" Perhaps that's what they said when someone first proposed the steam engine. It's not magic, and it surely exists, we just haven't figured it out yet.

Either that, or we just have to wish for a huge plague to kill off about 7/8 of the earth's population so we don't consume and destroy so much. Now THAT is unrealistic.

As I've said before, I'm against industrial wind turbines, not against wind energy, which in and of itself is indeed clean.

But I still stand by this creed: The lesser of two evils is still evil.
"

" My point was that solar would be very affordable and competitive today were it not for Reagan's idiocy and love for the oil and energy conglomerates. The R&D to make photovoltaics competitive would have been paid for years ago with a concentrated effort. Even now the technologies on the horizon promise to make solar affordable, and this is with virtually no help from Uncle Sam.

Solar is/was only one aspect of Carter's energy program. It had many components. Conservation was one of them. Perhaps the only thing about his energy program that was IMO overkill, was the 55 mph speed limit. "

" I have heard and seen going with "solar" maybe a great course of action. The tune of 40 grand to start with it however is way out of the average persons budget! I don't think I would like a nuke plant close to my home! Drilling for oil in our waters maybe ok depending on the locations-both parties seem to want to drill the Gulf of Mexico but to me with that being hurricane alley-it seems the hazards are far more there than the benefits. Overall there is not ONE sole idea that doesn't have a pro & con attatched! "

" So you're looking for some magic energy source that doesn't yet exist. That is not feasible. You sound like the nuts that are looking for a way to convert straw to gold. "

" FG, yeah thanks, it was the Secret Fallout book - very illuminating indeed. He convinced me that we were all being sold a bill of goods by the nuclear power industry. It was a real eye opener.

What we need is to resurrect Carter's energy program in some form - the one which Reagan promptly discarded when he got into office. Had we followed that program we wouldn't be in this mess now.

We are very close to a point where solar is becoming competitive to many forms of energy production, and without the huge external costs.

I would bet that solar would have been competitive in the last 15 years or so had Carter's program had been left in place. The energy companies HATE the idea of decentralized energy though, which is why we are where we are.

By the way, for anyone interested, check out Nicola Tesla. He seems to be a man that history forgot. One of the most prolific inventors ever, he was able to produce energy out of thin air. The government immediately confiscated all of his belongings upon his death.
"

" CM - The state provides "textbook aid" for purchasing books. The schools try to time purchases to match the aid -say, every five years. $100 per text is not unusual! BTW, $110k for a sound system covering an entire stadium does not seem remarkable. "

" AJ:

Ernest J. Sternglass has written several books. The one you read might have been one of these:

Low-level radiation (1972 -- 36 yrs ago)

Secret fallout : low-level radiation from Hiroshima to Three Mile Island. (1981 -- 27 yrs ago)


The enemy within : the high cost of living near nuclear reactors : breast cancer, AIDS, low birthweights, and other radiation-induced immune deficiency effects [by Jay M. Gould -- co-authored by members of the Radiation and Public Health Project, incl. Dr. Sternglass](1996 -- 12 yrs ago)

Dr. Sternglass has contributed to these related titles (as well as writing a couple books on the Big Bang theory):

Diet for the atomic age [by Sara Shannon -- Introduction by Dr. Sternglass] (1987)

The Petkau effect : nuclear radiation, people, and trees [by Ralph Graeub -- Introduction by Dr. Sternglass] (1992)

Three Mile Island : turning point [by William Keisling -- Afterword by Dr. Sternglass](1980)

It's handy to have access to the world's biggest bibliographic database!

But you can only read so many of these kinds of books -- it's just so depressing to get the down and dirty details of how badly we've destroyed our own health and environment. "

" We need scientists with more powerful motivation to find a clean, safe, healthy, renewable and cost-efficient source of energy. I am not a scientist, and I don't have the answers, but I do not want to see us pursuing proposed "solutions" which still cause health or environmental problems. So, you are right -- I am not for coal, nor oil, nor nuclear, nor huge industrial turbines -- but rather for more money to go into research to find something clean, safe, healthy, renewable and cost-efficient.

