" Now that we are back to $24 posts.... I have read the posts regarding Welfare and it has all become much clearer to me. Thanks. I have a job. I don't have the time to post more than one SHORT comment per day. I wonder, how does Farmers Gal,and karl L get anything done during the day????? Fascinating! "

" I am hoping the "life less priveledged" line was not directed at me, FG. I have been working since I was 11 years old because I had to. I have eaten federal cheese and white rice for months on end because I had no money. I have had to sell ALL of my belongings just to pay for a room to let. I did not own my 1st car till I was in my 30's. My life experiences would probably run circles around most and I always kept my pride. However, I choose not to place my numerous personal experiences online here because I feel the public represented on this forum doesnt know me well enough for me to place all that crap out there just to justify my thoughts about how the system is truly abused by some people. I had to place my mother on medical welfare b4 she died and yes, it was terrible how they rake you thru the coals but the worker was a very thoughtful woman that made the whole state mandated qualifications go easier. And another item, I have no problem whatsoever with an attention span so I hope you dont have that affliction either. Webitor TY for booting the two cents! I c/n get on till now.... "

" I am working on getting two cents back online (actually, this post is meant to kick the comment section awake). "

" Stevedallas, I bet they don't!! "

" For those unfamiliar with Leo Strauss, he was of the opinion that people should be controlled by the elites. This was one of his nicer traits.

"

" Thanks, Karl, brew and AJ. I'm glad the system was there for you when you needed it, brew -- sometimes it is, but I've learned you can't count on it. Even when it is there, you still have to work to get through tough times. Good for you.

I didn't have a high standard of living (ha!) or a big mortgage (I rented) or fancy car (second hand older car). I had worked at a low-paying college in the region out of love for the place and lack of other opportunities. I lived with a stay-at-home dad (my ex) who couldn't find regular work in this area, certainly not any job that paid enough to put our kids in child care and pay for a second car. Our income left us hand-to-mouth for years, so there was no chance for savings on which to fall back.

That doesn't mean we weren't honest, decent, hard-working people, but it meant when we broke up, and each fell on hard times, there was no personal buffer for either of us. And then I was injured, and unable to work, and there was no safety net.

It is so obvious who here has never had the opportunity to develop character through living a life less privileged. (cm, I don't mean you; seeing your sister as you do, I can understand how you developed your view of the system, and only hope I can give you a wider view). "

" I used to have those arrogant attitudes about welfare when I was a younger man. Once in my life everything fell in on me. My car broke down, my landlord illegally evicted me, my wife left me and my son, I lost my job and I was 500 miles from home. I collected emergency food stamps, went to the food pantry for help and collected food baskets for the holidays and my son's Christmas came from a local fire dept program. It was a tough time but I got back on my feet and picked myself up again. I feel a huge sense of security that welfare was there and I am very grateful to a lot of people. I did meet those arrogant people in the welfare dept. but if they were too overbearing I just went elsewhere. I am a fierce defender of public welfare and I know that there are cheats but they end up in the crime section of the newspaper eventually and they are only a small % of welfare recipients. You arrogant republicans just haven't fallen down on your luck and needed help. "

" OOOOpssss.

Selling "fear"

Should have been "Promoting fear and selling "protection""

Sorry, my computer has been acting up today. "

" Karl, thanks for that comment to Dan. I was in the middle of making the same point when my puter crashed - saved me from having to re-type! My thoughts exactly!

Glad you had a chance to check out the video links. I've known for a long time that the war on "terror" is a scam of unfathomable proportions. Selling "fear" is one of the oldest tricks in the book. The video really nailed it, and pointed out numerous things I wasn't aware of. IMO, the only problem with the video was the treatment of Kissinger who is wanted for war crimes in several countries.

Look at the "window of vulnerability", the "missile gap", the "bomber gap", and the "tank gap".

All of the "fear inducing" propaganda to get the public to open their wallets to support a criminal "defense" establishment have been proven frauds, and the current situation is no different.

Now that we don't have the big bad Ruskies to blame, they had to invent something. IKE was so right in his farewell address about the need to be vigilant. Imagine what the world could be like were we not paying half our tax dollars into this madness.

