" AJ--the problem with us challenging the "facts" you present, is that the "facts" were presented to you by someone who had an opinion one way or the other. Maybe you liked the facts, so you in turn presented them to us, or you disliked the spin, and in turn rejected them as twisted--ie Fox News--you call it Faux news. They present lots of facts. So does MSNBC, CBS, etc. It all depends on the source, and the person delivering the news that will determine as to whether or not the truth is skewed. Anyway, you say that you can tell the difference between tilted facts, and the down and dirty facts. For every fact you present, I am certain that there is an opposite and equal rebuttal that many will believe. So, where do we go from here AJ? You have your set of beliefs and morals based on someone manipulating you--remember that everything you believe may not be true but a manipulation. Later--going on Vacation to a really nice sunny place--or was I manipulated by the brochure to believe that--maybe it rains there 90% of the time. We'll find out FIRST HAND then I'll convey the facts. "

" Our state, 3 days ago, decided to pay some big company 300,000 a year if it doesnt move overseas...
So now guess what? several other companies want the same deal..

I say let them move and dont buy their what they are selling!! "

" Unless you can challenge me on the facts that I present, then you should consider yourselves the village idiot(s). You rarely if ever do, and instead resort to ad hominem attacks - which is a sign you have no valid argument to begin with.

I never said I was above being manipulated - you are right for once dd (whoa!!!), we are all manipulated by many different entities, people, institutions, etc. The trick is being able to recognize that fact. Good one DD, I'll give you credit for that - you actually said something intelligent!

I also never said that TV is totally useless. Again, people here have serious reading comprehension difficulties. My major point was that it DOES NOT GIVE YOU THE WHOLE PICTURE ON SERIOUS POLITICAL ISSUES, particularly where there is a glaring conflict of interest. Context is everything, and you'll get little of that from the corporate media.

Do you really think GE is going to allow a serious debate on its networks about nuclear energy or weapons proliferation, or the need for war, when they themselves are directly involved in and profiting from it?

Take the Iraq war as an example - how much has GE made of of the war? Why did they present "experts" that were pro-war 99% of the time in any serious discussion? (FAIR did a study on this BTW).

What I find curious here is that I haven't heard a "peep" about the "liberal" media in this thread. I should think that as "liberal" as many of you consider the media, you would have been agreeing with me more, albeit for different reasons. "

" dd, I have to challenge you on AJ being manipulated by teachers because he learned early on that what they taught in school was bs. I guess that's why he had the MANY years to research EVERYTHING! "

" So, what you are stating, AJ is that you are the only person who has not been manipulated by any source into believing in one side or another? Throughout life, everyone is manipulated. You are manipulated by your parents, then teachers, friends, etc. No one ever just forms an opinion about something, because the situation has to be delivered to you by someone. That someone puts their spin on it. I will keep my funny joke about you being the village idiot versus the village brain to myself. "

" AJ, I don't think it is worth re-reading your ridiculous posts. I guess I have a BA in 3rd grade education. Silly me, and to think I would half of the knowledge of someone that knows everything.
30yrs exp. with politics???? What position do you hold in the world of politics? Probably just a smack talker. "

" As I have stated a million times before--we cannot live in paranoia land, all politicians tell lies and have done "something" that someone doesn't agree with, there is NO perfect human.
AS a whole group, we have to take care of ourselves and aid those that we can, start by aiding a neighbor then move larger into aiding our communities.
Even with that done we cannot make life perfect-but we can make it a tad better.

We can put pressure onto those in office by writing letters, hoping they will do the right things to make "larger picture of life" better.
Or keep track of the wrongs and vote them out of office, but knowing that the next person may not be better either.
They all make promises to get elected, promises ARE NOT guarantees!! "

" AJ, I know you're not trying to be the village brain, but you got the first part right. I am not being manipulated by the media. If you believe you cannot find truth in the news media, you may just be the village idiot. You seek the news you want to hear and criticize people that are able to judge different points of view. "

" Per AJ:
"For you to want to remain willfully ignorant, NL says a lot about you, though obviously most of the others here seem to be as content doing the same. And you obviously have a comprehension or a logic problem..."

