" Everyone wonders and most likely blames God when someone so good, honorable has died, yet in the same day a cold-blooded murderer will live thru something tragic.
Its called being human--to always question WHY?

WHY-is a constant word we have and use daily since we learned to ask it at age 2.

In the prior hours of my dads death-he was babbling on and on about things in the bible, almost page for page-This man only went to church when someone died, a wedding, or a baptism. Yet he was speaking of being stoned for things he had done, it was as if he was "being judged" by himself or someone else?
There were moments he would laugh and moments he would cry. He said my mom and his family members, were right there (long passed).
I have a hospice neighbor-she states the same things she has witnessed thru the years in the days/hours before death, In religious and non-religious people.
WHY?
We say someone just peacefully went to sleep and never woke up, so we assume.
Did they really? Or was no one there to witness?

People speak of bright lights, seeing Jesus (Buddha,etc), seeing angels, WHY is one so quick to say they didn't?
People believe in past lives, having psychic abilities, have written their "charts" prior to birth, etc.,WHY do some think they don't?
WHY---lives on everyday!

I personally do not believe we just end our existence-for I have experienced way too many incidents that lead me think otherwise.
Why does it seem that "the good die young and the bad live forever"
I honestly don't know--maybe when I die I will have many more answers-
I have the "faith" I will have more answers!





"

" two cents, not 20 dollars! not a forum, cayuga FORUM is a forum! "

" Karl, very sorry for your friend's recent loss.

If there's one important thing I have learned about grieving, it is that it is different for every person. What would slide off one person's back cuts another deeply. There is no magic formula for grieving, no set pattern we can call normal and expect to go through all the steps in the same order, no timetable by which one "should" be "over it." The very best thing a friend can do when someone about whom you care is grieving is to be kind and supportive and make sure they do not feel bad about their own feelings. Whatever they are feeling, it's what's right for that person. Don't let them feel bad if they are "stuck" in any particular "stage" -- maybe that person needs more time to process that part. Don't be thinking they "should" be over it in x number of months.

Who are we to judge? If we care about someone, we'll support the person through his/her hard times.

Gator -- right you are. Even those of us against the war can appreciate bravery and doing the right thing in a very wrong situation. The young lady is a very fine example and deserves the honors. "

" Karl, Cancel your subscription to the Citizen if what is in there is a waste of your money? Its pretty simple dude "

" I don't doubt anger wells up in people at some times during their lives, but it should not fester and turn into hate or resentment.

We should not second guess God, it is a form of idolatry, worshipping ourselves as our own god. It is covered in the 1st commandment. Some folks see commandments as oppressive rather than liberating. "

" Is this amazing or what. I figured since we have pretty much killed the religion thing what they hey. As you sit and blame the school or whomever for the drop out rate in Auburn I thoughr I'd remind you of what other 19 year-olds are doing. WHETHER YOU BELIEVE IN THE WAR OR NOT THIS IS ONE AAMAZING LADY, HEL! WHE'S ONE AMAZING 19 YEAR OLD! I REALLY (and I do mean really) don't care what you may think of the war, I was just so in awe that this young lady (and many like her, men included) have such courage. And what is just as amazing is that there are so many like her that are willing to ensure we can sit and debate whatever we please since we live in a free Country. Afghanistan - A 19-year-old medic from Texas will become the first woman in Afghanistan and only the second female soldier since World War II to receive the Silver Star, the nation's third-highest medal for valor.
"

" Farmer's Gal, I will respond to you as I always enjoy your wisdom and moderation.
I will suppose that you are correct in your summation of the situation here, in reference to Mr Fearon and his words being "news"--however dubious I think the value. I suppose I should concede that fact.
I have to be honest however, when I say that I think that the eulogy was inappropriate for public forum--if it comforted the family, it would have done that in Church, and in private. Heck, they could have printed it up and sent it out to the guests on the Funeral Home guest list. But to put it in the paper--for MY money--is just a promotion of the myths of Religion.
Look, if you REALLY read it, it was really HARDLY about Mr Netti AT ALL--it was MORE about Mr Fearon's OWN perceptions of the "value" of what made Mr Netti a good man--that he allegedly exhibited all these rather enigmatic and unclearly-elucidated aspects of being a good human being WHICH HE PRESUMES WERE BECAUSE OF "GOD" AND RELIGION! I mean, I would have liked to hear WHY and WHAT Mr Netti did, said, or left in legacy stated in plain terms instead of making him out to be "good" simply because he was religious. That just reinforces the popular and religiously-propagated myth that in order to be a good upstanding man one needs to believe in God and especially, Christianity.
My opinion is further informed by a dear and close person to me who recently lost a very close family member--of which I shall not say much more--but suffice to say this person was very religious at the beginning of the dying process and I watched as their religious hope and pretensions faded painfully away, and the turmoil it caused within them as well. When we sat through the funeral mass, I could just see the anger welling up in them at all the empty platitudes being offered by the priest, and at all the assurances and mindless recitations of "God's mercy"! What a crock! I thought, "You know, why do we as a society just keep repeating these patently silly and deceptive falsehoods?" Do they REALLY help people deal? If God were so merciful and All-powerful, wouldn't you think he would "reserve" the "best deaths" (in sleep) for the most religious and exemplary Christians? Do you see the point? Uncomfortable questions to be sure, but should we really just keep promoting this silliness?
I am convinced even more so than after my OWN experiences that the whole "treatment" given by Religion concerning Death is emotionally unhealthy and damaging, and actually cause more conflict and prolonged suffering, rather than just learning to accept a natural, final "end" to a life. "

