8:08 PM:

" Farmer's Gal, I agree with you about girls getting an education, job, apartment, etc. That is what I did many years ago. When I left high school, I was able to find a job ($1.25/hr minimum wage), buy a car, have my own apartment, balance my checkbook, without help from my parents. It really irks me that kids graduating from school today don't have the skills necessary to function on their own. I never went to college and felt that I had enough common sense to go out into the world. I have seen and done so much in my lifetime that many of today's kids will never experience. The second phase of my life is great; retirement is so much fun! It's not the destination, it's the journey! "

quiveringthigh wrote on Aug 8, 2008 7:11 PM:

" Been digging the Rainbow Rising cd. Haven't heard it in years. Great drumming! "

quiveringthigh wrote on Aug 8, 2008 6:21 PM:

" I kind of believe that we need to have a percent of people on welfare. Just think how hard it would be to have and keep a job, if everyone that was on welfare had to work to survive. I am sure they would get special privileges and merits towards a job. I think, ya, keep people on welfare, but make them work in the community. They can be doing things like cleaning the litter and helping clean the tagging that is all over buildings and signs. Out in CA, the "weekenders" are out cleaning up the freeways. I'm sure if the welfare community would help keep it nice. I also believe that welfare should be given with stricter privileges. No more luxuries. Cable tv, cell phones, luxury cars, for example. They should earn these things as part of their productivity in the community. I furthermore believe they should be wearing second hand clothes and shopping in food pantries. Yes, it bothers me when on "welfare" day at the supermarket, I see recipients loading their carts with choice cuts of meat, junk food, alcohol and tobacco. I do shop with a budget and try to stretch my dollar as much as I can, so I can get through my week. I am past the Top Ramen stage, but I am not a frivolous spender. I do have bills to pay. I work very hard for the green I make. And doing this, I am able to get by with some extra green do do what I want with. Not a lot though. I have to save up for my luxury things. "

cm wrote on Aug 8, 2008 5:31 PM:

" One thing with Obama that irked me, was he gave the 'ridiculed Bill Cosby' speech to blacks..And only blacks!

When Cosby did it--that man was slammed by his own!

Now why isnt this same speech given to white groups?
does Obama NOT know how many dead-beat white dads there are?
Worse, several of them are working dads??! "

ANGMOM3 wrote on Aug 8, 2008 5:01 PM:

" Hello all. I hope everyone is in good health and in good form. I doubt that the ongoing debate will ever end! That is always a positive measure.

Peace to all.

ANGMOM3 "

nature lover wrote on Aug 8, 2008 4:17 PM:

" We know as many dead beat moms as we do dads...so gender is not an issue for being a skank. "

Farmer's Gal wrote on Aug 8, 2008 3:38 PM:

" A girl growing up in this country is faced with a lose-lose situation with regards to her own natural sexuality and her position vis-a-vis males, but don't even get me started on that one.

But when it comes to supporting yourself, there is nothing more important for a young woman to do. I have seen so many times how dependency (whether on father or husband or someone else) breeds resentment on both sides of the fence -- it's a recipe for a miserable situation all around. Allowing yourself to be dependent on someone else leaves you just too vulnerable.

Get an education, get a job, get your own place -- be prepared to take care of yourself -- and your children. You never know if your husband you are so sure loves you as much as you love him will never leave you. And even if you are right, you never know when he might get hit by a truck, or come down with a debilitating disease. Or, you never know, he might be a wife-beater and YOU decide to leave HIM.

Off my soapbox now. "

movedsouth wrote on Aug 8, 2008 3:31 PM:

" CHOSE "

cm wrote on Aug 8, 2008 3:12 PM:

" One thing with Obama that irked me, was he gave the 'ridiculed Bill Cosby' speech to blacks..And only blacks!

When Cosby did it--that man was slammed by his own!

Now why isnt this same speech given to white groups?
does Obama NOT know how many dead-beat white dads there are?
Worse, several of them are working dads??! "

cm wrote on Aug 8, 2008 3:08 PM:

" DD: totally fair!!

FG: Im not a fan of either choices,I am still waiting for VP announcements.

CVN: funny! Back to girls need to be brought up more responsible--like mine-I said alot of 'dont do what mom did'
I really wished my mom was more stringent, but cant cry over spilt milk now.
I think for those that have girls its best to teach them they DONT need to be a 'couple' to be something/someone. And listen to Suzie Orman when she says a woman should be ready at all times to be financially stable, have your own credit, seperate bank account, and SAVE just in case..
My 'next thirty years' plan...lol "

dd wrote on Aug 8, 2008 2:31 PM:

" For those living on county/state/federal handouts: mandatory random drug testing, birth control, job training, no more money for more kids, a lifetime usage limit. How do those ideas sound? Fair? "

movedsouth wrote on Aug 8, 2008 1:55 PM:

" karl, those people in CA CHOOSE to go back to the projects because they were TOO lazy to get a job. That is a fact. Not all people choose to live in the slums, but some do. "

movedsouth wrote on Aug 8, 2008 1:51 PM:

" karl, people live in slums because they choose to. Maybe I should have said people choose to live in slums because they like welfare and do not want to make the effort to better themselves. I would still like to know where you found a different definition of idiot. Personally attack me again because that IS what you do best. Are you saying that there are NOT people who are satisfied with living in the slums because welfare takes care of them? Go ahead attack me and not answer the question. I think you speak like you are a tree. "

karl wrote on Aug 8, 2008 1:29 PM:

" cm, in saying "Obama is not prepared to be president", you are in effect, saying that Bush was "prepared to be president" when he assumed the wheel and steered us all down the path to ruin 4, even 8 years ago--because you yourself were shilling for HIM in the last election--and look how THAT turned out!???
Therefore, your comment--or I should say THAT comment in general--has absolutely NO MERIT whatsoever. "

chris van note wrote on Aug 8, 2008 1:28 PM:

" Karl, last I checked sex isn't a right-its a responsibility (a fun one, but still a responsibility).

My take is that if you are on welfare, you should be required to have a birth control implant. "

karl wrote on Aug 8, 2008 1:25 PM:

" movedsouth--where did you misinterpret the issue?
"People live in slums because they choose to"
Get it?
"I AM THE LORAX; I SPEAK FOR THE TREES!
I SPEAK FOR THE TREES FOR THE TREES HAVE NO TONGUES!
AND I SPEAK FOR THE POOR CUZ YOUR COMMENT'S SO WRONG!"
LOL! "

Farmer's Gal wrote on Aug 8, 2008 1:14 PM:

" And McCain is nuts, so what's the public to do? (I mean, if you want to bring about WW3 as quickly as possible, go ahead and move the capital of Israel to Jerusalem -- sheesh. McCain would probably follow that up with "humorous" comments about the wives of the many Heads of State who were upset by such a stupid move and not be able to understand why they didn't find it funny). "

cm wrote on Aug 8, 2008 12:39 PM:

" Obama is not prepared to be president. If Chicago/Illinois were free from crime, gang violence, drugs, unemployment and failing infrastructure I would say, job well done, senator. Instead, the area is the poster child for how not to run a government.

Posted: 2008-08-07 15:46:07
CHICAGO (AP) - Governor Rod Blagojevich and Illinois State Police say state troopers will help Chicago officers work on reducing gun-related crime and dismantling gangs.
The Thursday announcement comes as Chicago Police Department statistics show homicides in the city rose 18 percent through July compared with 2007.
The city was showing a 13 percent increase for the year during May and June. But 62 homicides in July increased that uptick to 18 percent.

http://news.aol.com/story/_a/state-police-to-help-chicago-police-stem/n20080807154609990024 "

nature lover wrote on Aug 8, 2008 12:29 PM:

" FYI - a house can be condemned in Auburn for merely being vacant for 6 months - ie: an elderly person goes into a nursing home and dies. Said house isnt necessarily a creepy place, just out of date on some things. That is what we bought twice and had to deal with code enforcement. That dept needs MAJOR overhauling as when we dealt w/them they were very ominous and harrassing. Whereas, slumlords get extentions on current permits every 6 months thus extending their eyesores. What Auburn needs is a type of Westlake association that encompasses the entire town. Low/no interest loans and guidance for fixing these houses in Auburn. Where ever we travel and someone says they have been here, they always remark how many nice old houses there are. We really are in a unique area for history and should take that idea to the hilt. But alas, the powers that be wait till either its too late (tear it down!) or their term is up and their pensions/benes are in the bag...sad really because if we all just applied a little elbow grease...look at that beautiful brick on south st - it was slated for demolition and a couple refurbishes it to enviable quality. I always wish we could organize a roving task force that has rakes and clippers and paint in tow to assist but it w/b short lived. "

movedsouth wrote on Aug 8, 2008 12:22 PM:

" karl, here is a definition of idiot, now clarify. Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This id·i·ot Audio Help /ˈɪdiət/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[id-ee-uht] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun
1. an utterly foolish or senseless person.
2. Psychology. a person of the lowest order in a former classification of mental retardation, having a mental age of less than three years old and an intelligence quotient under 25. I don't know where you get your interpretation of words, but if you can't play nice in the sand box, get out. "

cm wrote on Aug 8, 2008 12:01 PM:

" I dont know about your middle class white woman, but economy says that group is now nearing the poor side.
if they do get more abortions its because they now have common sense in their 30s & 40s...

CVN: I have never understood why being poor doesn't stop one from having kids, however I dont think anyone would have kids if they waited to afford them!


personally I dont regret my 4 kids,they are my life and own my heart,

however I do regret choices I made for being with their dads. I think I want to blame 'my sign' --Libra--for we always try to fix things,
then my gender-- girls at times are dumb, me included, we think with our hearts, we love when we need to stop loving, we think the faults can be mended, we tend to ignore our brain and common sense!

