" I like my typo -- foodstuffs grown on fields spread with contaminated manure I called "craps" instead of "crops" -- LOL! "

" cvn, I agree Bush had experience in the economy by being gov of Texas. He DID have military experience. Obama Zippo! Obama, the only thing he has is change, yes we can, that's his experience. "

" Thats it AJ, being the gov. is absolutely nothing...can't come up with a intelligent answer so you discount any
reasonable explaination. Oh how typical.
Lets see, as governor Bush successfully sponsored legislation for tort reform, increased education funding and set higher standards for schools. Also, Bush used a budget surplus to push through a $2 billion tax-cut plan, which was the largest in Texas history.
BTW, the whole AWOL thing was proven to be a hoax and Dan Rather lost his job over it. Try Googling the "Killian Documents".
Can you say Fail? "

" "The general public, Liberal, Conservative or Moderate, makes bad decisions every day. Add a gun to that equation and innocent people will die. I don't want you to shoot me just because I unintentionally cut you off in traffic."

Most citizens that carry firearms, concealed or otherwise, do everything they can to avoid confrontation. You're insulting millions of honest, non-violent people by insinuating that just because they carry a gun, they're chomping at the bit to use it. It just isn't true.

"The rest of us are just waiting for the right circumstances to blow some poor slob away."

You might be, but most of the rest of us aren't, so don't project your instability on anyone else, it just doesn't hold true.

"Why don't we just strap on six shooters and meet on Genesee Street at high noon and shoot it out."

Another parroted argument... again, this doesn't happen.

"The constitution says you can bear arms to serve in a trained and regulated millitia."

Not really. Ask an English language expert about it, especially why they placed the commas where they did. And back then, "regulated" was defined as "having proper kit and provisions" or in the case of objects or machinery,
"properly maintained and kept in good repair". Not "controlled", "limited", or "restricted" as the word means today. "

" chris van note wrote on Jun 30, 2008 11:08 AM:
" Oh AJ, how about 2 terms as gov. of Texas?
Why don't you tell us AJ of all the important experience that Obama has that qualifies him to be President?
Diplomatic, executive, military... "

Oh yeah, the governor of Texas position. You're not serious are you? (rhetorical question) Real important job there..Didn't do much of anything there except allowed the execution of mentally retarrded people.

You're gonna have to do better than that Chris.

Personally, I don't care much for Obama. I do not think he will live up to his rhetoric and will simply turn out to be another tool of the establishment, same as Hillary.

Then there was his military experience, where he went awol "

" Farmer Guy still hasn't found any insurance to cover his health care. As a farmer, he makes enough to support himself, but not enough for the outrageously high premiums for farm workers -- considered a dangerous profession, they want literally 2-3 times the amount for other professions. He isn't poor enough for welfare, but he can't afford insurance either, in Auburn or Syracuse or anywhere else around, not that he's found so far.

BTW, thanks, AJ, for the link about Forefront and how it has worked its way into the human food chain and is poisoning people food -- in a nutshell for those who didn't follow the link:

An herbicide in Forefront (and some other preparations) is not OK for use on food crops, but has been used on grasslands later used for feeding cattle. The stuff kills off a lot of weeds without killing the grass. A year later, the grass is harvested as silage for dairy cows. The cows eat the silage, and produce manure, which was spread on fields where food craps were grown -- and caused the food to be deformed and poisoned -- a year later, and after passing through the cow, being spread, and taken up by plants. Dow has not yet recalled the product, they they admit to being the cause of the problem.

I am still wondering about the milk produced by those cows.... "

" Oh AJ, how about 2 terms as gov. of Texas?
Why don't you tell us AJ of all the important experience that Obama has that qualifies him to be President?
Diplomatic, executive, military... "

" AJ, have you read the Fair Tax Book? Even Charlie Rengle says he supports it. "

" So, tell me Chris, what experience did George Bush have that qualified him for the presidency?

I'll ignore the rest of your post because it is nothing but ad hominem with absolutely no substance whatsoever, which is typical for you. "

" sabrina: Sorry to hear about your friend.