" death is a part of life no matter what religion anyone is. we all choose to become basket cases or not when a loved one dies. Life happens. God teaches us to move forward with love rather than regret. "

" [Give it up, Steve -- it most certainly IS a forum -- you need only scroll down through the many lengthy comments to see the proof of the fact. Most modern newspapers have forums, and The Citizen is no exception. Further, the quality of exchanges here have greatly improved in recent months from the barbed one-liners doing nothing more than sniping at each other. Today we are seeing deep-down disagreement -- but it's mostly pretty civil all the same.]

*****

Karl, cm, Gator, et al: I had another thought on the subject:

Imagine what you would think of a Christian group who went to Afghanistan to help (Muslim) victims of an earthquake, or a Jewish group who went to (say, Buddhist) Asia after a Tsunami -- if they were using those disasters as "opportunities" to proselytize the poor people in such a time that would be reprehensible. They should go into such a situation with a view to doing kindness and helping people who are trying to recover from a catastrophe -- it is no time to be trying to convert them -- it would be callous and lacking not only in respect, but in compassion.
They should be trying to be examples of the good in their respective religions, not salespeople, not at a time like that.

That situation is analogous to this current one, only a personal level.

I am sure this sort of thing has happened at times in history, but do you really want to be that kind of person? I just find that hard to believe.

Karl, you give us some insight into how you personally came to hold the views you do, and it helps us understand where you are coming from. It's brave to share such personal things, and I'll treat your revelations with respect, though I am sure you know you risk attacks when you share personal things here.

I don't think there is anything "wrong" with the way you responded to your personal circumstances. I might well have had similar feelings myself (except I was raised without any faith to lose). But here's where you could step outside all that and consider that another person, some other different person, in the very same circumstances as yours could react differently, and for very different reasons find their faith strengthened. Neither person is right or wrong, they are just different people with different ways. The trick is for each of these people to learn to respect the other's ways without expecting the other to feel and behave as they have.

Now, let's see if I can bring it back around to the less personal part of the discussion -- whether or not George Fearon's eulogy for Steve Netti belonged in the paper.

The newspaper is not "The State," so they have no obligation to stick to that separation thing.

They may or may not make claims of objectivity, but the reality is that every newspaper has some biases, and through their editorial pages, they even take positions, and sometimes even endorse political candidates. An honest paper will try to be upfront about their biases.

Knowing that Mr. Netti was well-regarded and even loved in the community, the paper chose to print a eulogy given by his friend, with the permission of the family. Insofar as they were reprinting what Mr. Fearon said, it's reporting the news. There were surely people who cared about Mr. Netti who lived far away and could not attend the service, or they may be people who have opinions about Mr. Fearon who would want to know what HE said. (Mr. Fearon is a local politician and public figure, after all, and has been judged more than once by readers right here in this forum before). I cannot see where printing a portion of the eulogy in the paper was anything out of line.

Those words may have riled you up, but I'd be willing to bet (and I don't gamble) that those words WERE a comfort to many among his family and friends -- why would you want to take that comfort away from them at this time? Even if you think them misguided, leave them to grieve as they will, take comfort where they may, and understand life in their own way -- that is the very most fundamental core of freedom for every person. "

" Karl - I wouldn't ask for more.