Sometimes we stay in bad relationships for financial reasons, or for the kids, or just plain fear of the unknown.

After 21 yrs next week, I dont plan on marrying again, and especially not to a horse or a girl. "

movedsouth wrote on Aug 8, 2008 11:48 AM:

" karl,if I believe that are you going to try and sell me a bridge? Where did I misunderstand/misinterpret the issue? "

karl wrote on Aug 8, 2008 11:18 AM:

" By the way, Chris--is that "Gore" thing from that same ridiculous radical, Fundamentalist website that you frequent? "

karl wrote on Aug 8, 2008 11:08 AM:

" moveeddsouth, I wasn't attacking you personally or insulting you! Just clarifying your level of understanding/interpretation of the issues!
Please, feel free to respond in kind! "

karl wrote on Aug 8, 2008 11:07 AM:

" Chris,....sigh...such "understanding" and "insight" into the human condition can not go unchallenged.
Birth control fails sometimes. When you're worried about putting food on the table, condoms are not the first thing on a boy's mind--and we know what IS.
And guess what, Chris? You know what demographic group has the HIGHEST number of elective abortions? MIDDLE CLASS WHITE WOMEN! Which only goes to prove that the ones you might least expect to be "lax" on their reproduction options are JUST AS IRRESPONSIBLE--only they can AFFORD to "do something about it"! Or they have a safety net in place--parents usually--to help raise the kid.
Dropping out of school to work is sometimes a necessary evil when you're poor.
When you don't have a jib, and there's none to be found, what do you do if not sit at home? When gas is more than your welfare check, how do you go look for a job?
Chris, you make some good points and many that I agree with, honestly. I agree with you more than you know.
But your habit of self-righteously condemning every poor person with the widest brush possible, allowing no room for sympathy or insightful understanding wears thin real fast.
I'm not even gonna touch that ridiculous cut-n-paste on Al Gore--GOBAMA! GOBAMA! "

movedsouth wrote on Aug 8, 2008 10:50 AM:

" karl, I thought that you were signing off because the great karl SHOULD understand what is written below post comment! No comment may contain: Personal attacks, insults, or threats. I guess it just shows what type person you are. "

cm wrote on Aug 8, 2008 10:45 AM:

" I agree NATURE:
it used to be people were proud to own a home--some still are,
but in Auburn, its turned into rental city. This began 20 yrs ago, almost everyone in APD owned several rental homes,you think the APD owners would know better, but the facts are they saw this 'homesite program' going full circle, so they jump the bandwagon, bought and rented!
This was easy money-turn 1 family dwellings into 2 or 3 apartments-without proper codes..being they were APD --was CODE enforcement going to do their job???
NO way!!
most of these rentals also run on One electric/water bill split by tenants.
another unfair practice!

this is public record, see who owns the homes, see dwelling info changed, and very few infractions upheld by CODE officers.

Auburn code officers need to be fired! maybe hire SENNETT's nasty guy!!! "

karl wrote on Aug 8, 2008 10:24 AM:

" movedsouth, I'm sorry I was unclear--I didn't sign off at the end of my post, I called you an idiot. Kapeesh? Greaaaate! "

nature lover wrote on Aug 8, 2008 9:59 AM:

" A proud poor person can push a broom to clean only so much. When there isnt even enough money to feed the family, a can of paint cant be considered. For those that are forced to rent, many of these landlords exploite their own tenants by being quick to judge their situation as unsavory. So r/t providing a building that is at least partially up to code, they prefer to collect checks then let the property go for back taxes. Its a vicious cycle in town here because up until recently a house c/b purchased cheap enough to be considered disposable. If the owners showed respect for their tenants/community and visa versa, the housing stock in Auburn would improve. Many derelict houses have been repaired, just look at the upper portion of Washington ie: a gothic vic was completely redone just for the luv of the architecture. Now granted there will ALL ways be bad on both sides - but judging a book by its cover and just treating your fellow man like a dog is wrong on all levels. We need to again revamp the code enforcement dept to be better manned and allow to crack down on repeat offenders and NOT harrass legitimate owners trying to fix a property. They are butt backwards. "

chris van note wrote on Aug 8, 2008 9:22 AM:

" From the Al Gore(tm) interwebs:

I'm voting Democrat because I believe the government will do a better job of spending the money I earn than I would.

I'm voting Democrat because freedom of speech is fine as long as nobody is offended by it.

I'm voting Democrat because when we pull out of Iraq I trust that the bad guys will stop what they're doing because they now think we're good people.

I'm voting Democrat because I believe that people who can't tell us if it will rain on Friday CAN tell us that the polar ice caps will melt away in ten years if I don't start driving a Prius.

I'm voting Democrat because I'm not concerned about the slaughter of millions of babies so long as we keep all death row inmates alive.

I'm voting Democrat because I believe that businesses should not be allowed to make profits for themselves. They need to break even and give the rest away to the government for redistribution as THEY see fit.

