" As for Obama, I am not using religion as an excuse to not vote for him. I am using instinct and simple observation.
Everyone says follow your "gut". We teach our children to speak up if something doesn't sound right, look right, or feel right.
We teach our children to not follow gangs, not do drugs, don't drink n drive, not be friends/"hang" with bad people/influences.
Those that know me personally can vow that I am a great judge of character-and it takes me 5 minutes!
If I have decided mentally I don't like you in the first minute, I am nice to try a bit longer. After 5, you are either a person I will continue to have contact with or NOT!
Next, LIARS! I have dealt with so many of them -they are the easiest to read-especially when they throw in the ERR-UHH's! They simply cannot think fast enough!
Finally,my hero Judge Judy! Don't pee on me and tell me it's raining!

If Obamas influences for the past 20 yrs and present, in his personal life, are to be proud of then he/they should stand tall-they are not, they are hiding in the woodwork.
I despise termites! They eat from the inside, just when you least expect it,your foundation collapses!
"

" I am not sold on the health care, even if it is per-income ratio. Just because I am healthy and working today, doesn't mean I will be tomorrow. Will the pay by income ratio/sliding scale be based weekly/monthly/yearly? Then what "government" thinks I can afford is much different than what I "know" I can afford. Such as, maybe I have 6 months to live and I choose to not have meds or doctors. So I don't want to pay for something automatically taken out of my check because I feel like bungy-jumping instead!
Many of us have already lost our pick of doctors thru HMO's/PPO's..a Medicaid writer wrote in last week about not having doctors in Auburn to treat "

" The war on terror is NOT a fraud. Maybe some the reasons we BOMBed Iraq could be> We will honestly never know the truth. Are you trying to tell me that the video of a man being beheaded was a fraud? or the many bodies found beheaded were frauds?
I have very close friends who are in the Army serving there right now--their daily lives seeing this is NOT FRAUD!
In watching the debates, Hillary was honest about the pullout issue-there truly cannot be a SET timetable, there are too many variables to put forth first for the safety of our people & safety of the innocent staying behind. If you caught her statement after that saying when the new President gets into office they will get more info as to whats REALLY going on. More classified info that is! She atleast admits not knowing all the facts an EXACT DATE is not humanly possibly at this time!

"

" Hmm, what's wrong with being secular? Or progressive? Is that supposed to be an insult? I'd use "independent" rather than "progressive" but whatever.

AJ, you and I are on exactly the same page. (Except that I also have the Giants victory parade playing in the background while I work). "

" Hillbilly, you go ahead and continue to watch Fox if you want to remain ignorant.

As for those "secular progressive" channels, are you referring to Link TV or Free Speech TV? Watch those and you may learn something you don't know.

Surely as all hell you can't be referring to Msnbc, ABC, NBC, or CBS, which are nothing more than corporate and government propagandists.

FG, good points about the health care program. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised for a second if it was written entirely by the health care/insurance/pharmaceutical industries for their benefit and not ours.

I personally do not trust Hillary one bit as she seems too deeply into the pockets of big business. I do not trust Barack either for that matter, but I'll hold my nose and vote for him anyway now that Kucinich and Edwards are out. "

" Please watch these two videos and then we can continue the discussion.

The Power of Nightmares - part 1 of 3

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=881321004838285177


Operation Gladio 1 of 3

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4900756773650110959


You'll find links to the other two versions of each there.

The war on terror is a fraud, pure and simple, and muslims are being scapegoated. Do everyone a favor and don't buy into all the BS the government is dishing out. "

" Sorry Karl I think CM is right. And yes I will watch FOX news. The one channel that isn't owned by the secular progressives. All the others as you like to say are just Sheep following their leader. Also, wasn't it Hillary's campaign that pointed out the "Hussein" name thing right along with hinting to his early drug use? This was reported on NBC nightly news. As for his Church and Pastor, that is true too. I heard that on CNN, oop's can't blame Fox for these. So what change is Barack talking about? Pulling the troops from Iraq (Hillary is too). Let's look at history, since WWII the USA has been in Germany and we are still there. If we pull out of Iraq all the mothers of 5 year olds will be watching them go to war in about 15 years. To stop what Barack (or Hillary) pulls out of. If we stay now the void a pull out will create will not occur and the situation will improve. It has already started. Why can I say this because the Sheep's news channels are not reporting on Iraq and the war. Because the U.S. is NOT loosing as some Congressmen and Senators would want you to believe. So Karl, I will not be voting for the Far left or the Far Right I will be voting for McCain. He's more in the center where most of America is today. Is he perfect all the time? No. But, in my opinion he has a better grasp on the issue than anyone else in the race. "

" karl I must be racist? hahaha
I am fan of Tony Dungy, love Montel, fav childhood stories were of Harriet Tubman-racist pleeeeeeease!
Just because I look deeper into info, such as who people "hang" with,since I believe we are products of our environment-you yell racist?