Farmer Gal - I sure hope you have someone there to pull you off the ceiling. I'm sure my atrocious spelling had you cringing!! "

" Wow for all you gramma folks please excuse my brainfreeze. I simply could not spell choice!!! "

" I understand your position, Gator, and respect your feelings on the issue. I will consider that in the future. "

" Karl - The eulogy was simply one man consoling a family in their grief, nothing more, nothing less. As for the paper printing it I can only say I have a choose to either read it or not. I simply found your choose of voicing your opinion following the eulogy was inappropriate. If you chose to be an atheist that is your freedom and I for one have no intentions of trying to squelch that freedom but I would ask you do the same for me. "

" Gator, I did not become an atheist because of my experiences with my Grandfather. That was "just another brick in the wall" so to speak.
I also don't care to "preach"--but if somebody doesn't say this stuff, no one will. If anyone's "preaching", it's the writer of the eulogy which started this whole thing!
And also, though I don't agree 100% with Murray, HIS heart is in the right place as well. He is passionate about what he believes, and even though it's quite the opposite of what I believe, I applaud his "fire" and conviction. "

" Karl - Why you became an athiest is of no interest to me as we have all been through the loss of a loved one and maintained our belief so that is neither here nor there. What I find amuzing is that you do not even see that you are simply the atheist version of Murray Lynch. I am happy to have God to believe in, especially when times are hard but if you don't need God fine by me. Just stop the preaching!!! "

" I am sorry your parents never took the time to explain death as a fact of life no matter your religion.

I have not ever been a parent of replacing the goldfish with another that "looks" like the dead one behind a childs back. Death is inevitable.
It is far better for the child to have their cry, their funeral, and buriel.
I have always encouraged friends to let their children go to "wakes" while explaining the process and let them say their final goodbyes.
My daughter remembers at age 4 she placed pennies in papa's hand to take with him-for he always gave her pennies when he saw her-RICHES in her eyes!
I am not overly religious BUT God, prayer, and mostly faith is within me.
Along with morals and values, that were taught to me by everyone I came into contact with throughout my life!

I will stand by my statement-you crossed the line and were totally disrepectful. "

" Cm, Hillbilly, and Farmer's Gal--this discussion has turned from the valid point of a newspaper printing a highly personal, emotional, and overtly proselyting Religious letter into a screed now against the town atheist.
cm's charge of "a predator's mind" is just so emotionally wrought with illusory projection that it literally made me chuckle. As if I really started out with a hidden agenda to promote Atheism to these grieving kids. Puhleeeeze! If you believe that, cm, there ain't NUTHIN I'm gonna say to convince you other wise, so hate away, honey.
I remember as a young child feeling EXACTLY the same feelings of doubt about my own grandfather's very protracted and painful death from illness, and for years afterward wondered why "God" didn't save him, as he was a profoundly pious man who was a hero to me--stoic, quiet, very outwardly religious, and a model of humility. Now, when he died, I found a tiny "stash" of two Playboy books under the newspaper lining of the cardboard box that he kept near his favorite chair as a garbage bin, and I remember thinking with absolute certainty for YEARS "Well, I see it now: THAT'S WHY God killed him so slowly and horribly!"
I remained Catholic--even ardently so--for some 20 years afterward, and eventually reconciled that silly childhood misunderstanding, but for years it tormented me with confusing, contradictory thoughts about a "merciful, saving" God, and I long pondered on how "He" could be so cruel.
The bottom line--if someone had just explained to me that "God" had nothing to do with grandpa's Playboys or death, and that death and disease is natural on one hand, and preventable to an extent by healthier living, I wouldn't have wasted do many sleepless nights "fearing God" and praying for nothing, for forgiveness for Grandpa, whom I believe now is simply "the dust from which he came".
If it sounds like I was "angry with God" don't be so hasty to believe that; I was more angry at the people who led me to believe such silly nonsense in the first place, and when I talk about what the children of Mr Netti might be experiencing now in their tortured grief, it's because I'm speaking from personal experience.
I find it profoundly ridiculous and outright pathetically contemptible that ANYONE could think, much less say, that God "saves" ANYONE by finally "taking them home" i.e., letting them finally die. I mean, really--thnk on that for a moment how utterly RIDICULOUS a contention that is!!! The fact is that you're just repeating what you were told--no matter how ridiculous and illogical it might be--because the TRUTH is that there's no acceptable answer to the question of why a "loving, merciful" God would allow such things to occur in the first place. And so we board the revolving carousel of religious inanity once more.
I will admit however, that THIS kind of conversation was NOT one that I intended to have. But the point is still valid; that the Citizen's role in printing glowingly euphemistic myth-building propaganda for the Church and Christianity does very little for the memory of any person on whose behalf it is mistakenly generated. I don't expect my opinion on this shall ever be "popular". "

" Wow the beat goes on. Turf wars. What a joke. It doesn't take a PHD to realize you have to do "bills before frills". "

" Its not a FORUM ! "

" karl wrote:
it's the perfect time to prod someone to free themselves from such soporifics. "

Pretty sad, when your atheistic self and those like you-feel the need to "free" children of their God when they are deeply sadden and vulnerable.
You can't get adults to join your click, so you pray on the small children?

Ideals of such sort is how a "predators" mind works.

Is this the kind of people anyone would want around their children? Passing themselves off as music teachers, humanitarians, and wanting a "better" society? NOT!!!!!
Those kinds of actions sickens me!

