" I found the two cents, in the sports section instead of the opinion section when was it moved????

Jeanne "

" I also would have to say the Shortstop wasn't the most classiest place to go{ used to keep pouring ice in the urinal because the water was plugged up) but it was a place everybody in the city went to. why? the simple reason is that you didn't have to be a phony to go in there. everybody went there to have a laugh and get away from the stesses of everyday life. we need more places like that especially in todays world. plus Billy treated everybody the same like an s.o.b. "

" CM obviously cannot defend him/her self on any of this.

"

" I'm just curious - has anyone here looked at any of the links I provided?

You just might learn something you know...

AJ "

" CM, do you by any chance have stock
in KBR?


"

" Farmer's Gal, please stop painting all corporations with the same brush. Your arguments professing that corporations are ruining the country and hurting the "little" people are tiresome. There are good corporations and bad corporations. Some corporations are large and some corporations are small. Some corporations follow the law, and some corporations break the law. The corporate entity is not going anywhere. Deal with it. "

" So by your twisted logic, once could assume that because everyone else is doing it, it must be OK for KBR?

Your argument is a non sequitur. I use KBR as an example partly because they ARE the largest, and because our criminal VP is still getting deferred compensation from them. CAn you say "conflict of interest". No, you can't, because you feel that profiting from war is OK.

CM, you really are a piece of work. "

" By "coincidental" I mean, you are going to buy gas whether there is a war on or not, so if you were profiting from the war in some semi-indirect way because of buying gas, that's coincidental, not as if you were going out of your way to purposely support the war -- the way corporations with a stake in the raw money profits do.

Or you might be "coincidentally benefiting" as an individual because some woman's abusive husband of whom she lived in fear for her life went off to the war and got himself killed -- now she's are free of him. Did that person benefit from the war? Sure, but it's not like it was planned -- it happened by chance, which turned out to be lucky for that one person in the long run. It's not like that's a regular and expected benefit of the war for large numbers of people. "

" CAn you name any executives of KBR that have paid that ultimate price CM? I doubt it.

The infrastructure that we needed? in Vietnam? Have you been living under a rock for the last 40 years?

Do you read anything or listen to anything besides government propaganda? Seems not.

Your neanderthal mindset is deeply disturbing. "

" YES!!! Exactly -- profit comes with a price tag we should NOT be paying in terms of human lives lost to fill some corporate pockets! Do you think KBR really cares if they lose a few employees in pursuit of their huge profits?!?!?? Not much more than they care about all the non-KBR employees who die in the war so long as the big bucks keep rolling in.

Just because KBR is the biggest and there are others means nothing and is irrelevant. It doesn't make what they do right because there are others doing it anymore than it makes it OK for one kid to steal because all his friends are doing it too. There is no logic in that.

And I'm not talking about investing or not investing, I'm talking about the management of corporations who lobby for WAR (death, destruction and waste) to continue strictly to keep their profits high. Yes, it is the normal thing for a company to want profits, but to pursue a destructive political objective -- with highly paid professional lobbyists -- with no regard to the fact that it involves the enormous waste and deaths of Americans (and others) is absolutely immoral.

Gas prices were a lot lower before the war, and every time things go badly, they corporations use it as an excuse to jack the prices up more, so I think you are totally off-base to say the mark-up is more without war.

Also, we can't forget all the corruption in the services during wartime of those supplies and equipment for which the American tax payer pays but which never get to the servicemen and women who are supposed to be using them, but rather get sold on the Black Market to profit individual servicepeople's pockets -- on a scale they can't get away with in peacetime at home. There's so much of it, the government can't even track it all. (I don't know that they try very hard).

It is absolutely the place and duty of every American to stand up and say this is wrong and has to stop until our government puts an end to these totally immoral practices. "

" KBR isnt the only company getting goverment contracts--they just happen to be largest in the USA.
KBR info:
est 1900's
built the first petroleum laboratories/ improved welding techniques/
worked with leading refiners/
provided basis for lead in cryogenics/ aided in coal-to-synthetic fuels along with ethylene and the development of the ammonia process/built one of the world's first offshore oil platforms/
Part of a consortium of 4 companies that built about 85% of the infrastructure needed by the Army during the Vietnam War.

14,000 U.S. employees in Iraq:
As of 2007, 98 American KBR employees & subcontractors have been killed, and more than 430 have been wounded by hostile action while performing services under the company's government contracts in Iraq, Afghanistan and Kuwait.
Profit comes with a price tag for all--huh??


"

" So CM, if I read you right, you're OK with war, as long as you're profiting from it?

