" It's a bold move by Palesh to close the Frederick St fire station but I beleive it was the right thing to do. I live in an area where I thought 911 calls w/b answered by that station but rarely saw a truck heading north with sirens. Seems all fire trucks came from the north or the downtown station. Besides the fire chief said he was on board with this and who better to know the situation? "

" It's a shame Mr. Palesh is ruining the city. "

" What a shame to close down the Frederick Street Fire House. Here comes the law suits when something happens because the fire department didn't get to there fast enough. "

" Chaos- The marines don't send men into combat until they have finished basic training. "

" I agree, ANGMOM -- but if The Citizen put on such an event, they'd probably have to hire security, LOL! Plus, think about it, anyone could walk in and claim to be me, or you, or anyone else and how would we know they were lying? (Maybe not, because I talk the same way I write).

BTW, I did finally get a chance to try out the new Swaby's. My son and I stopped in there for a bite to eat this past Saturday. It's very nice -- the food was good, reasonably priced (not cheap, but not expensive), the bartender was very friendly (she thanked me three times, LOL, for teaching her a new drink: my favorite "White Irishman" -- which is a White Russian with whiskey instead of vodka), and the setting was still full of quirky, oddball stuff, though some of the more way-out stuff has disappeared.

And now that they serve food, it's OK to bring an under-21 in with you.

Too bad I am just not a night person and missed the re-opening. "

" "(GA) A group of third-graders, ages 8 to 10, plotted to attack their teacher, bringing a broken steak knife, handcuffs, duct tape and other items for the job and assigning children tasks including covering the windows and cleaning up afterward.
the students apparently planned to knock the teacher unconscious with a crystal paperweight, bind her with the handcuffs and tape and then stab her with the knife.
Children are too young to be sentenced to a youth detention center."

A serious kiddie boot camp is much needed!! "

" Chaos and oldtimer, thank you for weighing in with your perspectives. It's appreciated. cm too. It's not a world I know well.

But I would like to separate the issue of how a marine or other military person thinks of him- or herself and address instead just the point about how the media talks about people in the military, specifically when they are injured or killed.

The way the Media has been using the term "troop" is just plain misuse of the language; "troop," according to all the definitions listed in the OED always, refers to a GROUP of individuals, never a single individual. It's an inaccurate use as well as just plain bad grammar.

The Media has been not been using the term "troop" as a way to honor the feelings of brotherhood and One-ness felt by marines or other military personnel. If they were honoring your brotherhood, perhaps they'd say "a group of marines were killed today" to place emphasis on your being marines more than plain persons, but "troop" is about as generic as you can get.

(Do marines really have that same feeling of being "one" with sailors, national guardsmen, foot soldiers, etc? I've never had that impression, though I could be mistaken. Correct me if I am mistaken, but I've always thought marines are a tight group specifically as marines, and see themselves as an elite, with a higher code of ethics and, as you say, One-ness or brotherhood, of LOYALTY to fellow marines, not as generic service personnel).

No, I don't believe for a minute that the Media has picked up on that term out of respect or as a way of honoring military personnel and their One-ness. Rather, it is a way to blunt, desensitize and diminish the deaths of Americans fighting in the war down to a blank, depersonalized, flat, generic term.

Do you not have more emotional associations with the word "marine" than with the word "troop?" "Marine" surely says to you honor, pride, loyalty, specialized training, earning the right to call yourself by that name, comaraderie, team, one-ness, brotherhood and much more about which I don't know? But "troop" is just a flat, generic term with little emotion associated.

If you had to die in the service of your country, would you not rather die a marine than a "troop?" "

" so true FG,
all of the candidates have their pockets full of "buy me" sticky notes!
The facts are Obama has "raised" the most monies, I am sure when they wash is done his totals from corporates will be higher than pubicly spoken right now.
Give it another month or two and really watch the mud-slinging.

Right now I am still voting for "none of the above" "

" Now Chaos and oldtimer,
I am sure FG means well on the "troop" issue. In my job I have stores-corporate labels them all numbers-I on the other hand label them all names.
At times we seem to be talking about different places for I don't memorize their numbers and corporate doesn't memorize their names!
It reminds me of Judges and how everyone is case number and NOT a person.
YET being from a military family, I understand it's a totally different kind of family. Just as the guards, police, and firefighters have THEIR families, In these types of families we are ONE!