WOW not only are you the self proclaimed resident brain but apparently u are also the new Kreskin. I have zero comprehension/logic probs nor am I willfully ignorant. That was an ignorant over generalization of me/fellow posters and it truly oversteps the boundries of civilized people - u are not above any of us here. I have found I have the ability where 'I can very easily pick out the BS' almost every time that blatts out of the mouths of wannabes - there is one in every crowd/the embellisher. I dont nor do I want u to be my vast world informer - I am very informed about certain things, but dont claim to be all that. I dont know who u are nor do I care to. Lighten up, take a deep breath and realize you may be suffering from deep stress coming out in the form of paranoia. We will all be dead by the time the USA turns into 'Escape from NY'. "

" Did I type once a week I go to the gym? Sorry about that -- I go at least 5 days a week, and do some sort of workout at home on my own on weekends when I can. What was I thinking?!?? "

" Well quiverintthigh, when you make inane and stupid ad hominem attacks like that I think it is incumbent upon you to provide the proof. Trouble is you don't have any, so you can't. I'll pit my spelling skills against you any day of the week, without a spell checker.

No I would bet you aren't a 3rd grade teacher - you're more like a 3rd grader. "

" FG, I think to put a finer point on the bias issue, I would say it is more accurate to say there is a "corporate" bias. I agree with you that labels really don't help solve anything for the most part except divide people, and even though I realize that, I still find myself using them as a matter of convenience.. "

" It happens in a lot of your posts AJ. I will not research your crap to find your mistakes. I am not a 3rd grade teacher. "

" movedsouth wrote on Jun 26, 2008 5:58 PM:
" AJ probably doesn't have too many friends because of his superior intelligence. "

Sounds like you are really proud of your ignorance and stupidity movedsouth. "

" Nature lover, I'm not trying to be the village brain, but I AM trying to wake up the sleepwalkers here. I'm not any smarter than a lot of the posters here, but I am much more aware than most. Most of you do NOT HAVE A CLUE as to how you have been manipulated into believing what you believe, nor do you have a clue as to just how seriously bad things REALLY are. And I do have a great sense of humor, but not when it comes to this stuff - it is hard to be flippant when things are so dreadfully bad and getting worse.

For you to want to remain willfully ignorant, NL says a lot about you, though obviously most of the others here seem to be as content doing the same. And you obviously have a comprehension or a logic problem - where did I ever say lack of tv makes one smart? What I said essentially was that if you think you are getting the REAL news from television then you are deluding yourselves.

I have read probably over a hundred books relating to media/politics, read tons of articles online, and listen to and watch numerous online broadcasts and documentaries to have come to my current understanding of things, starting nearly 30 years ago.

So now, as FG astutely pointed out the need for it, I can very easily pick out the BS almost every time, in both print and broadcast media. It is essential to be able to do that today. Most of the people here that still support this war can't do it obviously, or they wouldn't be supporting it.

I know it's hard for a lot of you here since you never got past My Pet Goat, and still listen to and believe liars like Rush Limbaugh and Anne Coulter - two of the least credible people on the planet. That alone speaks volumes of your understanding of things.

Do all of us a favor, and start really paying attention, cause that is the ONLY way we'll ever get out of this mess we're in. "

" AJ probably doesn't have too many friends because of his superior intelligence. "

" Aj 'tis you that doesnt have a clue...
you live in a sad world of "everyone is out to get you"
every word spoken "is a lie" --how do you ever keep friends??? "

" Not having TV doesn't make me more intelligent -- it makes me less plugged into, less processed by and hence less brainwashed by the cr*p that gets pumped through that medium.

Not having TV also forces me to acquire information in ways that make me have to actively THINK about it more than can be done sitting passively in front of a stream of information. Aside from the crud on TV, the whole passive mode of learning is a problem.

I saw it when I did my student teaching at Auburn years ago -- the kids expected you to do a song-n-dance or action show to keep their attention, like TV, and getting them to actively participate in their own educations was like pulling teeth -- it was a mode for learning which was uncomfortable.

Even my "good" class --about 11 kids, all college-bound with good grades-- were conditioned to sit passively in their seats and take in whatever they were told and spit it back out on tests unprocessed, unsynthesized, to be rewarded with their good grades for not much effort on their parts.

When I expected them to compose their own thoughts and spit them out -- IN GERMAN -- that was difficult and uncomfortable for them, as much for being asked to actively DO something as because of the language difference (these were kids who were learning the language well on paper).

TV *conditions* people to a passive, non-critical, one-way consumption of information presented in a biased way that people just accept, falsely believing that the media is "objective."

[Though, if I were to confess to a guilty pleasure, the only TV I watch is to go to someone else's house during the season and watch NFL football. Not the History Channel or the Discovery Channel or the news (sometimes we watch Lou Dobbs on CNN), but plain old football. Pathetic, I know it, but there it is.]

And do I ever get up from my computer? I am running all over the place today, and put in at least an hour in the gym at least once a week. I used to play several sports, some for fun, some more seriously, and one professionally until I was injured and unable to continue, and miss that awfully. And I am an artist in a small way -- I even sold a commissioned painting once, and was featured in the Post-Standard once for my outdoor art.