Do you honestly think that your total lack of disrespect and ideals of "praying on children" have made your parents, family, friends, girlfriend proud?


"

" AMEN, fg! "

" Personally, I am glad to see not just a few but quite a lot of people writing more in-depth on issues facing the community and our world. This forum is really starting to have some substance. See ya, "me!"

Karl, I usually respect what you have to say, but this time, I think you are out of line. I am not the only non-religious person here to say that to you. Compassion for a family in their time of loss takes precedence over all the rest of the arguments, no matter how misguided you may personally feel they are.

This is where YOUR own beliefs are tested -- if you want others to tolerate your right to not believe, then you must be willing to tolerate the rights of those who DO believe. Debate it when you feel ills are being done by organized religion, by all means, but NOT in a space where family members will be looking in their time of grieving.

At this point, it is totally irrelevant if you (or I) don't think the person was "saved" -- the belief that he has been saved brings great comfort to those of faith at times like this. (And surely we can't deny the man is now saved from the pain and suffering he had during the last months of his life).

True enough, it sometimes happens that a time like this is a test for a person's faith, and sometimes people lose their faith -- but that is something intensely personal and painful and no one should be pushing them one way or the other, not at a time like this. To be opportunistically using the death of a loved one as a lever to try to deliberately turn people from their faith, as you say you think is the thing to do, is just callous and cruel.

Faith is something each person has to find or not inside him- or herself. It is not for you or me to steer. Have more tolerance and compassion and hold your arguments for later, when a decent time has passed, and for a space where the children of the family or even adults in deep pain are not likely to be looking. "

" Karl, you made the statements "God didn't save him, did he? Something to think about maybe?" Well a person of faith will look at it as, Yes, God did save him. By his passing he was taken to Heaven and he no longer suffers the pain of cancer. Now I'm not big on religion for myself either. But, your view of trying to destroy religion I feel goes against what this country was based on. In this country we all have the right to practice our choice of religious faith or lack of it in your case. And yes there are times to state your opinion of religion and other times you should not out of respect to other people. However, since you are a secular progressive who cares only about yourself, I doubt you will understand this. So have a good day Karl and may God NOT bless you, because hey you don't believe. "

" If the entire cost of putting in the turf is paid by donations with no cost being passed on to the voter, to include future replacement of the turf. Then I say go for it. However, it must be understood that any initial and future cost will NOT be covered by the tax payer or as part of the school budget. Auburn needs to start a Sports Boosters Club that will raise money for future costs of the stadium. If this is not done, then play on grass. "

" The turf issue should be the lowest of priorities, but it's getting the highest treatment by the school board. I just can't believe that with all that is REALLY needed for the schools, that this issue is getting all the attention. Someone mentioned it in a previous post, that a fast talking sales force has turned someone's head, and is now becoming a crusade for school districts. The turf sales people sold all they could to the NFL, so now they have to generate new sales to stay afloat. "

" cm, God didn't save him, did he? Something to think about maybe?
In fact, I wouldn't be at all surprised if one or more of them kids lost their Religion entirely. If what you're saying about a long, dragged-out illness is true, then I think that kinda puts to bed the myth of a "merciful God", don't you? Wouldn't people be better off to be disabused of such nonsense?
Sorry, cm, but I don't think that holding a non-religious point of view should be concealed or hidden during times like this--if anything, it's the perfect time to prod someone to free themselves from such soporifics. "

" Cherry Love Duncan? For What?..you got to be kidding! "

" This turf debate will go on forever-simply because the board keeps putting it to a vote and can't accept the voters answer-NO.
I agree the town needs alot of improving-but right now when money is tight and prices keep rising TURF is not an essential.
Schools are barely getting by after the cuts done to programs, teachers, and supplies. Most schools themselves are in need of repairs-and lets not even mention the busses!
How can a board justify 3-4 million on turf , lights, sound equipment, and concession stand when local schools don't even have enough english, math, social studies, or science books?

Why are the teachers thoughts?
...maybe this paper should ask more than 2 or 3 of them! "

" Karl you simply cant leave well enough alone in an area that you crossed the line!
Steve's eulogy was printed in RESPECT for his wife and children during a time they have suffered a terrible, long, dragged out, suffering, cancerous death.
HE and his family deeply believe in GOD and their religion.
For you to post a "bottle-baby rant" where his children will MOST LIKELY see, is totally disrespectful.
It ranks up there with tipping headstones and protesting at a soldiers funeral !!

My mother died very young leaving a 6 and 8 yr old--I can very much relate to what those young children are going thru. It is hard enough for adults to answer the tough daily questions like heaven/angels/GOD/caskets/calling hours/grave/cemetery/when will daddy be back/who will play ball with me/who will mow the lawn/who will fix things/DEATH ?forever??----

just when you think you have them calmed for a minute some idiot adult throws in their "two cents" to make you out as a liar as to your beliefs!