The lesser of two evils is still evil. Keep looking. "

" hey JLmorgan-you are more familiar than I in this area--I know the monies from the state on this issue can go towards ONLY certain areas! Teachers pay is a different budget-WHAT areas can these monies be designated to? I know repairs for buildings are allowed, IS book purchasing allowed? maybe if the citizens see where these monies are allowed to go then that will aide in the voting. "

" Karl here is something you may enjoy; How about a PA syatem that costs $110,000 dollars? A $110,000 dollar system to call a football game. Imagine that! One would think there was a dome at that stadium. How many books would that buy. I wonder how many power amps they intend on buying? "

" We need sources for energy. You have opposed wind turbines and nuclear power. Coal burning plants are not the answer and hydr power probably hurts some species of fishes. So do you have any proposals as to what we do? Maybe gerbils on wheels, no that would be cruelty to animals. We need to find the solution that hurts the least. "

" Farmer's Gal, thanks for the book tip.

I read a book nearly 30 years ago by a physicist from Lawrence Livermore laboratory. His name was Dr Ernest Sternglass. Not well known, but had impeccable credentials. He studied radiation fallout patterns from various sources based on wind conditions, and came up with some startling statistics. If I remember correctly, we in this area have been exposed to a great deal of fallout from the Nevada test detonations. The book showed escalating cancer rates, deformation, and retardation rates were a result of this fallout.

I think he has written new work on the subject, and I forget the name of the original book. I do remember the impact it made on my thinking about nuclear energy and how this invisible force affects us all. "

" Jim, thank you for the kind words, and I hope your son is still rockin' out--your appraisal is correct--I have NOT done my homework adequately on this one. I admit that I am impressed with Jerry's documentation of the issue, but I have also read the rebuttals by some posters here.
The reason I am still currently against this is because I cannot, in my head, justify the use of monies--whether or NOT it is from a grant designed for that purpose--for benefiting a small constituency of the school population when the school needs so much more in terms of funding.
I also can't help feel that this issue is being driven on the heels of a championship season which is presenting an opportunistic attempt to ram home an issue WHICH HAS ALREADY BEEN REJECTED BY THE TAXPAYERS IN A PLEBISCITE!!
That strikes me as deceitful and unfair, and reeks of something rotten in the council's motivations.
On a practical and realistic side, there's that matter Jerry brought up about the interest being paid and the way that the bill will be distributed and paid. No sir; I don't like that, either.
High School sports has become BIG business lately and in my opinion, to the detriment of education. I can't help but feel that we don't need to be encouraging sports at the expense of academics--which seems to be what happens inevitably with many athletes who excel and are courted for their physical prowess rather than their brains. This whole issue has the taint of that issue for me.
The "kicker" though is that $597,000 concession stand. I will NEVER be able to get my head around that. "Frivolous spending" pretty much encapsulates my opinion on that.
Anyhoo--gotta admit that I don't have ALL the facts on this one. But the ones I feel that I do know cause me to weigh in against it--and then again, there's always that plebiscite issue. "

" Yes Karl call Mike Stearns and listen to all the wrong reason why this is needed. Or call Joe LeoGrande and listen to his numbers and the reason why this is not needed. Or look at your own personal situation and vote accordingly. If I am giving distorted figures then please Jim put the real figures on this site. Tell us how much Mike Stearns the Chair if the Long range Committee wants to spend on the Concession stand, the parking lot, the lighting, the announcers booth, the jogging track or the sound system, or the 396 computerized projectors and their $400 dollar replacement bulbs. Then ask why the parents have to spend almost $100 in supplies for their children's class. Ask why there is a shortage of books, and finally ask him how this building project is going generate housing, jobs, and increase our tax break. Vote no, you are on the right track. "

" Auburnpub Identity Theft?