I'm voting Democrat because I believe three or four pointy headed elitist liberals need to rewrite the Constitution every few days to suit some fringe kooks who would NEVER get their agendas past the voters.

I'm voting Democrat because I believe that when the terrorists don't have to hide from us over there, when they come over here I don't want to have any guns in the house to fight them off with.

I'm voting Democrat because I love the fact that I can now marry whatever I want. I've decided to marry my horse.

I'm voting Democrat because I believe oil companies' profits of 4% on a gallon of gas are obscene but the government taxing the same gallon of gas at 15% isn't. "

cm wrote on Aug 8, 2008 9:15 AM:

" FG: very true on your last post!

KARL: I dont judge all by my ONE sis.
facts are I have 6 sisters.
a. 2 are system abusers
b. 2 semi-system needy
c. 1 has to have medicade for serious heart disease.(only program she uses).
d. 1 should have medicade for heart disease but pays insurance and mostly cant afford heart meds.
e. ME

sister C and I have been the work-your butt off people.
the system was needed one or twice but just as temporary situation. I cant fault her for medicade needed now,
by-passes are costly.

the 2 B. sisters --do work but cannot better themselves because they would be cut of essential food stamps,homesite, medical coverage needed for kids. Both have dead-beat fathers.
in this case the system hinders them from going forward-because they cannot afford rent even with a job making 10.00 an hour. after taxes and health insurance that would be about 325.00 a week, the 1st 2 paychecks would be for rent alone. Co=pays on insurance would bury them if medical was needed.

NOW sisters A. are the best abusers!
as I have said one is nasty-drugs has fried her brain there is no hope, she just turned 40. 2 of her 3 kids are in jail right now/drugs also..
the next one works at times, has a disabled child due to drugs habits, and also dead-beat dads. She however,is the refurbisher,and lives above her means.

THESES TWO have loads of friends(druggies)--ALL these friends are system abusers!
then they know the families/friends of the friends--ALL ABUSERS--to render a guess that would be about 4,000 of Auburn's population, THAT I KNOW OF.

So my judgement is not based on ONE-
its actually based on almost every druggie in the city! "

movedsouth wrote on Aug 8, 2008 9:14 AM:

" karl, I meant to say at the end of post! "

movedsouth wrote on Aug 8, 2008 9:01 AM:

" karl there is a difference between living conditions and health. Years ago there was a pilot program in CA that took people out of the projects and put them in a better apartment. All the mother, single parent, had to do is look for and get a job in 6 mos. The kids spent their free time back at the projects and the parent didn't even look for a job. Project failed. They ended up back at the projects. People do choose to live in slums. PS you don't have to sign off after your post! "

chris van note wrote on Aug 8, 2008 8:21 AM:

" karl wrote on Aug 8, 2008 12:17 AM:

" cm, don't judge all people for the sins of one.Come on, you need to expand your view a bit, dontcha think?
And another typically moronic statement from movedsouth, I see?
Yeah--people CHOOSE to live in slums. Like they "choose" cancer or MS, right movedsouth?
Idiot. "

So Karl, people don't choose to get pregnant with kids they can't afford, they must be immaculate conceptions.

People don't choose to either further their education or not, its the "Man" holding them down.

People don't choose to work or not, society makes them stay home and drink 40s and collect checks.

Wow Karl, you've really opened my eyes.
Its not thier fault for their sorry state of affairs they live in, its everybody elses!

Welfare was supposed to be a temporary helping hand, not a lifestyle. "

Farmer's Gal wrote on Aug 8, 2008 6:55 AM:

" I think the reality about poverty and living conditions is somewhere between Karl's and Chris' views -- lack of opportunity and the system contribute, but so does personal responsibility. It's a slightly different mix for each person who finds him-/herself in such a situation.

You do find people living in poverty who have pride and try to do what they can to make their homes clean and neat, though it can be a losing battle in some neighborhoods, and they may very well not have the wherewithal to move.

You also find people at the other end of the spectrum who have been scumbags and losers all their lives, like cm's sister or the drug dealers on Chris' street.

There is a measure of circumstance in every life, just as there is also a healthy dose of personal responsibility. We all have a certain amount of ability to determine where we go in life, but we all can be subject to the unhappy whims of circumstances and environment as well.

When you look at things in such a polarized fashion -- one side saying: It's all the system's fault, these would all be decent people if they weren't disadvantaged and treated wrong, and the other side saying: it's all their own faults, they should get a job, move and make something of themselves and if they don't it is entirely their own faults -- that's when you get nowhere. Neither of those positions is entirely true, while there is a touch of truth in each.

I think of life like steering a boat in a river -- you have the ability to have some effect on where you go, but in some spots, the current is stronger than you are; it's always a back-n-forth as to which influence determines where the boat will go. Usually, both factor in, and the result is not always predictable, nor can the blame if the boat goes astray be clearly laid entirely on one (personal responsibility) or the other (circumstances, environment, outside influences). "

Farmer's Gal wrote on Aug 8, 2008 6:44 AM:

" P -- you're a little unclear as to the WHEN of your statements. If I am interpreting correctly, it sounds like back when you were a guard (13+ years ago) prisoners were given $40 and a bus pass, which is pretty much the way most of us would like to see it.