There is a time and a place--that site was NOT the time or the place for your anti-GOD BS especially when it involved children who's hearts are deeply hurting right now!


"

" War to cost $5. trillion.

Google Joseph Stiglitz ( a republican, BTW )

"

" Ok, then "me"...have a good one...
"

" Wow. This two-cents column has turned into nothing but a few individuals voicing their LONG-WINDED opinions. Each trying to proove to themselves that they are smarter than the next person. I don't think I will be checking the two-cents column anymore. No wonder they took it out of the paper. "

" Longboard...your argument is totally full of holes. If "every other school district & college", as you put it is putting in turf, who's going to rent it out?? Nobody!! Do you really think that money made from field rental is enough to sneeze at?? Do you really think that it's going to be rolled into a mutual fund?? Please wake up. Ain't happining. Barely pizza money. And who's going to use it in Dec, Jan, Feb?? Nobody!! I can see where you got your facts from....your back pocket. And you say there's no maintence?? How about total replacement every few years?? How often you have to do the with grass?? NEVER!!! All your argument is, is a big pie in the sky painting!! So supposing the turf does get put in - and then the time comes along when it needs to be replaced - it's put up for a vote, and gets voted down because we didn't want it in the first place. So now what? Another fundraiser?? Good luck. You're gonna need it. "

" Karl
What I found inappropriate is where you chose to voice your opinion. Your personal religious beliefs are of no interest to me but if you'd like to use this forum to argue with Murray or anyone else that's your prerogative. If I don[t like what you write I simply won't read it. "

" If you want to talk about New England school economics then let's talk about proposition 2 1/2. Before prop 2 1/2 Massachusetts was called Taxachusetts and had the largest state tax burden in the country. A citizen based petition was passed that limited tax increases to 2 1/2% a year. The schools were hard hit with this tax limitation. If the people wanted field turf they would not even consider the school paying for this. They would raise funds publicly and canvass businesses for donations and pay for it themselves. Athletics have no budgetary support except for transportation. The sports pay for themselves with user fees levied on the athletes. Some athletes pay as much as $1,000 for the more expensive sports as football and hockey. The state is now in the lower half ranking of taxed states and the education budget has not put a priority on sports or fields. Those who support these things raise the money to pay for them publicly. If you want turf then raise the funds to pay for them. "

" Longwinded, you don't live in the auburn area anymore - there are no such groups that you mentioned, in auburn that will rent out the space. Take the afforementioned chill pill and enjoy your day! Lastly, we are glad you don't live here anymore, too! LOL! "

" nature lover, I know this is gall to you, but you said it all and I cannot disagree. I too was a jock, but also a very good student, and can appreciate the finer points. See, when something touches your heart, you have as lengthy a post as ever I wrote!

BTW, longboard, I have graduated from Cornell (my first MA, among other degrees), and the only school where I didn't get accepted in my life was Princeton. The reason? I called up and asked what was the most important part of my application. I was told "It's WHO writes your letter of recommendation." Period dot. It's WHO you know, beyond how well you perform. Lucky for me, the husband of an undergrad prof taught at Cornell and wanted me there, but there are lots of super-intelligent people who don't "know the right people" who never get the chance. Personally, I don't think that is right. Once I got to Cornell, it was a *cakewalk* compared to my undergrad at Wells, at least in terms of the work. So I keep that in mind -- at Wells, we were encouraged in athletes, but never athletics over academics. That background has stood me in good stead down the years.

Works the same for turf -- Auburn has too many academic problems to be wasting money on artificial turf. Take care of the basics before asking the public to fund the attractive extras, esp. in a community where money is tight for many families.

But, longboard, I agree on one thing -- it wasn't very cool calling athletes "neanderthals" -- I've known way too many intelligent athletes for that, and I know there are kids whose only hope to rise above the circumstances under which they were born were via athletics. Athletics can be almost a religion in its own right -- I know that the values I learned under a few really good coaches made a huge difference in my life and helped me be a better person. Thing is, I didn't need turf or fiscal extras to learn those life-critical lessons, just a d*maned good coach who cared about people reaching their own best potential.