Read all about it on the Webitor Blog, click here. "

" Karl...I've often enjoyed your two cents postings. You seem like the type of person that keeps an open mind and does his homework on issues before deciding how to move forward. Also, you taught my son guitar some years back and I was impressed by his description of your character. But here's the deal Karl...for some reason you've closed your mind on this school project. You haven't done your homework. You're being influenced by the one-sided, often distorted (or even untrue), and personally motivated negative postings of a certain local gadfly. Do your homework Karl. Call a board member (I suggest Mike Stearns). Look at the numbers. Talk to a design professional. Then get back to us. Thanks. "

" oh don't worry cm, I know--I've already had my rent increased last year. =(
I will be voting and taking my girlfriend with me! And giving a "heads up" to my students who are of voting age! "

" where you reaing my mind "brew"? I agree-karl- you are a renter-and even though you dont have kids in school, you are over 18, and in one way or another all taxes affect you too! VOTE! "

" Even if they raised a teachers pay to 150grand a year I STILL WOULDNT WANT the JOB! God Bless them for taking on such a chore. I have sat in on a few of my kids classes and I was so shocked at several of the kids behaviors. Teachers have to put up with way too much BS from kids, plus ignorant parents who swear their kid is an angel, and then add safety into the issue like not knowing if you fail a kid or send them to the principal they may come back and shoot you! It is sad and dangerous for the good kids who really want to learn, and for the good teachers who want to make a difference! "

" This is supposed to be a "two cents" forum, not a buck three eighties worth. "

" Teachers get more pay because of having to deal with the stress of out-of-control kids in the schools. Believe me, they earn their pay and need the break -- even with summers off, lots of teachers burn out.

20+ years ago, I did my student teaching at Auburn High. It was quite an experience and taught me that I don't have what it takes to keep a classroom full of hormonal teenagers under control -- so I changed career plans.

But apropos of this discussion, let me tell a little story about my time in Auburn High School.

I had two classes of 2nd year students in a foreign language. One was in the morning, and one was the last period of the day. The last period class, even when the strict middle-aged male master teacher was in the room, was always on the edge of going completely off the rails. The majority of the teacher's energy had to go into: SHUT UP AND SIT DOWN! which cut into any time I (or the Master Teacher) could spend TEACHING. There were a handful of "good students" in that class, who were trying to get an education, but their very best scores were only comparable to middling scores of the students in the morning class. It wasn't because they weren't as sharp -- it's because their educations were being shortchanged by the behavior of their classmates.

So, cm is right -- kids who come to school ready to learn are getting shortchanged because teachers have to spend so much time on discipline that they don't have as much time to put into teaching, and it gets worse as the kids get older. Smaller class size would help, and paying teachers adequately for the grief they have to endure is also necessary or the good teacher will go elsewhere.

But bottom line is that one group of kids come into school and make the schools places where it is hard to teach or learn, and eventually drag everyone else down with them -- the "good" kids, the teachers, the test scores and all of it. Eventually, even kids who would have done well come to hate school because it is a miseerable place to be.

Like so many other things, the whole system is broken, and a band-aid patch isn't going to cure it -- certainly throwing money at football turf isn't going to help the schools in any fundamental way. "

" Don't feel that being a renter does not affect you in the matter of property taxes. When taxes increase so does your rent. The property owner can not absorb increases for long before he passes the expense to his tenants. "

" Damn, just noticed your post about the school board meeting jerry--sorry I missed it! I was teaching today until 7:00. I would have gone had I known, even though I'm a renter; I'd have been interested to see the fireworks! "