So, you see, I am well-rounded -- intellectual, athletic AND creative.

And I really don't like to be pigeon-holed. My whole life is resistant to such. "

" having knowledge about things isn't a bad thing people.

it isn't hard to research a little about everything if you aren't wasting your time doing the mundane things that the "noarmal" person does, i.e. the stupid ones. "

" AJ, I'm just amazed at your knowledge! Having realized at an early age that what they taught in school was bs, you have really amassed a vast knowledge of everything. I have to believe that with what they taught in school, you left at an early age, not wanting to be subjected to that bs. That must have given you all that time to extensively research EVERYTHING. "

" Yee awn, more https I will nvr look at. Show showy AJ - I mentioned the hideous pants because u said your name was Art - must be mixing u up w/another. I honestly dont give a crap about TV - truly watch very little. My point was how its honestly laughable how some just try too hard to be the village brain - overly astute. The hip to be square dude. And I dont know maybe its summer but do u ever get up from your computer/web surfing? Do u have a real life that involves the rest of your body (not just the grey matter and your typing fingers)? Just seems trying too hard because a true high intellect has humor. "

" nature lover wrote on Jun 26, 2008 12:33 PM:
" Now AJ r u the one that walked around town in those hideous multi colored pants? "

No NL, I think that was you looking in the mirror..

If you think you are getting REAL news watching the boob tube, you simply have a very narrow understanding of the way things work and a limited knowledge of history.

anyhow, a great site for understanding television is at tvnewslies.org

Censorship in general is a highly relevant issue to the discussion. I highly recommend projectcensored.org. "

" Quivering thigh, please tell me what I have misspelled here. If you think my spelling is terrible, what does that say about you? And really, is that the BEST you can do?

FG, I completely understand what you are saying about getting a full range of perspectives and opinion. Unfortunately, virtually all of the information people get comes from a mere 6 corporations (it may be less now), and is virtually all the same. It is hard to find much in the way of anything that challenges the status quo in any of the corporate owned media system, particularly the tv broadcast media.

For me to get the conventional wisdom disseminated by the corporate system, I don't have to go very far - all I have to do is listen to what people are saying.

I find very few that are biased to the left, in fact, off the top of my head I can't think of anyone on tv, and only a small handful of people on radio (with any significant reach) who truly represent the left in this country. That's why I get such a kick when I hear so many continually moaning about a "liberal" media which simply does not exist, except perhaps on the entertainment side of things, but certainly not, or only marginally so, on the news and commentary side.

The one thing that my media studies have done for me is that I can usually figure out what they are going to say before they say it, on almost any given topic. My BS meter is finely tuned.

CM, you have no clue as to who the real idiots are, and that is part of your problem.

BTW FG, before you buy your house, you may want to spend some time on thehousingbubbleblog.com - highly recommended. Good luck! "

" Actually NATURE I on click on the links-
I have no problem with checking out anothers view-even if I dont agree.

I heard Auburn had some wicked storms come thru--we did too yesterday.
The wind lifted my patio table right off the deck-tree limbs are everywhere-a few pool toys are in the tree-lightning hit a neighbors tree, a huge chunk of it in his yard lucky it missed his house--full trash cans were blown several feet away....
more storms due in shortly..we are securing for Round 2. "

" Ret'g from yet another vacation my company pays for and I c all is the same on two cents - yee awn. I just luv how lofty some think they are. Like the LACK of TV makes you just that much intelligent - like we have all day to find the most arrogant/remote https to post here that 98% of us dont link on just to prove we have some opinion on EVERY thing imaginable. Now AJ r u the one that walked around town in those hideous multi colored pants? "

" When I read any articles on AOL or ??,
I always read the comments from others.
Weeding out the idiots, I get a better perspective of what others across the country are asking/saying/thinking.

Its not just "our areas" affected with the daily trials of life.

I agree FG, not many "search" for added info on most news stories YET all ages "search" for what interests them in the moment.

My 9yr olds interest is Webkins, yet the comment I made about Obama & the pin was from a question she asked, "didnt he say before he wasnt gonna wear the pin?"
Something (elections), I thought she was paying no attention too.

The next 2 older kids search for Music & movie downloads-and whine how gas is affectiong their "fun" plans.

The oldest is searching for added ways to make more money-for he owns a house/business and the "costs" of daily needs are rising, while the business is lowering.
He is paying more attention to elections,laws,energy ideas than last year at ths time.