"

" DAnW, what a contemptible, arrogant, proud and brainless comment that was against cm.
You know, I actually HOPE that YOU get down on your luck one day and NEED some help to get back on your feet again--when that day happens, please come back here and post your apology and your humble story of how that temporary help enabled you to get through the bad time and become self-sufficient again--instead of having to declare bankruptcy or losing your home or not being able to feed your kids.
You have the perspicacity of a gnat. What a jerk. "

" CM knows first hand how the game is played. Its sad but very true. I have more pride than to look for a hand out from the goverment "

" Yes, Cm, I agree with u also...I have seen more that benefit from the system as a vocation than not. And all the social programs seem to be laid at their feet. These so called taxpayers that have run into temporary setbacks is ridiculous because if they werent lulled into the misconception of being of a higher social class and had mortgages and cars that better suited their paycheck rather than their desires, perhaps they wouldnt have that setback. Any responsible person knows to save for bad times and/or conserve. I feel these programs are best utilized for the physically and mentally ill because there truly is no way they could possibly help themselves - but it seems the most deserving gets put on the back burner. And pregnancy d/n constitute a medical condition! A funny take on the concept of the "welfare" mentality taking over the world is portryaed in a comedy called Idiocracy. It could happen lol. "

" Well, the system sure didn't work for me, nor for my mom when I was a kid and my dad left and we were on and off assistance several times as she struggled to get us by. She was educated and hard-working, and didn't mind the job at Burger King if she could just get work -- but the system wasn't much help for her either.

I had worked my whole life, got a good education, and fell on hard times through no fault of my own. I spent a year unemployed with no jobs for which to even apply within a 3-hour radius, and temp agencies which refused to take my resume because I was "overqualified."

Then I was injured and disabled -- and there was NO safety net for me, the experienced and highly-qualified professional who'd worked her whole life. No disability, no unemployment, no welfare -- I did eventually get a couple months of food stamps, but that was it, and I had to go through months of hell, humiliations and abuse by nasty workers in government offices, and get individual help from my county legislator and a disabled persons' advocacy group just to be allowed to apply for help (the nasty woman wasn't going to let me even apply, after leaving me sit in my wheelchair for two hours, in pain and exhaustion because it was only a week or so after my accident and surgery, in a hot, stuffy, cramped, uncomfortable waiting room while she let me stew in worry only to tell me I couldn't even apply).

There may be people who figure out how to milk the system, but I would not assume it's a majority, that's for sure.

(And if that's too long for your attention span, don't read it) "

" yep cm you are so on the money , disgusting the way the system works we pay the way for the ones who choose not to work and they just keep going to comunity college so so they can stay on social services "

" let me tell you about a sis on the system right now..with 3 kids
she gets 500+per month cash,400+food stamps,her rent is totally paid by homesite (4br)--the last house the rent was lower than her homesites alloted amount, so they gave her the balance in a check!
She also gets $600 for a child on SSI.
Then she lets her G&E get to final notice (3months) and HEAP picks up the full tab-this is 2ce a yr.
The system also pays for her childcare while she works part-time,or goes to school/job-training, which they pay for..
If she gets in a tight spot-she gets free food & clothes & vouchers for shopping, free meals at holidays, free school supplies,free Xmas presents, etc.
To top it off she files income tax and get a return of no less than 5grand!!
This has been how it's been for the last 20yrs!
While I bust my butt and work!???
"

" AJ, I have to thank you for that BBC program on the web that you posted here a while back about Strauss and the neocons--utterly amazing and frightening!!!
How they manipulated evidence and used outright fabrications and lies in the 80's about the Soviet Union? My God--no wonder the CIA people called them "The Crazies"--sincerely deluded they were!
I just got a book about Leo Strauss--"know thine enemy", isn't that the FIRST "rule of war"? "

" Are you for real? "What most of these fools are forgetting is the fact that MOST people who need it ARE generally productive taxpayers who have run into temporary setbacks" I bet they represent less than 10% !!!! "

" Karl, the Straussians are a dangerous breed. The man was obviously deranged, and his followers equally so. I'm sure that the damage will never be undone in my lifetime. Even GB the 41st, to his credit, thought they were nuts! "

" FG, wouldn't it be great to see all these people who bemoan the welfare system as some sort of gravy train have to go on it, if only just for a month? I would give anything to see that. I think they'd realize how much better we need to do in taking care of those less fortunate.

What most of these fools are forgetting is the fact that most people who need it ARE generally productive taxpayers who have run into temporary setbacks and need a little help. "

" So whose fault is it that you are on Welfare? Whose fault is it that you dropped out of school because you were pregnant. Whose fault is it that you have one child after another with no means to support them. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go back to school, get an education, and work like the rest of us. "

" cm, you are mistaken. I tried to apply for assistance when I needed it, and though in the end it never went through, I went through the whole application process and most of the 45 day waiting period during which time you are required to live on thin air -- you get no benefits and can earn no money. (If you had savings, you wouldn't be applying for welfare!)