" Farmer's Gal, I'm sorry to hear that. How juvenile and immature! Don't worry, though--we know the tenor of your posts, as you know mine! =)
You know there seems to be a general resentment of posters on blogs like this from people who resent when an individual has done their homework or can eloquently elucidate a position or opinion. I'm on another blog--boy if you think THIS one is hostile!...--and some of the posters there absolutely cannot STAND when you cite facts and references that refute their contentions.
There are also the "old lions" of the blogs--people who have been there a while and resent another "young male" coming into the "pride" and getting some of the attention. It must go back to high school, when they didn't feel up to snuff and resentful of the smarter kids in class, and so they take it out here in cyberspace?
Don't worry, FG--the fact that they've targeted you as well means you're doing something right!
I have also inquired at the Citizen what the purpose was of registering names if they couldn't put a stop to phony posters? I would think that they could do that at this stage? "

" By the way the instructors at CCC aren't teachers they are professors. They aren't part of the school district system. They are state employee's but a different kind. "

" "stevedallas" you are 100% right. The caring parents trying their best to raise decent kids are the ones paying higher taxes, spendng beyond their paychecks for extra school activities, give quality time at home and at school,and read with their kids! The other class of parents could care less where their 14yr old is at 2 AM! "

" Most other states don't have nearly as many requirements for teachers. Many states don't even require certification much less a Masters degree. "

" Missi,

Read my post. Your average professional employee works 45 to 51 weeks a year 5 days a week. 225 to 255 days a year minus holidays.

Most do not get any tuition assistance for their Masters degrees. That only happens thru special programs for low income districts. That is usually balanced out by the fact that starting teachers in those districts start at 10 to 30 percent less than that 37K Figure you used. "

" The drop out rate is a direct result of this administration getting away from education and removing the tools from those responsible for getting the job done. If your care needs repair you take it to a mechanic, as such if our system is failing let the professionals do the job they were hired to do. JD Pabis is micro managing and is the proverbial monkey wrench in the works. Unfortunately there is noone holding this man responsible. Imagine, no supplies in the class rooms, yet we are able to afford $400.00 light bulbs.
Change is needed on this board, they are on the fast track to ruin, and Mike Stearns, Bill Andre, and the rest of the happy go lucky bobble heads are in lock step with an administrator that is plainly over his head. "

" OK, Karl, looks like I have joined the ranks of those whom others feel the need to imitate. Someone else has faked my user ID and posted comments which aren't mine. What is The Citizen doing about this? Can't you set up your registration so that no two users can have the same ID? That ought not to be so difficult.

Can't help it if people have short attention spans and brains not big enough to wrap around issues which take more than a sound byte to get across. "

" The drop out rate is due to the class of people which now call auburn home! "

" AND there is a school board meeting tonight at Auburn High School, show up and voice your concerns over this spending plan. "

" Andy,
They have Christmas vacation, Spring vacation, Summer vacation,and every holiday off.They work 187 days per year.
Many are paid while they are seeking their higher degrees.
If you want't to feel sorry for teachers, feel sorry for the teachers in the south,who make $25,000 per year and have no where near the benefits. "

" On Jan.31 at 1pm Brian Kolb will be at the Owasco Town Hall for a meeting to discuss issues with area residents. Please come and have your say on our skyrocketing taxes, government spending and any other issue you feel is needed to bring to his attention. "

" School boards like big fancy projects like that so they can point to it and tell people "I did that". Hiring an extra teacher to reduce class size and increase test performance a couple of points isn't "sexy" enough for them. "

" It seems someone has succeeded in changing the focus from needless spending on wish list items to the teachers. The focus should be on the failure of this board to recognize internal problems within our educational system. The board is willing to spend millions and millions of our hard earned monies on frivolous items like parking lots, concession stands, and turf while ignoring the fact our schools have been placed on the states failure list. This board has turned a blind eye when it comes to the drop out rate, they ignore the plea of the teachers on important educational issues by ignoring grievances and treating the staff like second rate citizens. Instead of fixing or maintaining the infrastructure and addressing the multitude of problems our district is facing, this board chooses instead to spend millions on frivolous items while letting educational problems fester like an infected wound. How many teachers would a $597,000 concession stand hire? How many kids will decide to stay in school because we built a $597,000 concession stand? If this money is allocated, what then becomes of the district when it is time to address the teachers contract? Or what about the Administrators contract? Both are up for renegotiation this year, will that mean another tax hike with the blessing of Bill Andre, and Mike Stearns and JD Pabis? Is this the plan?