It's US, the parents being more involved and more informative SEARCHING for better ideas, not only for us but for our kids futures. "

" Good to know that Heller VS DC went the right way. "

" Kudos to the Supreme Court today. "

" Is the Auburn School District Capital Improvement vote today? "

" AJ -- just a word of support from someone else who cut out TV -- 28 years ago:

You are entirely right about TV media and their biases. Some are "right" and some are "left" but those two labels are more and more meaningless in our times (coming as they do from on which side of Parliament British lawmakers sat centuries back).

The news media, both newspapers and television, have a very standard bias, or slant if you will, and if you really want to know what's going on, you have to do two things:

1. Pay attention to what the news media are saying, but more to read between the lines than to take any of it at the face value with which it is presented.

2. Actively seek out alternative sources for news from the full spectrum of views. Only by reading from one extreme to the other, and everything in between, can you start to get a whole enough picture to decide for yourself what is likely to be closest to truth.

Mostly people don't have time or energy or access to sufficient resources -- much less the level of interest -- to go to that much trouble. It's on this fact that the media handlers count -- that most people will just take the news as it is presented and believe what the handlers intend you to believe.

At its core, none of it has to do with "left" or "right," but more to do with who is in power finding ever more ways to consolidate and increase their power at the expense of the rest of us -- keeping the masses contented and distracted away from any important issues where real change might occur should people wake up and see what's been going on. "

" AJ, sorry I forgot how bright you are, did your father call you sunny? "

" i have to refer to the ever present whining about 'the tree of life' letter. the tree of life grew in the garden of eden and produced a fruit that gave eternal life to anyone that ate it. this has absolutely nothing to do with material wealth. i think material wealth has more to do with 'you reap what you sow'. your garden will not grow unless you plant seeds, water and nurture your plants and remove the weeds. this entire scenario entails something called work. good jobs are rare and hard to find but as long as you have worked and trained to qualify for employment then your odds of being successful increase appreciably. if you merely wait for jobs to come looking for you then forget it and just be satisfied with the free money you collect from the government. "

" Not all tax delinquents are poor people losing their homes. Many are tax dead beats that dodge paying their fair share until they get a sufficient threat to pay. As for those that are poor and can't pay their taxes, who is going to help them out? The taxpayers that are left are supposed to pay the poor guys share also? I don't think so. If you can't afford the mortage and taxes try renting. "

" Movedsouth, I've forgotten more than you'll ever know. I've studied the media system and our political system in depth for the last 30 years. I don't need you to tell me anything.

I realize you are too blind to notice, but most of the news you get these days is essentially the same stories, the same lead ins, at virtually the same time, all with the SAME bias and UNDER reporting, punctuated with commercials that magically appear at the same time across channels. EVer notice and wonder why that is? It is because out of all those channels, guess how many corporations control them? I know you do not know the answer, it is a rhetorical question.

So think about that next time you want to lecture me about where to get REAL news. I already know you CANNOT find it, except on very rare occasion, in the corporate owned media system. "

" AJ, you really sound like a true moron. Your spelling is terrible. I have to read around what you are trying to say. How did you ever get this far along in life??? I wonder if the person holding your hand through life is as blind as you. "

" AJ of course you dont think the BOOKS you read are one-sided either, right?

How many TV news stations are there with how many different opinions? Many more than ONE writer! "

" AJ, I can picture you with a 57" TV and rabbit ears! There are several stations on TV, you decide what is right. WHEN YOU GO LOOKING ONLINE OR READ, IT'S WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR AND NOT AN OPEN OPINION. I can look at a web site and find what I want to see. Keep up with your closed minded sites and books. No sense in being confused. Do you miss your bbuddy karl? "

" I have a TV - a 57" at that. Disconnected Dish over two years ago though - best thing I ever did. There were only about three channels worth watching, but I can view those online, at least the important stuff.

You need to get this through your thick head, movedsouth - the news you get from TV is the news they want you to hear. They leave out all the good stuff, and slant to the right that which they do tell you about. If you ever take your gaze off the TV to do a little serious reading (I have made recommendations here in the past), then you might have a better chance of seeing through all the BS and get past your doublethink. Get back to me when you understand that. "

" AJ, buy a TV and get up with the REAL news. You go online and read books to get your news. I can also go online to get the news I want to hear! Wake up and get in the real world. "

" cm, I gag whenever I read your inane posts. "

" In my area commercials with Obama are airing daily-him saying he loves his country and he's wearing his PIN..
I nearly choke/gag everytime it airs, as I replay the video: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Story?id=3690000 "

" It's not up to the taxpayers to keep people in their homes. It's up to the homeowners to live within their means. "