I dont know exactly whats available in Auburn but in my area we have the local health department where care is available and based on "a sliding scale for payment" we also have many FREE cancer organizations plus a hospital thats well known that offers care on sliding scale too.

I am almost certain that if NOT Auburn there has to be something in Syracuse.
In the future contact local organizations and they will point you into the right directions of needed care.

We also have free clinics open 2ce a week by doctors and nurses volunteering their time. Along with a 2ce a month dental clinic that aids no less than 300 people per month--all free! "

" Very sorry for your loss, Sabrina. I know many people who have no health insurance because they can't afford it -- many of them hard-working people with jobs.

I've also been an unemployed college graduate (with grad degrees) for a length of time (I couldn't even get temp work, as I was told repeatedly that I was overqualified), so I know how that can happen.

Bottom line is -- you are right. Things like that should not happen. It won't bring your friend back, but maybe you can take your distress over what happened and use that energy to work towards improving the system -- so that her death can serve as a motivator to help prevent the same thing happening to others.

My sympathies to you and your friend's family. "

" I wish this country would do something about the lack of health care in our society. My friend was struggling to find a job for a few years, and she was a college graduate. She couldn't afford health insurance and worked part time with the temp agencies trying to survive. She died yesterday, as she had cancer and didn't know until it was to late. I blame our backward system, who lets people who have never worked get health care but not someone who has worked her whole life. Her death may have been prevented if she had been able to afford to see the doctor on a regular basis.
Shame on this country! "

" AJ is still bringing up Dennis "I saw a UFO" Kucinich and that complete nutjob McKinney (who sponsered a bill, at our expense, to find out who killed Tupac) and says that its some big corporate conspiricy to keep them down. I think AJ is the only one crazy enough to vote for either of those lunatics. But at least he and Karl have the Obamessiah:
In “the matter of national security policy making.” Barack Obama hasn’t ever done anything.
In the matter of gauging your “opponents”, Obama wants to meet with them without preconditions despite having no national-security, military, or diplomatic experience.
Barack Obama hasn’t been on the Senate Armed Services Committee.
Barack Obama hasn’t had any executive experience.
Barack Obama hasn’t commanded anything, in wartime or not.
Barack Obama hasn’t dealt with diplomats in any capacity at all.
Barack Obama hasn’t ordered the bombs to fall, although to be fair, he has associated himself with someone who has — William Ayers. "

" I thought you might be interested in this story FG.

Home-Grown Veg Ruined by Toxic Fertiliser
by Caroline Davies

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/06/29/9966/ "

" excnyer: On weekends it can often take a really long time. All the comments are checked first before they are posted, and I suspect they have fewer staff for fewer hours on the weekend. "

" How long does it take for a comment to post? Is 5 hours too long to wait? "

" Finally, Congress does something right...

FBI Data-Mining Slashed After G-Men Dis Congress

http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/06/there-was-a-tim.html "

" nature lover wrote on Jun 28, 2008 11:37 AM:
" Well said QT and to add - I feel the only way anything can be done or changed is thru a collaborative effort of the people. But at times there is so much going on just in ones immediate armthrow, its difficult to even imagine "fixing" the larger picture. We are in a time when we need a superior leader for this country and we AGAIN are reduced to two 'car salesmen'. Neither of which holds any true compassion of really getting the country back on track. "

Well, there was Kucinich. But the corporate media refused to give him a serious platform on which to make his stances widely known, and actively worked to marginalize him and, and ultimately kicked him out of the debates. The reason is that there is a conflict of interests.

And now we have McKinney, who unfortunately doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell, since the media ignores/marginalizes her as well. Both McKinney and Kucinich have/had very well laid out and thoughtful platforms - it's just that corporations felt threatened by them, especially those engaged in war profiteering.

There are good candidates from time to time, unfortunately, unless one is paying attention, the best most people get of these are a very fleeting look.

Now, given how widespread the internet it, there is no excuse why people weren't/aren't aware of these candidates, except for willful ignorance. "

" Well said, naturelover: people overwhelmed by immediate issues in our own lives, and I love the two (used!) car salesman analogy!