Karl, you know very well I have no interest in religion myself, and was raised in a household where organized religion was intensely disparaged. Yet I can respect others' feelings when it comes to things like loss of a loved one. I don't want to see religion and state mixing, but if the paper wants to reprint George Fearon's very religious eulogy for Steve Netti, I don't see where it hurts you or me. Let them grieve as they will, even if it comes out in public. Save your irritation for organized religion for where it is truly out of line. Seriously, it doesn't hurt you or me that they printed those lines. Let them have their faith and the comfort it gives them. "

" Wow Longboard obviously u did not take my advise on the chill pill. Now u r just being beligerent which I can c by your past postings is your nature. Call me pathetic, a bafoon, whatever!! It really doesnt matter because you are an entitled soul and u obviously didn't do much in the line of human struggle therefore you have zero depth. I do not live in the past but my past made me what I am. Perhaps the permeance of the pee stank from Shortstop has clouded your narrow intelligence level even further because according to me and the MORE nay sayers of artificial turf than ya sayers dont think that turf is an "embrace of innovation and vision". That is a classic comedy line there bud!! And yes school is partially responsible for the way kids turn out - honestly why do they spend so many hours there if its not going to mold what they become? Come on man, to get so riled over artificial turf - have your BP checked will ya? "

" Sorry you disagree, Gator. It has nothing to do with "ego" It has to do with trying to stop the promotion of Religion and useless religious rituals which are time wasting and unproductive, ie, prayer.
Think about this--can you tell me one thing i that eulogy which told me ONE thing about Mr Netti? What he accomplished? An illuminating anecdote or story about what how he may have treated a fellow human being who needed help?
Bottom line--The writer USED Mr Netti's death to promote the writer's OWN INTERPRETATION of WHAT HE BELIEVED TO BE the role of Christianity in "making a good man". His eulogy is a promotion of religion, using Mr Netti's death to tell us all how he believes that following the rosary and praying and reading a SPECIFIC VERSION of th Bible means that a man is "good" or can be "better", in his view.
I have said NOTHING disparaging against Mr Netti or his family, so stop trying to land a low blow. If you don't see what I'm trying to point out, you are focusing too much on the fact that,--REGRETTABLY!--a good man has passed on. That fact however, does N-O-T entitle others to promote their religious views at the other's expense. "

" and nature lover, its people like you in the Auburn area that have that place set back in the stone ages: Narrow minded, ignorant bafoons who cant see 5 feet in front of them. You live in the past and are afraid to move forward while the rest of the world passes you by. And instead of doing something about it, you complain and make excuses about everything instead of seeing potential benefits in new ideas. I was sad to leave home, but god Im so glad I now live in a progressive environment filled with people that embrace innovation and vision. "

" youre kidding right? Kids doing poorly in school is the schools fault...hahahahaha! You know whose fault it is?? THE PARENTS!!!! Schools cant raise your kids 24-7-365! If kids are failing, what are the parents doing about it? Are they making sure their kids are going to school, doing their homework, studying...schools send out report cards right? They have parent/teacher meetings right? I know what my parents did to me when I didnt perform in school...on top of getting a work-over from my mom, my dad would then take away privlidges from me. Very simple. But you know what, now I know whats wrong with many people (like YOU) today...they want to blame everything on everyone (or anyone) else instead of looking in the mirror at themselves. Youre pathetic. "

" Finally stopped pouring out so one last comment to all the YA sayers of turf - take a chill pill, read these next few sentences, pause to digest then respond: tangible vs intangible. Only in America where people are buying houses they cant afford, trading up their vehicles b4 they are paid for would turf be an heated issue. Can we afford it? Who cares we DESERVE it dang it !! Children are resilient and turf really isnt going to change their lives dramatically one way or the other. Not in the too far past, we were offered EVERYthing u could imagine to broaden our minds. All a child had to do was say, yes, I think I would like to learn to play guitar or yes, I think I would like to take drivers ed, I would like to learn how to write poetry, debate class, what have you. Now children have to shuffle feet and wonder if their guardians can afford to pay for the transport or rental to attain these extra curriculars. MANY people in this area are not as well off you u think. U and I made it but dont forget options are not being offered by the current administrations and kids are falling thru the cracks. Taking that money and putting it back into programs to draw out that talent and desire in children is what is needed - not turf. Its an utterly ridiculous argument. "

" Karl your ego is quite amazing. The Netti family approve the printing of the eulogy, therefore I would venture to say what was said meant a lot to them. So it really has nothing to do with you, which is something you have a hard time dealing with. As I said before there was no excuse for your behavior. Why don't you have a bit more respect for the family and just stop commenting all together. Stick to this column where people are quite used to your rantings. "

" Congratulations Karl. You have definitely reached your all time low with your comments to Steve Netti's eulogy. As you so quickly tell others "If you don't like it don't read it". This is absolutely no excuse for such ignorance. "

" cm, I do not believe that the Citizen should be promoting Religion or prayer in the paper--printing a whole Hail Mary? Give me a break. Prayer is useless. How many amputees you know who've regrown an arm or leg?
My comment was not against the family or the children, and eulogies belong in Church, especially one so blatantly religious as that one. Besides, go back and read the second comment I will write there after this--it's a valid point! "