Do You NOT have characters, qualities, traits, traditions from your parents and those you surround yourself with?
Why do you hang with "musical oriented people? For your love of music?
Why do you debate conservatives? For your beliefs of liberals?

Do you "hang with" convicts, rapists, child molesters, murderers?
NO-WHY? You are a product of your environment which doesn't include that kind of activity/persons in your lifestyle!
Have you held a guitar in your hand for 20 Yrs? WHY? your love of music must be strong! If not your guitar would be in a case buried in the closet!

How strong is Obama's love of church, church mottos, and church icons?
PS....
I have nephews & neices that I love that are half black & half white! "

" Steve -- I don't disagree. They are all chanting change because their spinmeisters tell them that's what the people want to hear, not because they have any particular plan for change, much less one which would actually be a change for the better. I agree with cm when she says she is not impressed (positively) with any of the candidates remaining in the race - nor am I.

I could care less if a candidate "talks like a leader" -- I wish I could have a candidate who weren't owned by corporate and specials interests whose interests are so contrary to my own.

I can't help being suspicious of a health care plan, no matter how good it looks on paper, put forth by a woman who is taking huge contributions from the pharmaceutical industry. Not when I've seen long-tested European medicines held up at our borders by the FDA because it would cut into the business of the pharmaceuticals -- not because they wouldn't help thousands of unhealthy Americans in a safe way.

(Yet Viagra got in with something like only 2 months testing -- shows where the priorities are. All you have to do is turn on a TV to see how marketable THAT product is, and that's all the drug companies care about.)

cm -- I agree that there are anti-white racists. Working in academia, you are very aware of such things, and I've never cared a lick if someone decided to call me names for speaking out against prejudices even when it's "reverse racism."

However, it matters not a whit to me if Obama was raised Muslim or Hindu or whatever, (or if actually, he just briefly attended a Muslim school while his family was living abroad), or if he is Christian now or Jewish or an Odinist, for that matter.

It's fundamentalism that scares me, fundamentalism in ANY religion, and the most dangerous of these in this country is fundamentalist Christians.

Me, I cut the "under God" out of my Pledge of Allegiance when I was still in grade school. I can honestly and earnestly pledge to the principles upon which our country was founded without any reference to any religion whatsoever -- after all, most of the Founding Fathers were Deists, and wouldn't be offended by the lack of a mention of "God" in their documents. And I can happily live with that in a candidate.

All that "hand over the heart" stuff is all show anyway -- most of them lie through their teeth, so what's a little meaningless hoopla to them? IF it is true (and I don't know that it is), that Obama doesn't place his hand over his heart during the National Anthem -- so what? That's really rather meaningless either way.

But the bottom line is that I still don't like or trust any of them AND ...

the lesser of two evils is still evil.

Doesn't make for a good mind-set handing to the polls. "

" In my opinion I think CM has raised some valid questions concerning what is happening to the world. Was 9-11 racist? Were the terrorists bigots? Did they preach hatred?
This country has been affected by radicals on both sides of the fence. But there is no middle ground with these people. I have seen them at work, I have seen them preach hatred towards the white man, I have seen them preach death to all non believers, I have witnessed this first hand. I have seen them applaud openly when the planes crashed into the towers. So I think cm has raised some valid questions concerning how this man was raised. After all who wants a wacko in the white house,, right? "

" cm, you're unapologetically ignorant aren't you? Are you posting this utterly irrelevant garbage because you're RACIST, or just BIGOTED? "

" I believe alot of folks are under the misnomers about Obama because of em's that are circulating. Such as not placing his hand over his heart during the nat'l anthem but that was dispelled as another song that was playing. Another em uses his middle name of "Hussien" prominently therefore leading prople to think he is some undercover terrorist b4 they even get to the body of the em. Which contains words like muslim and atheist and radical in large bold letters and claims it is factual per snopes.com. I think the majority of folks will take a chain ltr as gospal rather than take the time to actually do some research and find out who really w/b good to vote for. We as Americans for the most part have become complacent and lazy. "

" The cool thing about google search is the wonderful little "blue highlights" when you click onto them you get even more info!
Barack Hussein Obama (name), raised until 10 yrs. old by his Muslim grandparents,whom lived surrounded with Muslims.
Q. where they they good or bad?
A. we don't know --we didn't live there.