Can you repeat that, 1234567890, because I didn't understand a word of it. Well, OK, too many (innocent, civilian) Iraqis and Afghanis killed -- I agree. But re-duck-less? I guess "colution" means coalition. Please try again -- I think there's a message in there somewhere, maybe even one with which I'd agree, but I am stymied by your message -- there is a point at which inability to spell renders one incapable of communicating ideas. Not trying to be snorky, but I really can't make out more than a trace of what you are trying to say. "

" AJ.....there is a difference between a spelling error and a typographical error. We all make typos because our fingers will type faster before our brain catches up! Unless you are a hunt and peck typist...then I guess you're a lousy speller. "

" Nature,
most are hoping for a collaborative effort and a leader, BUT the facts are its all a wish, a dream, and mostly political hogwash!

The groups that seem to be really doing something are most of the NON-Profits..maybe our aid is best suited in those areas--even if it is a church and we dont believe in God.

The other day I read, in CA, Los Angeles county there were over 80,000 homeless,or living in their cars--that is double the population of Auburn!!

CA officials want to give tickets for these overnight parkers. My bet is it will be a church or several churchs opening thier lots.

I personally dont go to church every Sunday, but I enjoying aiding(making 200-300 homeless lunches),
and I give alot of credit to the people that do give up their time to help someone in need.

We have to be our own leaders and NOT wait for someone else to lead us!! "

" Grandpa says: regardless of the liberal supreme ccourts decision on guns, which is reduclas, we in wonder taxable ny have the sullivan law. now to the war in iraq & afghanistan, an unnecessary number of iraqis killed & an untold number of Afghans also killed. we know how many colution troops hane been killed in iraq, & many wounded. "

" Well said QT and to add - I feel the only way anything can be done or changed is thru a collaborative effort of the people. But at times there is so much going on just in ones immediate armthrow, its difficult to even imagine "fixing" the larger picture. We are in a time when we need a superior leader for this country and we AGAIN are reduced to two 'car salesmen'. Neither of which holds any true compassion of really getting the country back on track. "

" AJ wrote on Jun 28, 2008 8:02 AM:
" quiveringthigh wrote on Jun 27, 2008 10:15 PM:
" AJ, it sucks to be all alone without Katl with a K, doesn't it? "

Doesn't bother me - I actually have to laugh knowing the collective IQ of my adversaries here barely gets into the double digits.

Please, QT, you're as bad as movedsouth - why don't you post something substantive? That's a rhetorical question of course - I know your head is pretty empty and you cannot even if you tried. I have yet to see even ONE post by you that has had ANY substance whatsoever - that is pretty common with people who have nothing to contribute to the discussion.

BTW, before you decide to criticize anyone for their spelling, you should first know what you're talking about, and second, know how to spell yourself. "


I spell very well, thank you very much. Empty head???????? Don't think so. I do post intelligent and fact based. Then there are times when I just want to light a fire under someone like you. Furthermore, I think bickering about politics is ignorant. To each their own. I have more important interests to me, than to quibble about politicians, not to mention they are basically car salesmen by trade.
Sorry to offend you, oh moronic one. Don't you ever have anything else to post about? Do you venture outside your house and see what color the sky is??? "

" AJ: "I'll make a deal with you though - I'll discuss the issues without ad hominem if you do as well - this goes for everyone, actually.

Queenie, why...

Queenie? u start right off the bat there AJ too funny...

The DC decision on handguns was granted for two reasons only and one of them was not the constitutional one regarding the right to bear arms against the state..so the constitution was not the issue that was upheld. As SD O'Connor says many judges are not represented by the law as written but rather by their interpretation or public/private swayings. (not verbatum...). "

" For the record, there's a good deal more than three people who post here regularly: brew, AJ, movedsouth, Karl, cm, quiver, ANGMOM, theking, AndyB, naturelover, me, and some others who chime in from time to time as well. That's 11+ -- and the more, the merrier.