" Longboard, I am all for turf WHEN the academics of this area ie Auburn gets off the troubled list. The academics are appalling, kids are failing, drop out is high, holding up cab drivers, setting fire to houses. So SURE, I will vote yes for turf WHEN academics is brought up to snuff. When we went to school they supplied the instruments, the uniforms, there was chorus, art class, photography, pottery, Shakespeare, costumes for plays, etc. So CM is correct, if the administrations of today cant even afford FUEL (not even for a field trip), u tell us all about how the big busing in of that illustrious, God save the Queen RENTAL income is gonna rain on us. Ya, glad u like my neaderthal comment, thought it was classy too like the u defending illegal gambling, pee stank dives and the so called world famous Mr Kufs. lmao, Hey Karl we did do entry motorcross (RIOT), snowmobiling you name it, the 70's ruled for going to school...and geez can u beleive we had nasty ol' grass? how did we survive? (HI M) "

" Brn in Brklyn - ritzy Boston?? this has nothing to do with Boston, again not thinking before speaking....typical. "

" Karl you need to have some lines drawn-to comment degradingly on the Steve Netti article about the missing Hail Mary is so immature and just plain evil.

We here all know you don't believe, but to his children --one being 6 yrs old-that do believe in GOD and that their father has gone to Heaven, How cruel of you to state otherwise in an area they are most likely to read!!
Talk about kicking someone when they are down!!! worst yet to children that have just lost their father!
totally shameful, disrepectful and utterly digusting behavior out of an adult!!!!!!!!!!!!!! "

" Pentagelli: Please explain to me why all that you cited can't be accomplished on a grass field? "

" If the district cannot transport the band from the high school to the field NOW for home games--how would it be useful to all?
If transportation is already a problem how would new turf solve those issues/fees?? "

" Answers to quesitons:

AndyB: Grass surfaces get chewed up quickly especially in our climate in the Northeast US. I played football @ AHS back in the day and after one rain game...just one, the field was DONE and rendered unusable for other teams. Maintenance crews would work on it daily to get it ready for a friday night game. And after the football season, the field was roped off as new seed has to be planted. Waste of time and money. now with Field Turf, no such issues!

for HILLTOP: Youd be suprised who would use the field. Not only for athletcis, but for concerts, ceremonies, marching bands, youth events, etc. (Ive even seen a drama club use a small field turf stadium by having an outdoor stage set up while they acted out Romeo & Juliet at night, it was actually very cool to watch). Anyone or any group who needs a wide open space that can seat hundreds of people. Holland Stadium is a perfect place for that, but with re-growing grass there they would be reluctant to allow people trouncing all over the field.

For Nature Lover: I coudnt agree with you more regarding Academics over Athletics - however do you have any idea of the stringent standards kids have today to get into top academic institutions or an institution of their choice? Not only do kids need excellent grades & test scores, but they need "extra ciriculars"...yes, places like Harvard, MIT, Yale, Brown, and even the SUNY schools require students with such a background...or you dont get in. Dont believe me, call the schools and ask yourself. Schools today want kids that bring several dynamics to the table - they want a well-rounded student that brings color and vibrance to the student body. So whether it be in sports, music, drama, community service, etc. Whatever your nitche is, these kids need the tools and adequate facilities to provide them with such an opportunity. Thus having a multi-functional facility can provide these students with a proper outlet to perform is in fact part of their EDUCATION. I myself used one of these facets to get into a good college on a scholarship (my avenue was athletics, eventhough I had an A average in all of my subjects in HS) which has now led me to a lucrative job & career. Isnt that what you want for your children? My sport paid 50% of my tuition...which was over $50,000 in 4 years. Not too shabby as far as im concerned. And dont be so quick to judge athletes (also known to you as Neanderthals - BTW, very classy). Its not all of our goals to be pro athletes. Most athletes realize that becoming a prois not a vital career choice. However sports can be a tool you can use to get financial grants and support from an institution that wants your services.

So in closing, to all of you nay-sayers here.....take a step back and think for a bit before speaking so harshly on the subject. There are plenty of benefits here. You have a beautiful facility in Holland Stadium thats used sparingly and is under-utilized....and thats the truth of the matter. "

" Well said, nature lover. A perfect summation of how I feel. It has nothing to do with being good at Sports or not. t has to do with what's important for our children's future.
An entry-to-mid level motocross track behind the school, right where the dumb soccer field is--now THAT I'd pay for and support. "

" I am convinced 110% that there is no more hateful type of person in the world than they whom hate "Liberals". That word alone is just a code word for every opinion, political party, and person with whom they disagree.
With that in mind, "Liberal" is the BEST thing that one could be.
Better a "Liberal" than a stuffy-headed, grumpy hater. "