But you also assert that Auburn isn't the hub, Mohawk (or some other place) is. If there IS a hub, then that means they don't still give out $40 and a bus pass to send them back whence they came.

So, I am trying to extrapolate what the current situation is, based on what you've said, and that's assuming you have kept up through buddies and former co-workers over the past 13 years. From what you say, there is a (stupid) hub program, but Auburn isn't where they are released. Do I have that right?

Like I said, I only remember the stink at the time it was proposed and what I heard around town with regards to Auburn being chosen as the hub site. If that's not true, that's great, but if you could affirm that I have understood you correctly, that would also be reassuring.

Thanks! "

karl wrote on Aug 8, 2008 12:17 AM:

" cm, don't judge all people for the sins of one.Come on, you need to expand your view a bit, dontcha think?
And another typically moronic statement from movedsouth, I see?
Yeah--people CHOOSE to live in slums. Like they "choose" cancer or MS, right movedsouth?
Idiot. "

forrest wrote on Aug 7, 2008 10:10 PM:

" The State should have the same type of ordence that some towns,villages and cities have concerning dog poop. When your walking your dog and he or she poops on a persons property, you have to stop and put the poop in a plastic bag and take it home and throw in in the garbage. When a person is released from Auburn Prison, the police force, weather it be Sheriff, state, or locol should pick up the exprisoner and bag him and send him back to where he came from in the back of a garbage truck, with all the other doggie poop. "

forrest wrote on Aug 7, 2008 9:48 PM:

" PRIDE, PRIDE, PRIDE. In who you are, what you are, what you stand for. If you don't have pride in yourself, you'll probably end up just like movedsouth said. I don't care if your black,white, yellow or what ever color you are, if you don't have PRIDE in yourself you'll end up with nothing and nobody to blame but yourself. "

movedsouth wrote on Aug 7, 2008 6:51 PM:

" People live in slums because they choose to. If they had any interest the places wouldn't look like they do. They are lazy, sloppy, and are just waiting for their next welfare check. You can be poor, yet keep a clean place! "

cm wrote on Aug 7, 2008 6:32 PM:

" I dont know karl, I think I have to agree with CVN..

ya know some of my nasty sis, who had decent parents, heck she was a daddys girl who gave and gave.
even with his 200grand she got at his death--"went up her nose"

within 6 months after his death, the house he put up half for --was foreclosed, car he co-signed and made payments on, repoed---her kids
dis-owned her as well as her family. And she was totally BROKE!

everything was gone! most of all her personal bank(daddy). the few small things she had left went into storage --which my sister paid on for her for over a year,then it was sold to auction.

many have tried to help her,at one time or another.
Its been 6 years--she hasnt changed-she gets a guy when he has money-snorts him dry and moves onto the next.

The system is her life, she uses the cash for drugs, she sells food stamps for drugs. They got her a job-it lasted 1 month and she 'fell'-probably high..so now work comp for drugs. prescriptions for 'her pain' gets traded for drugs..

she is why I constantly say
DRUG TESTING, needs to be mandatory for state help! "

karl wrote on Aug 7, 2008 4:29 PM:

" That's smart, Chris--I would do the same as far as renting out MY property.
And I can understand you rpoint about some of the ne'er-do-wells down there and at other lactations.
I guess where we differ is this--YOU see it as a "result of the welfare state". In doing so, you assume that individuals are content to live a near-poverty existence in slovenly surroundings, all for the benefit of making a quick, measly-but-easy buck off the government. Can you really fool yourself into thinking that that "Trade off" is worth it to ANY individual?
On the other hand, I believe that these people are where they are in a large part because of a lack of economic opportunity which puts them in poverty. Lets face it--the inner cities aren't exactly brimming with opportunities to elevate yourself out of poverty. And significantly, those that DO accomplish that these days more often than not do it by selling drugs to "move up" in the world. Which usually leads to a criminal record, which further diminishes employment opportunities. It's a sad and vicious cycle. In my opinion, just writing these people off with callous, self-righteous comments doesn't inform or enrich the discussion, or lead to any solution at all.
Can anyone in their place, with the lack of role models and knowledge of what constitutes "proper behavior" say that they wouldn't do the same?
I hate to say it but "There but for the grace of God..."! "

chris van note wrote on Aug 7, 2008 3:20 PM:

" If pointing out the obvious is callous than so be it. Hanging out all day drinking and dealing drugs (which I have seen personally since I used to live down the Alco end of the street) is whose fault? I went to high school with some of them and they are still doing the same thing-having kids they can't afford, getting arrested and generally just being a drain on society as a whole. Not contributing anything worthwhile. This is the effect of a welfare state. Make people reliant on the government and not themselves... Its always somebody elses fault (victim mentality), there is no personal responsibility.
Granted, there are a bunch of slumlords in Auburn and everyone needs a decent place to live. I can tell you from personal experience that many, many times landlords have fixed up buildings only to have them ruined by people with no respect for themselves or others (again, the welfare mentality). If they get kicked out for trashing the place, so what, the welfare department will find them another place to live. No ramifications for bad behaviour, you'd be hard pressed to sue a welfare recipient for damages.
I am a landlord Karl, not in Auburn though, and I check references before anyone moves in. My rule of thumb is no job, no references = no apartment. "

cm wrote on Aug 7, 2008 2:26 PM:

" like I said earlier--LANDLORDS--they make a world of difference!
you would think CODE ENforcement would go door to door and say clean up or be fined!
If its thru homesite--hold the rent.
Start making home-owners accountable.

I have a sister there, I WOULD want to move in behind her. She can take a run-down shack and turn it into a castle.

She is on homesite--they pay her a check to live in a house--seriously!
If her rent is 600 and they allow her 700--they mail her a 100 check--which she uses mostly to renovate.
If the place looks dumpy outside, trust me the inside is outstanding..she has a knack for refurbishing!

some landlords like that someone is fixing up the inside,too bad they can't do something for the outside of these places. "

p wrote on Aug 7, 2008 2:03 PM:

" ok folks, I'm going to tell you one time, Auburn is not the "Hub", that is someplace in the middle of the State, I think it maybe is Mohawk. I've been retired forb 13 years. I recall when a prisoner was relased, he was given $40.& a Bus ticket, which he was not allowed to cash in. He had to go back where he came from. He couldn't stay here in Auburn. "

karl wrote on Aug 7, 2008 2:00 PM:

" In my travels around the rural communities of New York State and northern Pennsylvania to race my dirt bike, I pass through a LOT of small, backwoods rural towns, and Auburn's problems are not unique. There is blight and poverty happening EVERYWHERE--towns being boarded up, shops and houses sitting derelict and abandoned, buildings falling into ruin--it's a nationwide problem. Strip malls have sucked the businesses out of communities, and blight follows.
When businesses go, the tax base goes.
No more money in the coffers means less redevelopment and reinvestment because of that blight. People with money flee to the suburbs, and low-income people move into the now undesirable properties and aging buildings.
This is a nationwide epidemic--and not one for which there are any easy answers.
One thing I know--if it wasn't for the money wasted in this damned war, there would be a LOT MORE government dollars to help with local governments getting grants to spiff up these towns and foster investment. If it wasn't for the economic policies which have sent all the jobs out of the country, there would be businesses to come in and help change the faces of these towns.
It's happening EVERYWHERE. "

karl wrote on Aug 7, 2008 1:50 PM:

" Me and my girlfriend go down Orchard Street quite often to get Dom's Italian Ice, and we sit there and hang out on our bikes and eat it for the 15 minutes or do that it takes.
We've noticed that the street isn't in great shape, but that could describe many areas of the city, or Syracuse to be fair.
Last time we were there, two of the little kids, like maybe 8-9 years old, came over to look at our bikes and we asked them if they wanted to sit on them, and of course they did, twisting the throttles and make "Vrooom" noises. These were African American kids--cute as a button. Their mom came off one of the porches to talk to us about them, and tell her kids not to ruin anything, and thank us for letting the kids sit on them. I found them to be wonderfully nice people.
The thing is, nobody WANTS to "live like animals", Chris, but sometimes the financial condition that one is in precludes them from bettering their environment. Maybe they live there in the run-down apartments that the landlords have neglected because that's th only place they can afford? Your comment is shockingly callous, Chris--well, for a compassionate person it would be; maybe not for YOU.
The latest employment figures showed that 31% of people who lost their jobs were 4 YEAR COLLEGE GRADUATES (!!!), so
what do you think the chances are for those who haven't possible finished school or don't have college training?
Get off your high horse--if you look at people "like animals" they'll return the same sentiment back to you--people aren't stupid, Chris, and they can feel your prejudice and disdain.
I'm not blind to the need for people to stay in school and finish, but hate the system and the problem, not individuals whom you know nothing about. "

Farmer's Gal wrote on Aug 7, 2008 12:01 PM:

" I daresay precious few convicts in Auburn Correctional Facility are local. I know there are guards who read Two Cents -- maybe one will chime in with more accurate info. "

quiveringthigh wrote on Aug 7, 2008 11:31 AM:

" FG, 100% right!
Excnyer, In back of Central High? Must have the best view......... of the prison! "

nature lover wrote on Aug 7, 2008 10:37 AM:

" FG u wrote: If our community didn't breed the criminal in the first...