ANGMOM3--ALL of us in the same room--hahaha wouldn't that be a Citizen Front-Page News!! hahaha
ps. I don't care if you type in caps-if it makes it comfortable for you to read easier--CAP AWAY!!! "

" I say let all the KAVETCHERS who P___ and moan about the firemen, be given a tax dispensation....BUT when their home catches fire OR they need some other emergency help from AFD....send two untrained people or better yet...SEND NO ONE....think of the tax savings. "

" OldTimer,

Semper Fi Mac... Great to make your aquaintance. IRT the previous posts and the problem of collectively isolating individuals as "troops", I consider it a compliment when someone lumps me into that band of brothers simply called Marines. Take me to my grave simply as a Marine and I will consider it an Honor. Just my personal thoughts, I am sure you and "all" Marines agree with them, but I do not expect some to appreciate such statements. Not a hit on them, just a reality of serving a lifetime in the Corps.

Stay safe devil dog...

Chaos "

" Sorry for posting again in caps. I forget to stop that, due to my vision "

" this site is better than the comic's
"Thanks".Thanks "CHAOS" didn't know
there was another Jar-Head out there!!!
"semper fidelis" "

" I WOULD ENJOY MEETING ALL OF YOU ONE DAY. IT WOULD BE A MOST INTERESTING CONVERSATION. "

" From an AP article published fleetingly on this site (you never know when these things will just disappear):

[Begin quotation]

True enough, Obama does not take money from oil companies. No candidate does. It is illegal for corporations to give money to politicians. Corporations, however, do have political action committees that collect voluntary donations from employees and then donate them to candidates. Obama doesn't take money from PACs. He also doesn't take money from lobbyists.

But he does accept money from executives and other employees of oil companies and two of his fundraisers are oil company executives. As of Feb. 29, Obama's presidential campaign had received nearly $214,000 from oil and gas industry employees and their families, according to an analysis by the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics. Clinton had received nearly $307,000 from industry workers and their families and Republican Sen. John McCain, the likely GOP presidential nominee, received nearly $394,000, according to the center's totals.

[End quotation]

So, the bottom line is ALL THREE viable candidates are taking money from Big Oil -- what kind of "choice" is that for the voter? Is it even possible in this country to get on the final ballot if you aren't bought and sold by Big Oil?!?

Obama seems to have taken less than his fellow candidates, and he is making a big production out of it, but that just makes him the lesser of three evils. Sigh. "

" I guess maybe I didn't word what I was meaning exactly right here yesterday... I understand of course all those professions I mentioned require on the job training. Doctors put in hours of interning, any driver must first get behind the wheel & practice before showing up for a road test, electricians must apprentice first under licensed electricans before being able to become licensed themselves. My point was simply that I don't think they should be part of the 15 man minimum. Of course go with the firefighters when called to a scene, that's how they learn what can't be taught in a classroom or a vacant building, the teamwork, the split second decisions etc. But we're talking 2 guys here, they'll be fully certified soon, just wait. That's all. Safety first. "

" But, cm, they aren't referring to units when they report these "troop" deaths in the news -- they are referring to the deaths of individuals.

If a whole group, unit, patrol, battalion, whatever the size group, were all killed, it would make sense to say "a troop was killed." But the media has very recently (past year or so) begun referring to individuals as "troops."

I've played professional sports, where the "team" has to be ONE and either win or lose, and individuals within the group watch each other's backs in a gridiron "battle," where you stand or fall depending on how you work as ONE. You might say a team won or lost a game (as one "troop" might win or lose a battle), but you wouldn't say one "team" was injured or traded or franchised. You say one "player."

It very conveniently depersonalizes the deaths of living, breathing human individuals to call them by the group term "troop," as if they had no meaning as persons. "

" I think we need to move on with the union complaints with the city. Biting the hand hand that feeds you, is not smart. I just retire from the city and just move out in the country. I went to the fire department that covers me where I live and was amazed to the training the volunteers do. And I ask the question about recruit training. And got a answer from the chief there and he told me that every firefighter goes to school and gets fire fighter 1 training and then he let let work around the fire grounds for training. And also I was surprise that the volunteer has real nice equipment there. Maybe the city firefighters should go and look at the volunteers trucks, they shine. the city trucks are a real dull shine.
I think these recruits need on the job training. Wake up union members and work with the city with this contact. Or the city should look else where for fire fighters. "

" FG,
I think they say "troop" because in the military you are "whole."
Each unit is ONE.
The military have a totally different comradery than we do in our daily lives with friendships. "

" "Married troops can live together in Iraq," the headline says.

Geez, I wish the media would refer to people as people instead of depersonalized groups. "Married soldiers" or "married servicepeople" or "married servicemen and -women" or even "married military personnel."