" You don't need to be a jock to understand the artificial turf is only going to benefit the jocks. While the students use outdated text books, and there is not enough money to fund academic groups. Grass is so much easier to maintain, and easier to land on! What outside groups are really going to want to rent this space? We are talking Auburn, not ritzy Boston, where playing fields are hard to come by. You can't really compare NE to Auburn. Why did the school board take this issue out of the hands of the school district voters and make this decision themselves? "

" One the contrary Stevo. I excelled in sports AND academics. Way back when (lol) we had regular PE and we did ALL sports ranging from baseball and field hockey in the often cold and damp REAL grass. Cripes when it was track time, we didnt even have a fancy track yet! We did indian dodgeball (FAV!!) and remember the scooters and trampolines? ooh what fun - too much to list. BUT we excelled at a GREAT range of sports AND still aced our Regents exams all when high priced althletic devises werent even considered. And come on Pentangelli, LEMMINGS? too funny that u compare turf as education. So why dont you share some of your high school memories sans artificial turf? "

" Just recently Auburn, F-M, and Canandaigua have all voted down turf. As someone who has recently coached varsity athletics I can tell you that very, very few schools have it. The amount of money you can get renting out the turf feild is very limited in that the feild is almost constantly being used by the schools own boys/girls soccer, lacrosse, football, etc. teams of the various levels (varsity, JV, freshmen, modified) The superintendant of one local school that does have a turf field (Penn Yan), when pressed by a newspaper reporter acknowledged that the money that they did recieve for renting out the field was not being put aside to replace the field in a few years, rather in was just being put into the districts general fund. As a result it is likely they will have to put up another bond act to replace it in a few years. There is nothing wrong with grass, kids have been playing on in forever. "

" Nature ? Bet you were never any good at sports huh? "

" Academics over athletics!!! If SOOO many schools in the New England region are switching to artificial turf then what other local HS's and colleges will be left to pay this illustrious RENT! Looks to me like this artificial turf industry has quite the sales team that visits campus's tooting how the clouds will part and the harps will play if they will just get turf. All will be as it should be in the world. So what if we have thick necked Neanderthal type kids coming out of school whose biggest goal is to be a pro sports player wanting to make millions? not ! Crap on the chemistry lab, library fund, field trips, BOOKS for cryin out loud too. Crap on ALL of that when we could be SO blessed to have GOD's GREEN Artificial TURF. Do u hear that in the distance? look up.... "

" What's wrong with grass fields? They can be used in all weather by many different sports and groups already without having to replace it every 10 years. They can also be rented out just as much as artificial turf. "

" hilltop....soccer leagues, CCC, lacrosse, all the AHS field sports teams. When all the activities are on one field the overhead is reduced (not having to keep up many fields)
Once again, Auburn natives are placing the few dollars out of their pockets against the education of children...WAY TO GO LEMMINGS "

" Cherry, stop submitting those Two Cents lines pretending to be someone else supporting you, nobody is buying it. "

" I would like to know what local groups can actully use the turf field when the school is not using it (events ) that can happen or is it only school related groups only .I've heard that the community can use the field -just whay can they use it for???? "

" Unknown....yet every other school district and college in the country are converting their high maintenance, barely used grass field Stadiums to field-turf as they know the benefits of having this surface. Now they have a field that all of their students can use (athletes, marching bands, etc.) in any kind of weather, but a facility they can also RENT OUT to other local HS's, small Colleges, club / adult recreational leagues, concerts, etc. that need the use of such a place. Then those proceeds are rolled into mutual funds that can be used in the future to help maintain the facility, without having to dip back into the taxpayers pockets when more $$ is needed to fix / make improvements to the facility. So essentially, the field turf pays for itself. But I bet you researched this topic carefully enough to see this side of it. And no, im not making this stuff up. Schools (and even City-Owned Park Fields) throughout the New England region are doing this right now.....and are enjoying the benefits. They have a surface that requires virtually no maintenance yet being used 6-8hrs a day, 6-7 days a week @ $200.00 an hour (this is what my club pays the city where I live to use their field turf, and thats without their field lights....if we need lights, its $350.00 an hour) Do the math..... "

" Exactly, in 8-10 years that field will have to be replaced. And at that time it'll be even more expensive - & no state aid then. The people over in Fayettville - Manlius were smart enough to vote no because they knew what it meant. And by a large margin, too. Our school board KNOWS it's going to be defeated here, that's why they are separating it out from the rest of the budget, so they can get the rest of the necessary items through. It's a waste of time, and a waste of money. Can you imagine the powers that be, trying to talk people into spending MILLIONS of taxpayer's dollars, FOR A KIDS GAME???? Where are their priorities??? The people that are donating money are the people that can't take no for an answer!!! Get over it!! "