"our"? I wonder how many home grown criminals were actually generated from here as compared to what was shipped in from downstate for incarceration to include their posse'. And if a local were convicted, did they turn that way or were they influenced by said out of towners? Auburn is still a good place, regardless of what many say. We do have many positives to talk about...

thx to QT and FG for telling me there really was a repeal of the law: "send 'em back!!" Sometimes to cut costs makes the gun holder shoot oneself in the foot. "

excnyer wrote on Aug 7, 2008 10:27 AM:

" Auburn used to be a good place to bring up your family. Prisoners used to be given a bus ticket back to where they came from. Now, since their families have set up house-keeping in Auburn, the released prisoners just settle in. Auburn has a reputation which comes down to "you can commit a crime in Auburn and you won't get caught". Johnny Carson made a statement many years ago where he said you could commit murder in Auburn and not get caught. What Auburn needs is a professional police force and not the Keystone Kops! Check out behind Holy Family Church, in the parking lot, around 6:30 am and you'll find Auburn's finest parked all in a row! "

Farmer's Gal wrote on Aug 7, 2008 10:02 AM:

" Whoops! Typo: If our community didn't breed the criminal in the first place, s/he should NOT be foisted on us after incarceration. "

Farmer's Gal wrote on Aug 7, 2008 8:27 AM:

" Some years ago, I can't recall how many -- maybe 10 or 12? -- I remember a big stink over the State instituting the new "Hub Program" for prisoner release. Instead of having release processing at each prison, they designated only one and ship all their prisoners to that one prison for the last bit of their time in jail, then release them all into the same town. This was supposed to be a cost-saving measure.

Talk about stupid. What it costs us all in increased crime more than off-sets the cost of having release processing at each prison. Now the criminal network can build up more efficiently in one place and be right there and ready when one of their own gets out.

Guess which prison was chosen to be the hub for 8 or 10 others? That's right -- Auburn Correctional Facility.

Personally, I have always believed they should be sent back whence they came. If our community didn't breed the criminal in the first place, s/he should be foisted on us after incarceration. But the prison system doesn't want the expense of sending them back, so Auburn gets all the dregs and worse dumped right here.

If there's a prison guard reading this who wants to correct me on any particulars of this program, please do -- it's been a long time and my memory is fuzzy, or something may have changed since then, but this is my understanding of what went down. "

brew1234 wrote on Aug 7, 2008 2:40 AM:

" I guess NY must be different but you have a city mgr government and he is the head of the city administration and the mayor is just the chairman of the council. So what do you want him to do? His powers are somewhat limited. Do you want him to do a tap dance and whistle Yankee Doodle? "

karl wrote on Aug 7, 2008 12:33 AM:

" dan w, do you have anything worthwhile to say?
EVER? "

cm wrote on Aug 6, 2008 10:29 PM:

" I agree not all laws cans be posted--but alternate parking should be.

I havent checked the web site for Auburn--but it would be a good idea for these items to be posted on there too--some visitors check the web for places to visit,town fairs,etc. "

quiveringthigh wrote on Aug 6, 2008 9:05 PM:

" NL, I remember when something was passed to allow prisoners to have their families live in Auburn. It was early 80's. Things did get worse, crime and Welfare were the results.
They do the same out here in the desert. They just re locate the parolees and the families to get out of the "city". Well all that does is bring the "city" to the desert. Increased crime, gangs and crappy drugs. A lot of Meth labs are built from these "city" people. They live in these cabins in the middle of nowhere and set up shop. It really sucks. The desert is a beautiful place to me. "

nature lover wrote on Aug 6, 2008 8:18 PM:

" Thats an interesting idea, richard102167ny. But they wont close the prison and that w/n/b a solution.
I would like to know if there really was a law/ordinance years perhaps eons ago where the prisoners/their posse', once released, HAD to go back to wence they hailed and if so, when was this repealed? Did this ever exist where prison dung couldnt settle here or is it rumor and they have always had this right to CayCo welfare?

I c/n get two cents from 0802 either. Perhaps it will reload in a few hrs...

I agree w/u Andy b - get that ol coot outta there, cripes he is pathetic! Is he actually voted in or did the nite cleaning crew forget to wake him? a ha ha

cm some streets have posted signs for parking but I will need to c if there is a general sign at city limits like the air brake sign to warn of the alt park. Honestly - like the leash law - not all our ordinances can be posted for the out of towners to be aware of. "

quiveringthigh wrote on Aug 6, 2008 8:16 PM:

" richard102167ny wrote on Aug 6, 2008 7:03 PM:
" AUBURN A PRISON CITY,YES THE PRISON DOES CREATE JOBS ,but as i noticed through the years more and more people were moving here to be closer to their loved ones who are incarcerated behind copper john .this prison has ruined the city ,and the gang activity is directly related to it ,I miss the old auburn ..,RECLAIM THE HOMETOWN ATMOSPHERE ..CLOSE AUBURN CORRECTIONAL FACILITY..

Yeah, Really! They should lock the doors and go home, never coming back. They shouldn't live too long without food and water. Thanks to the prisoner's families, we have a lot of problems. Auburn sure has gotten scummy. Glad I left! "

cm wrote on Aug 6, 2008 7:53 PM:

" sorry Richard: I don't blame the prison for whats moved in..I BLAME the landlords for allowing whats moved in.