I say invest in our teachers, hire the teachers that are needed to fix the problems this district is facing. Once this is done, then maybe we can address spending millions on pie in the sky items. Or maybe the board can cut an administrator or two to get some extra money. This is where we are top heavy, we have too many chiefs and not enough indians. "

" I agree that there is a tremendous amount of cancer is this area, but there seems to be an even greater number of cases of MS. I think the Citizen should do an investigative story...I'd be interested in their findings! "

" I belileve wholeheartedly in the lack of accountability for teachers/schools.

That being said Teachers work 9 months a year not 6 months. They receive only 3 vacation days a year that never increases due to seniority. A work day(which never ends when the kids get on the bus)is almost always more than 8hrs.

Add to that the fact that they have 6 years of post highschool education. That cost anywhere from 90k to 150k to complete. "

" As I recall this school budget has nothing to do with pay-this has to do with rebuilding/repairing/replacing. The teachers pay is a whole new department which is probably a cubicle away yet totally different money areas.Kind of like when my daughter got into a car accident-my Gieco had to sue the other cars Geico-who really was in the next cubicle. Each cubicle was its own division! I agree teachers GOOD teachers need better pay rates and less to the adminstrators who seem to hold meetings and disagree for a whopping 150grand a year! So if you want to discuss PAY then call the other cubicle phone line! lol. "

" My God Candi,
where to start. Teachers are "under payed"? I believe the word is "underpaid". The reason musicians, actors and ball players make lots of money is WE PAY TO SEE THEM. When they don't perform, they're history. I believe teachers should make more too, but try and get rid of a bad teacher. Good luck with the NEA. "

" Just a short follow up to my post from yesterday. I made a really bad typo: I meant to say Wells were NOT polluted when the countryside was covered with small family farms....

(Made a few typos today too, but none which reversed my meaning like the one noted above). "

" Actually there are a fair number of jobs in industry/health care that pay like that for 187 days. I worked for a while in a factory with 12 hour shifts, I worked 3 days one week 4 days the next. My pay was similar to what a teacher makes. Some rival industries worked 4 days on 4 days off with the 12 hour shift. So its 183 days a year, throw in a few weeks vacation (say 3 at 3.5 days a week)you are looking at roughly 173 days a year. I know that some nurses (which is also a job that pays well) have similar schedules as well. If your only skill is flipping burgers or saying "Welcome to Wal Mart", then no you won't get those benefits. A friend of mine owns a seasonal restaurant/lodge he works from May-Nov, as I also have friends who work construction who generally don't work much in the off season- get paid very well during the high months and collect unemployment in low months. "

" DO YOU KNOW THAT THE STARTING PAY FOR A TEACHER IS AROUND $37,000 PER YEAR. They work 187 days per year, have full retirement benefits,full health insurance benefits.Most teachers make over $50,000 after 10years. The teachers with 20 years make over $70,000.Depending on when they were hired they can retire at 50% to 75% of their pay.
What private sector job pays that for 6 months work?
If a teacher is a good teacher not just a tenured teacher going along for the ride, pay them $100,000 per year. At least the children would benefit from all the $$$$$$$$$$$$ we throw at the system!!! "

" cm, AJ and anyone else interested in the rising cancer rate -- read the book "Living Downstream" by Sandra Steingraber. It is a dense grind of a read, despite the author's attempts to make it more accessible by including many personal stories, but the fact-backed information contained in it is invaluable.