Yesterday there was an article on this site having to do with high gas prices keeping people from traveling. I sent in a response, but now can't find the article (was probably from the AP), so I don't know if it were posted or not.

Here it is again, somewhat out of context, but worth repeating, IMHO:

What's bad about Americans using less gas?

If we used trains to do the majority of cross-country shipping, we could save a lot more.

If we only shipped things across the country which we COULDN'T grow locally, we'd save even more -- and get fresher, healthier produce which wouldn't NEED to be gassed or genetically engineered to give it longer shelf life during the shipping.

Growing as much of your own as you can is good too -- more power to seed companies, and let's see more local seed companies and less power to national giants like Burpee.

I do see a point in that in the Middle Ages, ordinary people could not travel (much less relocate/move) out of their communities without the permission of their lord and master -- the nobility were better able to control the population this way. That's certainly not good.

But being forced to use fuel more efficiently is NOT A BAD THING.

People were forced to leave the countryside because cities sucked up all the jobs and production moved to the cities -- which were overcrowded, noisy, polluted and unhealthy -- still are. Once it was chamberpots emptied into streets already overflowing with horse droppings; now it's fumes from trucks and busses and noise pollution from so many people living practically on top of each other -- humans were not meant to live this way.

But since the advent of industrialized farming, it's not healthy to live in the countryside either, where your air is full of the toxic fumes from the spreading of liquid manure and the water supply is full of e-coli. Just heard today of a corporate agribusiness which shall remain nameless where they had out their heavy earth movers to fill in the channel where they had a thick spill of manure headed for a tributary of Salmon Creek -- for not the first time either. Now that they've filled it in so fast before it could be properly inspected, we'll never know if it actually reached the creek or not.

No sir, we are surrounded on all sides by toxins, carcinogens and other forms of pollution. Cutting back on driving to decease emissions can only be good. "

" Last night I was reading threw some articles on the VA.Tech shootings-One year later--I couldnt believe my eyes when one parent was very upset that laws havent been passed to "let every school student CARRY A GUN TO CLASS" !!

Now think of that happening in the future???

We here have had many GUN DEBATES--
in my house guns are not allowed, and never will be! In a crisis everyone will react differently-I think most will freeze/be in shock and having a gun on a the top shelf of the closet would do you no good.

In recent paper, we have had 6 kids accidently shot with parents guns (they found & played with) VS. 1 homeowner protecting his property..FIVE have died (includes homeowner) and one is in hospital today.
Now Occassionally the homeowner does get the bad guy-but odds are not in favor of that.
It is my decision, of guns being a useless object unless I was into hunting--which I am not!

Todays world there is so much anger and hate--it scary thinking how many guns are in the wrong hands, let alone parents begging for laws to allow their 18yr old to have them in a class at school.
Along with knowing some 18yr old are still in high school !! "

" Thanks, Budo -- I do support the rights of the citizenry to own guns, but don't own one myself. I don't have a problem with some safeguards and cautions, but there is also something to the fact that the people we REALLY don't want to have guns -- criminals -- will get around the safeguards and have them illegally, safeguards or no.

I don't have a magic answer to that, but I know the real reason we were guaranteed the right to bear arms was so we could overthrow our government should it become corrupt. That's the one argument you almost never see in the debate. I'm not suggesting revolution, just that we have a right to it as a citizenry should we deem it necessary, while our government, obviously, would prefer it not to be possible.

I try to be civil, but I get sucked down into lowly no-class behavior on occasion too. Some days it can be very tempting.... ;-) "

" I dont think most of us here are "hotheads"---we do sling some shots every now and then, sometimes more depending on the issue being discussed. But would we shoot each other--NAH,

I believe that: simply because no matter what, we all return--so if we havent busted up our computers in fits of anger--we are most likely not in the catagory of murder/death/kill. "

" quiveringthigh wrote on Jun 27, 2008 10:15 PM:
" AJ, it sucks to be all alone without Katl with a K, doesn't it? "

Doesn't bother me - I actually have to laugh knowing the collective IQ of my adversaries here barely gets into the double digits.