You are so twisted its pathetic.

"

" "coincidental occasional benefit?"
(is that something Martha Stewart's lawyers said?)
PLease! The mark-up of products bought buy our military when there is no war-is beyond our financial wallet.

Whom ever owns oil/invested in oil/sugar/metal/etc. and its public knowledge and they owned/invested for many years(thru the ups and DOWNS of the market) --would only make me foolishly jealous because I didn't do it, they did and made a profit!
of course I could have and took the chance of having a loss too, either way its my personal money and if I choose to invest and take a chance who are you to degrade me, or say I am immoral for doing so?
aka, supply & demand. "

" I think if the people of Auburn put the same amount of time in saving their community, schools and it's children, that they do blasting political figures and city hall, the world would be a much better place. There will come a day that we wil have to band together. I hate politics as much as the next guy but complaining about it isn't helping. While everyone is looking and blaming one way, our children our suffering and their grades are dropping. "

" Well said FG. That's exactly what I was referring to, and I thought it was so glaringly obvious that I didn't spell it out - good thing you took up the slack for those less cognizant.

Speaking of war profiteering, what you probably didn't know about KBR...

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/31595

This just gets worse and worse as time goes on and new information is uncovered. The depth of depravity boggles my mind, and spans many administrations.

Also, not included in this link, is information that has recently come to light that KBR is not paying FICA taxes for their workers, using a shell company in the Cayman Islands for hiring purposes. I'll get a link to this and post it later.
"

" LOL Im rude cause I asked you why you read them? goodone
"

" There is an enormous distinction, a huge difference, between an individual who COINCIDENTALLY profits from war, say, from availability of certain commodities, and some company with a military contract to make weapons systems or jets or some such and which spends part of its profits on lobbyists to keep the war going (because it is making them rich), or a politician who supports war because s/he needs the financial or political support of some such corporation. These latter are the immoral behaviors to which I think AJ is referring.

Unfortunately, it is not practically possible to just stop using gas or sugar or metal or plastic or what-have-you, even when you are vehemently against the war, but you know what? We had those things without the war too, and we might have some of them at better prices without the war, and we'd all certainly have more money in our pockets to spend on things without the war.

There is no comparison between the immoral behavior of war-profiteering and the coincidental occasional benefit to individuals caused by the war. The negatives far outweigh the positives in terms of lives lost (or permanently damaged, including about 1/3 of our troops coming home with PTSD, depression or anxiety disorders), money wasted in obscene quantities, economic instability at home, increased diplomatic problems and so much more.

There is no comparison. "

" LOL Skimming to get the gist is the same as reading! And there is nothing rude about me asking you why you read them if you dont like him! "

" Mr Dullas, I did not read them, but skimming thru the Opinion page, you can get the gist of things. I am starting to get the idea you don't like me. You are kind of rude. I am not whining, but I would love to speak to you in person. See how rude you really are. "

" cm wrote on Mar 6, 2008 11:48 AM:
" IF profiting from war IS IMMORAL,
then why are YOU using GAS to fill your car?
Why are you using the METAL that makes your car?
Or eating the fruits from Hondurus or wherever?
Or eating/adding SUGAR to your diet?

I wish we as a country lived ON OUR OWN-bought & made in the USA! BUT reality is that will NEVER be. I/nor Pres.Bush put these laws into effect/free-trade they were there long before I/WE were born!!! (by democrats)

Be real here--the facts are facts--PEOPLE will profit!

I just wanted to be sure that others did not miss out on this piece of wisdom by CM in a now outdated ltte comments section.

As I responded, her logic is so convoluted and moral compass so unglued I'm not even going to begin to answer - I'll just let this nonsense speak for itself. And I will leave with this quote:

"The enormous gap between what US leaders do in the world and what Americans think their leaders are doing is one of the great propaganda accomplishments of the dominant political mythology."
Michael Parenti "

" stevedallas, good comment!
I always scroll down first to see the writer-wanting to brace myself ahead of time for good letter, comical letter, or plain "same words different day ranting" letter! "

" Then why did you read them? "

" Wasn't Murray Lynch that whiny little brat that used to whine and complain in the Citizen years ago? I hated his writings. "

" It's refreshing having some class & professionalism in city hall again. They're getting down to city business, instead of the power trips and personality problems that we've had before. "

" AJ I read-Funny how after Mr. Butler retired, from probably a very good pay rate at that time working for the government, he makes speeches and writes books against the government.

It ranks up there with Lucie Arnaz writing horrible things about her mom AFTER DEATH--no guts to say them face to face--for a war hero he was a coward!