Church & Motto: Trinity adopted the motto "Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian"

Pastor: Rev. Wright who forcefully speaks about racism, who associates with Louis Farrakhan, leader of the Nation of Islam, who praises Farrakhan as "truly epitomized greatness,a person with "integrity and honesty".
Rev Wright states "the September 11 attacks as a “wake-up call” to America for ignoring the concerns of “people of colour”, and for claiming that Americans “believe in white supremacy and black inferiority . . . more than we believe in God”.

Q. Are we to believe that Obama has NO beliefs in Muslim/anti-white racism when he has attended a church that preaches this for over 20years?
Q. If Obama is so PROUD of his church & Pastor OF 20 YEARS, then why did he scrapped plans of having Rev. Wright introduce him at his Presidential announcement.
A..LIES,SECRETS, with probably video tapes to come.
"

" Farmer's Gal, I take my car to an experienced mechanic, not the one just learning. BTW, MIT just published a plan that said Senator Clinton's plan was far better at economically insuring the uninsured: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/04/opinion/04krugman.html?em&ex=1202274000&en=15e3ef55ea8cce37&ei=5087 "

" cm, please, for once tis election, please reject the ignorant slop vomited out of Faux News and pay attention to real news sources. And turn off that Idiotic A$$ Rush Limpbrain!
Sheeesh, The first candidate who actually excites young people and talks like a REAL leader--Barack---and there are people still falling for tawdry boolship like that!
"

" Obama attends the United Church of Christ in Chicago. He once attended a public school in the Muslim country of Indonesia. He is not and has never been a Muslim (not that there's anything wrong with that).

cm...you might try a quick Google search before you repeat the drivel (lies?) you hear on Faux News. "

" Farmer's gal, all I see is Osama chanting change, change, change! But he never says what. "

" CM, where and when did Obama go through Muslim training? And even if he did, so what? Most muslims are very good people.

There are some fanatics, as with any religion. Just look at Falwell and Robertson (actually, I do not believe they're the least bit religious, but that is another story).

Regarding Kerry being a traitor - another insane right-wingnut talking point. Although on one point I do agree he is a traitor - that is to his supporters when he did not contest the election. It has since been proven that he won, and election officials in Ohio are in jail as a result of the fraud. "

" So far I am still NOT impressed by ANY of the nominees! BUT for sure Obama is checked OFF my list--if he can't place his hand on his heart for our national anthem,(respect for our country)and his background of Muslim training--then the thought of him in office scares me! "

" I'm not a big fan of John Kerry as I think he is a wish-washy politician, but it baffles me how people can call him a traitor when he volunteered for combat in Vietnam. I suppose Bush is a patriot for being AWOL from a cushy national guard gig during that same time, or Cheney who got 4 deferments during the same time saying that he had other priorities. "

" another great idea,Pentangelli, a small but nice family campground. A few years back we would meet family in NY at a campground in Verona-we had the best of times! One in Auburn on the lake would be great!!!! I would camp there! "

" If your car is broken and in need of repair, do you take it to a mechanic who is paid by an auto parts company and likely to tell you that you need all kinds of extra work you don't really need? That's what it means voting for candidates who are taking huge campaign contributions from corporations which do not have your best interests at heart -- like Clinton's relationship to the pharmaceutical industry, for example. How dare she call herself a health care reformer under the circumstances! "

" Why aren't the sidewalks at Casey Park
Elementary cleaned off. Are the other schools the same way? "

" Isnt the land that's adjacent to the CC where the disc golf is? I believe that had a slow start because of all the poison ivy and of course the neighbors(not near me!). The county is responsible for what goes on at the lake. Donated land that was initially set for the good of the people. I feel they push the NO free enterprise up there to far, ie a hotel. Owasco lake is one lake we NEVER go to except for the MGR. Its the only FL with no wineries or much of anything. "