Please, QT, you're as bad as movedsouth - why don't you post something substantive? That's a rhetorical question of course - I know your head is pretty empty and you cannot even if you tried. I have yet to see even ONE post by you that has had ANY substance whatsoever - that is pretty common with people who have nothing to contribute to the discussion.

BTW, before you decide to criticize anyone for their spelling, you should first know what you're talking about, and second, know how to spell yourself. "

" You're right, cm, just because one is civil today doesn't mean they will be civil tomorrow. But that just further proves my point! Most of the characters on this forum (with the possible exception of Farmer's Gal) can't have a meaningful and intelligent debate for five minutes before the emotions begin and the insults are thrown about. Under the right set of circumstances, they'd be shooting at each other if they had the opportunity to do so. Just because someone has "the right" to own a gun doesn't mean that they should. We all have "the right" to have children, but that doesn't mean we all should. "

" Why don't we just strap on six shooters and meet on Genesee Street at high noon and shoot it out. Queenie would probably shoot himself in the foot. The constitution says you can bear arms to serve in a trained and regulated millitia. The supreme court is going to hell with all these conservative appointments from republican presidents. People that should not be allowed to carry guns are christians, muslims, and republican neo cons and any other felons that are not already on this list. So queenie when is your first millitia training session? Every time a husband and wife fight instead of taking a smack in the head the wife would get a bullet in the head. Every road rage idiot would be firing at will. Every juvenile that tries to break into a house or pull a prank would get a death sentence. Your neighbor has a loud party shoot em' all dead. You idiots can't see this? "

" sorry budobrubbie,
you are wrong about anyone being Civil, you would trust having a gun...
Just because one is civil today doesnt mean they will be civil tomorrow! "

" Every non-felon/non-mentally impaired citizen has the right to own a hand gun or any other gun. To make it mandatory would go against the constitution. "

" Sorry, I'd like to ammend my previous post. Famer's Gal is the only one of us who can own a gun, IMHO. She's the only contributor to this forum who consistently demonstrates patience and civility. She wouldn't use a gun unless her life depended on it. The rest of us are just waiting for the right circumstances to blow some poor slob away. "

" AJ, it sucks to be all alone without Katl with a K, doesn't it? "

" the king wrote: " budo are you on drugs? we should all be outraged that the decision was 5-4 and not 9-0. if people didnt have guns this would not be a democracy and you wouldnt be typing your liberal garbage on this liberal newspaper website. your in the wrong country if you think only police and military should have guns. "

Mr. King - I'm not a Liberal, and I didn't say ONLY LEO's or the military should own guns. I would trust some responsible citizens to own a gun, but not you folks. No offense, but given the right circumstances, most of you are nuts. The general public, Liberal, Conservative or Moderate, makes bad decisions every day. Add a gun to that equation and innocent people will die. I don't want you to shoot me just because I unintentionally cut you off in traffic. "

" movedsouth wrote on Jun 27, 2008 7:49 PM:
" AJ you must have stock answers to criticism, let's see "you have a reading comprehension problem is either 1 or 2. "

Why is it you never have anything substantive to say, movedsouth? Challenge my facts, if you can. That you have a comprehension problem is all here as plain as day and you haven't a leg to stand on.

I'll make a deal with you though - I'll discuss the issues without ad hominem if you do as well - this goes for everyone, actually.

Queenie, why not provide a link with some attribution? I've heard that argument so many times it's tiring, and I would be suspect of anyone indicating it is an utter failure. Sounds to me like it is most likely a phony story. I would take the Canadian health care system over ours any day, from everything I've seen as it stands now.

Isn't UNITY grand? Talk about a bs staged bunch of crap! It was sickening!

Now, for anyone interested here is an internet radio stream which is going to be airing clips of the torture memo hearings - hopefully you can catch it...
(I'd be willing to bet little if anything has been discussed about the hearings in the corporate broadcast media, and what they may have discussed would be biased to the "torture is OK" side of things. Am I right?)

mms://wm3.spacialnet.com/novamradio55700 "

" Our state, 3 days ago, decided to pay some big company 300,000 a year if it doesnt move overseas...
So now guess what? several other companies want the same deal..