I have always stated that YES someone makes a profit-its the way of life.

With every item you purchase, every show you see, every TV show you watch, every newspaper you read, every organization you give to, basically Everything You Do-- SOMEONE PROFITS!

"

" Amen Farmers Gal....and I too have been to the 34 Club during a snowmobiling ride...fun place with good, simple people. "

" Murray Lynch reminds me of Mrs.Harriet Olsen on "Little House on the Prairie"

God loving yet overly critical...lol "

" Why is someone always griping about what/how much money Murray Lynch recieves? I don't know the man but I hear that he like 80 years old,
-maybe he worked all his life and deserves it?
"

" Looks like somebody deleted a whole bunch of posts..... Shame on you. "

" Places such as folks here describe the Shortstop as having been are not my cup of tea per se, but I understand the good of having such places where local, regular, working class (and other) folks feel comfortable -- somewhere they can go out, hang out with friends and not feel they have to dress up or act as if they were in "polite company." (The kind of place the Farmer Guy loves to go, like the 34 Club in Scipio Center).

The Fargo in Aurora was like that -- before Pleasant Rowland came in and let everyone know she didn't care to have "that kind of people" around, messy up her picture-postcard image of our town for her snooty tourist friends. I wasn't a regular, but I respect the desire of regulars to have such a place.

*****

I don't know much about Brower, McNabb and Quill, but I am getting ready to watch Katie Lacey work to scuttle the run of yet another fellow Democrat she doesn't like -- and I don't see how that's in the interest of "her" party (which she treats as if it were indeed her own personal organization). "

" In Liverpool/Electronics Pkwy had a power outage also just prior to 11am for 5 mins - hmmm, maybe was more than ice buildup on Wright Ave. And gas has been cheaper at the Auburn BJ's for about a week now than the Syr one. This is a 1st in months. "

" It’s obvious the police cannot control all the speeders, cell phone while driving, and red light runners in the city. The reason is because they do not have enough man power to do so. It seems they are always in the same parts of town day in and day out. The law breakers are putting my life and yours in jeopardy. I wonder if we can do something about it, so I think I have an answer. Can I volunteer to help them do their job? I do not feel it requires a lot of training to know that somebody ran a red light or stop sign, or talk on a cell phone while driving. We could take down their license number and report them to the police. I will be the first to volunteer some time to help them. I guess it would be like a city-watch dog, but in relation to traffic control. I think it would be a good idea, and really would not take a lot of training to volunteer. Just think of all the fines the city could take in, and it may even lower our taxes some. "

" brew1234, stifle yourself ya mutant.

The Shortstop was awesome! It was a simple bar, with simple pleasures. Yeah, it was pretty run down for the most part, but ALL of us patrons didnt care about the flash or image of the other bars - it was a place you could have a cold can of beer for a buck (yes, a buck), a bag of chips and relax & enjoy some TV with your friends and entertaining banter with Mr. Kufs. And you say danger? What kind of danger are you talking about? There were NEVER any problems in that place. And yeah, Kufsy ran a bookie ring out of there....so what? Everyone was in on it...cops, firemen, local politicians, you name it they walked through those doors to place bets. You didnt see any of them complaining, you sissy!

Besides theres plenty of watering holes in Auburn that had major drugs, weapons and fighting issues non-stop. Everyone knows the places im talking about...however out of respect I wont name them here. "

" I do not understand why anyone who will not put their hand over their heart during the pledge of alligance, and who also has a spouse who never felt proud to be an American until just recently should be taken seriously as a Presidential candidate. As for not being proud. I do not know about anyone else but each time I hear the National Anthem, see a parade with veterans in it or hear that once again our country goes to the aid of another during a natural disaster, (regardless if they are allies or not), make me proud to be an Anerican. And the excuse given after their was an out rage over the comments is nothing but a futal attempt at damage control. Right or Wrong I am proud to be an American, We might have our faults but we are the best gig on the planet. "

" Hmm if it was a place mother said NOT to go to, surprised I never went there - lol. And quite frankly I am having trouble placing it - off State St maybe? I have no idea who this Kufs dude is or even how you watch him on TV. Sounds like no great cultural loss on my part. "

" The Shortstop was a dump. It was a hangout for drunks and reprobates. The only attraction for the younger generation was the sense of danger and squalor. It was also a frequent subject of gambling raids. It was the type of place your mother said not to go to. "

" Strange! west end and east end of Auburn incl town of Owasco lost power for a few minutes just prior to 11am - wonder what happened? "