It just really rubs me wrong when they announce that "3 troops were killed today in a suicide bombing." No, three PEOPLE were killed, three soldiors, three servicemen (and/or -women) -- not "troops." I've even heard them say "One troop was killed today." How ridiculous and insulting. That "troop" was an individual human being, not a faceless depersonalized "troop." "

" Folks,

I will never minimize the fine efforts of our fire fighters and the dangers that they might face, but, as a retired Marine, I ask you; is a young Marine recruit, thrown into combat, worthy of the task of defending his fellow Marine without having faced a bullet or a mortar or a artillery shell. Of course he is; and he will be better for it.

The excuse that a "recruit" is not worthy is pathetic, it makes me gag to read the arguments of this post; anyone in defense is ignorant, no excuse. The issue here is not capabilities of the individual firefighter but more so Union demands. Time to get a grip and do the job you have selected, young or old. Quit the whining already and get rid of your Union representatives, or at least change leadership and priorities. It is intuitively obvious that it is not the mission that is valued here but the benifits and compensation of the employment. Pretty much a NYS standard, not sure I blame you, but, I moved the heck out of state because of it.

Chaos "

" You do know that the POLL on the main page is really worthless..
One person can just sit and vote a hundred times.

Maybe the paper should change that-like AOL has polls and you can only vote ONCE! "

" Chippy, I think your 1st comment if way off base.
Almost every job today is On-the-job training, that includes electricians, plumbers, auto mechanics, and even surgeons.
Have you not been to University Hospital and 10 people walk in WITH the doctor?
I am sure the newbies didn't just walk into the fire station and say "Hi I am a fireman", with no classes what so ever!
Plus if there was a huge fire, with more than 13 needed, the surrounding areas would come aid.

"

" Hmmm...
7000 protestors in Ukraine holding signs "Yankee go home" because they prefer communism over NATO,
YET the USA is the largest single donor to THEIR nuclear plant in Chernobyl.

I vote for "go home" and take our dollars with us!!! "

" steve dallas--point taken, but answer me this--if you have say, 13 "trained" guys at a fire scene instead of 15 where two are not "as trained" as the other 13, please explain to me what the heck the difference is?! It's not like these two "newbs" are REPLACING two experienced guys? They're simply two more guys helping to share the load, right? Who says they have to go in the fire in place of the more experienced guys? Your point doesn't seem to make sense from that angle? "

" The reason being karl is that you never know when something may go wrong on a fire scene, And they need all that training to beable to help rescue a down fire fighter or in the case of multiple people trapped! Everyone keeps crying about the overtime, why not cry to council and timmy lattimore for not hiring the 4 people required with the new contract(Which they filled for 2 years with overtime rather then highering) and there would have been hardly any! Put the blame where it is due! "

" Without the classes that you are speaking of, many of those departments people can not enter a structure fire, because they dont have those classes! "

" Correct me if I am wrong, but I donot think that the surrounding volunteer Fire Depts. send their new volunteers to a full time training school, its all done with classes and on the job training at their fire house. I think the volunteers are as professional and as good as any Auburn fire fighter. "

" Chippy--good points, but most experience is the real education. Why do you think that physician residents work so many hours? It isn't because the hospital is short staffed. It is to train them to use instinct when they are beyond exhaustion. It is similar in most any job. Its fine if a firefighter learns how to operate equipment, but can he or she utilize the equipment under stress? Better that they figure that out when under the supervision of an experienced fire fighter than in a classroom. "

" chippy, there are what--13 other competently trained firefighters manning the tucks and hoses at all times! The other two guys who will learn on the job and from a safe distance would help to end the abuses of the overtime system, which the FD union seems to have figured out how to "fix" to benefit its members. You sound like you think nobody would have a brain enough NOT to send these guys into a burning conflagration on their first week out--please, get a grip! "

" To me the skill level of professions you list dont compare... "

" I am not a firefighter & I too, am getting a little sick of hearing about the firefighters. But in reference to the question "should the firefighters be fully trained before becoming part of the 15 man minimum?", to those of you who said no, let me ask you this: Would you want to be operated on by a "doctor" that hasn't finished medical school? Would you want to have your prescriptions filled by a "pharmacist" who never graduated pharmacology school? Would you want to drive knowing you were sharing the roads with people who've never had a driving lesson? Would you want your house re-wired by an "electrician" who has no electrical training? I rest my case. Why would you want 2 not fully trained firefighters on the job when the house & lives they get called to save, may be yours?! "