I had to attend 4 mandatory meetings, and was excused from a fifth meeting to discuss the mandatory unpaid job that came with welfare only because I was disabled at the time.

At that level, "job training" was not optional -- even in the meetings I did attend, we had to hear about the right way to dress to apply for a job, how to behave in an interview, what would be expected in terms of attendance, etc. Everyone else had to go, and I had to provide a doctor's written proof that I was disabled to be excused. "

" "AJ" CA's system is nothing like NY's!
In NY it is NOT a loan, there is NO community service, and job training is available IF you want it-but not because they want you to move off the system. Basically, if you pop out kids you can stay on it forever!
For most-it is a way of life-the lazy way. "

" atleast the dogs are leashed and NOT running wild..last I knew there was sidewalk on each side of the street-maybe you might want to choose to walk on the other side? "

" Thanks, AJ, right you are!

No, welfare is not a loan here in NYS, but everything else you say about being on public assistance is true, and more.

In 2003, welfare benefits for one person were $315 a month plus about $115 in food stamps. That's $430 a MONTH for absolutely everything. If you lift a finger to work to try to supplement that inadequate amount enough to meet basic needs, they reduce your benefits accordingly. I had a 1BR cheap in the boonies for $350 a month; forget heat, electric, car insurance, gas, phone or any other basic needs.

And that's without telling how nasty and condescending the people on the other side of the desk are when they know they have power over you.

Whoever wrote that "Auburn and Cayuga County are great if you're on welfare" has never BEEN on welfare. "

" Conservative or liberal--they all have their stones to throw, they all have skeletons in their closets, they all have hidden agendas!
We can go back thru the years and find fault with 1 or many things with each president/congressman/senator/governor/
mayors..
We also may find something good they did too. "

" BTW> EVERY politician plagiarizes. BAR NONE. EVERY ONE, PERIOD! "

" "When is The Citizen going to have another conservative column writer?"???
HOPEFULLY NEVER!!!!!
With apologies to jrmorgansr, I think that the era of Conservatism is over--and not a moment too soon for the country. In saying that, I'm not saying that Conservatives don't have a right to exist, but what has Conservatism accomplished for the country in the last horrible eight years?
NOTHING!
Nothing but bad, that is. Isn't it funny how the Conservatives set out to from a semi-permanent ruel in the givernment and instead have succeeded only in Americans almost overwhelmingly rejecting almost everything they stand for?
Worst of all are the Leo Strauss followers; the "neo-cons". Deception and deceit is a de facto policy tool of that cabal, and it should be outlawed in the same way as the Nazi party was outlawed after WWII in Germany, for the damage and danger it poses to the nation and indeed, the world.
Isn't it both pathetic and hilarious how Mike Shucks-abee is desperately treading water, trying to stay in the race, on the idea that if he doesn't stick it out "nobody's going to be talking about these issues"--abortion, the Marriage Amendment, etc--all the bigoted, divisive religious crap that has been used to divide and distract the voters for the last eight years.
Well I say "GOOD RIDDANCE!"!!!
The Great Conservatism Experiment is over--and it has been a failure. Instead of giving the Conservatives another soapbox to climb upon and from which to start spreading more divisiveness (which you know they will do, for four more nauseating years!) let's hear only more moderate voices, and people who embrace a change from what Conservatism has tried to engender. "

" CJ, of course, the taxpayer always pays the freight - nothing is free.

If you really want to deal with welfare freeloaders and save your tax dollars, look at corporate America - the largesse afforded them is staggering. And as you noted, the TAXPAYER pays the freight..

Truth of the matter is, unless you're a single mother with kids, welfare recipients do not exactly get a free ride forever, contrary to what you may think, and it is not exactly something which any self-respecting person would even want to be on - the benefits are bare bones. If NY is anything like CA, recipients have to be registered to work and must do community service, complete jog training, and repay the LOAN. Yes, it IS a loan, at least as I said in CA.

And under Clinton's program, the length of time a person could receive welfare was drastically cut - the effects of which we still do not know. "

" AJ, the point is the TAXPAYER pays the freight. Welfare is ok but is not supposed to be a vocation. I never told people to drop out of school, never learn a trade, depend on the government. Some people on welfare really deserve it while many are just too lazy to work. "

" I'm sure welfare here is a real gravy train.

You better hope your job is secure and that you never have to find out for yourself what the reality is. "

" Heaven forbid you ask the neighbors to shorten the leash to the point that the dog can't crap on the sidewalk.

If that doesn't work, walk up to the pooh with a flat-bottomed shovel (transfer shovel) and scoop it up. Then make like a lacrosse player and fling it for all you are worth at the house. "