I say let them move and dont buy their what they are selling!! "

" AJ you must have stock answers to criticism, let's see "you have a reading comprehension problem is either 1 or 2. "

" AJ AJ AJ DID YOU SEE THE ARTICLE ABOUT THE CANADIAN HEALTHCARE FIASCO. THEY GUY WHO ORGANIZED THE WHOLE HEALTHCARE SYSTEM SAID ITS FAILING BADLY AND THEY NEED TO PRIVITIZE IT. PEOPLE CANT GET THE DRUGS THEY NEED BECAUSE THE AREN'T COST EFFECTIVE. THEY ACTUALLY HAVE LOTTERIES IN CANADA TO SEE WHO CAN GO TO THE DOCTOR FIRST. THE COUNTRY CANT AFFORD IT. AND YOU WANT TO FOLLOW THIS SOCIALST CRAP SYSTEM. GIVE ME A BREAK. "

" budo are you on drugs? we should all be outraged that the decision was 5-4 and not 9-0. if people didnt have guns this would not be a democracy and you wouldnt be typing your liberal garbage on this liberal newspaper website. your in the wrong country if you think only police and military should have guns. "

" Posted recently on Two Cents: "All patriots are applauding the great Supreme Court decision on guns Thursday. Now we should make it mandatory that every non-felon be forced to carry a gun."

Yeah, that's just what we need. Every self-righteous hothead who thinks he owns the highway taking pot shots at anyone who mistakenly cuts them off in traffic. The public has demonstrated that it has very poor judgement; just look who we elected President for the last eight years. Other than law enforcement or the military, there are very few members of society that should own a gun. "

" Things are not what they seem. My post to dd was at 2:10 not 6:33. Let's keep thing up to date and not move an old post to a new one. "

" I'm not backpedaling at all, you just have a reading comprehension problem movedsouth. "

" Unless you can challenge me on the facts that I present, then you should consider yourselves the village idiot(s). You rarely if ever do, and instead resort to ad hominem attacks - which is a sign you have no valid argument to begin with.

I never said I was above being manipulated - you are right for once dd (whoa!!!), we are all manipulated by many different entities, people, institutions, etc. The trick is being able to recognize that fact. Good one DD, I'll give you credit for that - you actually said something intelligent!

I also never said that TV is totally useless. Again, people here have serious reading comprehension difficulties. My major point was that it DOES NOT GIVE YOU THE WHOLE PICTURE ON SERIOUS POLITICAL ISSUES, particularly where there is a glaring conflict of interest. Context is everything, and you'll get little of that from the corporate media.

Do you really think GE is going to allow a serious debate on its networks about nuclear energy or weapons proliferation, or the need for war, when they themselves are directly involved in and profiting from it?

Take the Iraq war as an example - how much has GE made of of the war? Why did they present "experts" that were pro-war 99% of the time in any serious discussion? (FAIR did a study on this BTW).

What I find curious here is that I haven't heard a "peep" about the "liberal" media in this thread. I should think that as "liberal" as many of you consider the media, you would have been agreeing with me more, albeit for different reasons. "

" dd, I have to challenge you on AJ being manipulated by teachers because he learned early on that what they taught in school was bs. I guess that's why he had the MANY years to research EVERYTHING! "

" " Most of you do NOT HAVE A CLUE as to how you have been manipulated into believing what you believe, nor do you have a clue as to just how seriously bad things REALLY are." No, you did not say that you were not above being manipulated, but it sure was implied." I also never said that TV is totally useless. Again, people here have serious reading comprehension difficulties. My major point was that it DOES NOT GIVE YOU THE WHOLE PICTURE ON SERIOUS POLITICAL ISSUES, particularly where there is a glaring conflict of interest. " Again you have seriously condemned TV. I really think you are trying to back peddle. Yes AJ, I can read between the lines! I think you are trying not to sound like like the village idiot that you are. "