Landlords do not do credit/rental/ or background checks--they only care about a HOMESITE CHECK arriving monthly! "

cm wrote on Aug 6, 2008 7:38 PM:

" FG: welcome.
cleaning my carport out before the trash men show up tomorrow. it's too bad I can't get them to just back into my driveway and load the whole area in!

but I have narrowed a fully-loaded camper into 2 bins to keep!
Now thats 'down-sizing' lol. "

richard102167ny wrote on Aug 6, 2008 7:03 PM:

" AUBURN A PRISON CITY,YES THE PRISON DOES CREATE JOBS ,but as i noticed through the years more and more people were moving here to be closer to their loved ones who are incarcerated behind copper john .this prison has ruined the city ,and the gang activity is directly related to it ,I miss the old auburn ..,RECLAIM THE HOMETOWN ATMOSPHERE ..CLOSE AUBURN CORRECTIONAL FACILITY.. "

Farmer's Gal wrote on Aug 6, 2008 6:11 PM:

" Thanks, cm -- people helping people, that's how it should be. Had I but known I'd need to save the link, I could have -- but who would have expected it?

Thanks also nature, I got to read your reply. Glad it wasn't a puppy but a mountain bike, though not glad in general that it happened at all, of course. And the extra drink you needed afterwards is completely understood!

Cheers all! "

movedsouth wrote on Aug 6, 2008 3:37 PM:

" The pet owner is responsible for their pet. If the pet is not under their control, they have to realize that the probably is high that their pet WILL get hit by a car. There are two types of pet owners that don't keep their pets under control, those that have lost pets and those that will loose a pet by being hit by a car. "

Andy b wrote on Aug 6, 2008 3:37 PM:

" And no I'm not related to the Lattimore's (or even know any very well.) I just get disgusted that when you get a guy that sees what needs to be done and sets out to get it done, the business as usual Auburnites keep getting in the way. "

Andy b wrote on Aug 6, 2008 3:34 PM:

" Yes he did have a plan that put the citizens of Auburn first. 30+ years of backward thinking and Ol' sleep during meetings Mcnabb fought him every step of the way. "

cm wrote on Aug 6, 2008 3:20 PM:

" without posted signs I cannot see where they would have a legal stand for out-of-towners.
I agree some streets need to have parking on one side only--but not all streets!

HELLO citizen how many complaints has APD been called on for this issue by nasty neighbors? "

cm wrote on Aug 6, 2008 3:16 PM:

" http://www.auburnpub.com/articles/
2008/08/02/opinion/two_cents.txt
#blogcomments "

yetanotherpinhead wrote on Aug 6, 2008 3:15 PM:

" Maybe they should hire a banner plane to publicize the new year-round alternate side parking. Or maybe pay some of the wandering downtown lunatics $5 to travel across neighborhoods with bullhorns. "

cm wrote on Aug 6, 2008 3:14 PM:

" young lattimore was the town flirt, ask any woman. "

cm wrote on Aug 6, 2008 3:12 PM:

" I just went back to MY HISTORY ( have AOL) and pulled up two cents that way.. "

stevedallas wrote on Aug 6, 2008 3:04 PM:

" Timmy had a plan? LOL! To bad he didnt gain any jobs, just lost some!!!! Team work fellas! lol "

Farmer's Gal wrote on Aug 6, 2008 3:03 PM:

" I care, and so too, perhaps, do others who can't go back and follow the thread of conversation. One recent poster indicated s/he catches up every other week reading all the posts, for example.

If you're not interested, that's fine and your business -- but keep it to yourself if you have nothing better than to make snotty comments about it. "

Andy b wrote on Aug 6, 2008 2:50 PM:

" Lattimore had an agenda for his elected service and that was to create jobs and lower taxes. Using government incentives/marketing and lower energy cost with alternate local sources. Quill just wanted to get elected. "

dan w wrote on Aug 6, 2008 2:30 PM:

" Who cares "

Farmer's Gal wrote on Aug 6, 2008 1:10 PM:

" No, I am talking about 103+ posts across 4+ days from more than a dozen different people, including some who haven't posted before or in a long while. I sent in a post just a few minutes before noon, and would like to see if it made it in and if there were any responses -- except the indexing is messed up and "you can't get there from here." "

dd wrote on Aug 6, 2008 12:37 PM:

" Hey Farmers Gal--do you mean the comment posted by AJ? The ones he was crying about to have everyone read, and comment? Never saw them. "

Farmer's Gal wrote on Aug 6, 2008 12:07 PM:

" The previous Two Cents column has not indexed correctly -- if you search for it, it's not there. It jumps from the 30 July Two Cents to the 6 August Two Cents -- the other one was 2 August, I believe, and it's not indexed -- even though it has at least 103 interesting comments I'd like to go back and see again as part of the on-going conversations. "

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