In a nutshell, the author describes the myriad of carcinogens in our environment, many of them unregulated or unchecked by any kind of goverment oversight.

There are also lots of "endocrin disrputors" and other hormone-mimicking chemicals in our environment which absolutely cause a whole additional set of illnesses (and which, imho, probably contribute more to American obesity even than fast food).

Agribusiness is a big contributor to these pollutants in our air, water and soil, but they are protected by the so-called "right to farm" laws and by the DEC who won't even come out to check on complaints, and who only inspected less than 10% of CAFOs in a 5 year period from 2000-2005.

When you hear that your tax dollars are going to cover up some big corporate farm's liquid manure pond because the fumes are toxic, you should be paying attention. Those fumes are still toxic as they spread that liquid manure on the fields near your homes -- as the gases are "lost to the environment" along with what goes into the soil and is washed into our water. They overspread far beyond what the crops take up as nutrients, and there's lots of other gop in there besides just cow manure -- cleaning products and antibiotics, etc etc.

(Not to mention that it just isn't right that the tax payers should be paying to clean up the waste of corporations in pursuit of profit -- they should have to pay to clean up their own waste).

But there are also a lot of those corporate interests right here in our communities who have worked for years to obsfucate the source of these toxins in our environment, so good luck proving it in a court of law.

Meanwhile, we are breathing and drinking and otherwise absorbing all these bad things into our bodies every day. "

" These under payed teachers are the ones that are educating OUR children!! Why shouldn't they deserve to get raises or a much better salary??? Musicians, actors and ball players make millions of dollars each year, while the majority of our teachers are struggling each month with their own bills and the budgets they are given to teach the children. We need to start supporting our teachers!! And we, as parents and family members, need to help them educate our children, so they aren't the only ones that have to! "

" PS. when I am in town I always buy the Citizen! It's an addiction! I agree it has grown so small over the years--I choose to support the local businesses--My family laughs at me, but I still must have it! "

" "stevedallas" I had a post that this happened to last week too! I figured the paper liked it so much and knew it would add "bickering" they carried it over! lol... "

" As I see it the Citizen has "blogs" of no interest-I do think one should be started on this AREA cancer issue-add names,type of cancer and what town locally. I realize there are HIPPA laws-yet I do think most would waive those to aide in finding possible causes. Or just use first names if they wanted their identies withheld. Maybe this also help the ones using the "Erin Brockovich" law firm. I happen to read the OBITS daily and everyday there is a cancer related death. I have relatives and friends that have cancer or died of cancer in the Auburn area and surrounding towns. Everyone I have spoken to ask the same questions-WHY are there so many with cancer in these areas? ARE they really higher than the norm? WHAT is possibly adding to the cancer rates in the areas? "

" "Why have the CCC teachers been without a contract for four years now? The excellent professionals deserve a decent wage package, just like the rest of the world."
Define the rest of the world? Just in the liberal world of Higher Education? Of the real world that has to pay taxes to support it? I never had a "contract" in my life. I get raises baised on merit, new term for you people that are supported by the taxpayers. Hope you all have to join the real world soon. "

" How does a post at 420pm get responded to at 313pm? Anyways I would only read the citizen online cause i wouldnt spend my money to but it! "

" We are not on well water but county water which still differs from city water prices. I am not a fan of well water-due to its instability, whether its good today and bad tomorrow or lots of it today and a drip tomorrow! However,whether it may be big business' fault, city or county fault I have come to known way too many having cancer or dying of cancer in the city limits and the towns just outside of the limits. I know they have done numerous testing and of course found nothing substantial to the source-BUT it would be intersting if the Citizen would look deeper and posting a log of the cancer to families in the area! "

" Interesting point cm, I too have heard that cancer levels are high in this area particularly leukemia - many blaming the water. The reason I drink only bottled. Hey EDITORS of the Citizen, how about an investigative story regarding this issue to determine if this is urban legend or not. "