" And Karl, any time you want to talk to me I live just down the street from the studio in the big yellow house. Just stop on by. Bring Joe and Lou with ya, we go wayyyyyy back "

" Come on Karl, relax, even when I'm not part of the conversation you bring me into it. This may come as a shock to you but I also agree with some of what you say concerning the ACLU. As well as a few of the prayer issues. Concerning Lattimore and his prayers, well I couldn't care less what he prays about, it does not add to nor does it take away anything from me or my life. As for calling you a degenerate, I don't believe I ever called you any names. You were the one that was quick on the trigger. I just enjoyed the banter and lobbed a few back atcha. Once again, by playing the devils advocate, I have learned I can push a few buttons. Sabe? "

" DD, calm down and read my original long post at the bottom of the page. (I know it's a bit long-sorry!) You've got yourself in a huff over nothing. I AGREE THAT THIS IS STUPID! The ACLU is no favorite son of mine, even though they have done their part in helping the secular cause. This is the "Civil Rights equivalent" of "ambulance chasing" in my view. By the way, if "this is of no great importance" then you might ask yourself why the Right thinks it is to? HMMM??? Why is Lattimore pushing the issue in the first place then?! Personally, I haven't ost a minute of sleep over it--I'm not obsessed with eradicating every trace of religious tradition on America; that would be fanatical and extreme. But it IS a "slippery slope" if you start letting "generic" prayer become SPECIFIC prayers to a certain deity. Again--it doesn't just benefit Atheists or agnostics, it benefits ALL creeds and ALL Religion! Haven't you ever read about the Puritans and Quakers and Shakers and Mormon conflicts in the early colonies?! Our own founding fathers came here in response to a situation where the English Parliament went into paroxysms because a JEW (HORRORS!) was DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED to a post! THAT'S what I'm talking about! Please, research it! And then get your EYES checked along with your ears--that "firetruck" may be tinnitus! ;) "

" Thanks, coach--jrmorgansr--isn't that "Jerry Morgan? If I'm wrong on that, please correct me. :) "

" How is Timmy reciting a prayer, depriving another person from having their own religious fredom? No one religion was endorsed. This is another example of the liberal watchdogs picking on something that is of no importance. I hear the faux firetrucks now Karl----- Have you ever noticed that the complaining is not coming from: Jewish, Muslim, Budhist people etc. It comes from the ACLU or liberals athiests like yourself, who resemble Al Sharpton, and Jessie Jackson. Making a whole lot of something from nothing. Again, I say, if there is NO God, then why would you, or anyone else be wasting time on it---just like calling the fire department to put our a fire that doesn't exist Karl---woooooooooo, clang clang clang, woooooooooooooooooooo. "

" Karl whos jerry morgan? "

" Karl glad to see you in a good mood today.I promise not to P... you off today. Your much nicer when your in a good mood. TRUCE. I just like to have some fun. "

" DD, if I lived that close to the fire house, I would move if I were you! Anyway, you've actually nailed part of the issue, perhaps without realizing it. It's not about "Is there a God or isn't there a God?". It's about somebody else believing that there IS and then making the State an instrument of forcing that belief--especially if it's a particular creed--on everyone else. This isn't just an issue for Atheists, DD. Quite the contrary! History has shown that the FIRST groups to suffer when States endorse a particular creed or Religion are OTHER Religions. Research the early history of our own country if you don't believe me. This is about protecting the rights of OTHER Religions' right to believe and practice what they want without having a State-endorsed "acceptable" religion. That's why a prayer CANNOT be sectarian; ie, mention a specific deity. Understand? :) "

" Oh, yea, PS--Karl, the athiests are at it again. I can hear the firetrucks coming!! Again, I say, if God doesn't exist, why would an intelligent human being spend so much energy trying to dispell such a "myth"? "

" Why isn't the ACLU busy freeing terrorist suspects or something? "

" coach, do you have any idea how your posts are PO'ing jerry morgan? Careful there, or he might label you a "degenerate"! Anyway, no offense, I'm sorry to have over-reacted! :) "

" Oh Karla calm down. Dont get your panties in a bunch.Just bustin you. "

" geez, coach; I had a little hope for you today...sorry to see you've regressed into stupidity. Feel free to check my facts, and marvel at my wisdom while you're at it. Go ahead, you can say it; you envy that which you can not be! Oh, and uh...a little off-topic here, but what is your fascination with your wishing me being feminine/girly??? You got a thing for transgenderers or transvestites??? (They're in the dictionary) In that case, stay away from my door, buddy; I'm not going there with you! YOu can stick to your DVDs or whatever, but I'm 100% MAN, coach! "

" Again you baffle with your bull s.....Amazing, you are the women. "

" coach, you still haven't recognized my reasonable attempt at moderation and pragmatism here....(crickets....) "

" Thanks, hillbilly--you are correct. The Atheism of the USSR was really a political Atheism which merely replaced creed and God with the cult of personality of the Leader and the State. It was entirely based on a religious model; huge images and icons, simplified slogans, a catechist structure in their writings and speeches, etc. Stalin was educated in a seminary, and so he both envied and adopted the rigid Authoritarian structures and methods of the Russian Orthodox Church. He also realized that Religion was but one more obstacle in his drive for utter and complete Authority and Control. Religious convictions were the one thing strong enough to undermine an individual's total submission and acceptance of him as a totalitarian dictator, and so Religion had to go. People who use this as a "catch all" way to disparage philosophical Atheism are either just not knowledgeable about it or just being plain intellectually dishonest--or worse, intentionally bigoted. "

" Deer hunting right now....SHHHHHH.Boy karla you have a big mouth "

" Karl very well written. And I agree with you the writer did try to tie Atheist to the Communist, which is wrong. I would assume an Atheist chooses for himself/herself to be an Atheist. Where the Communist government outlawed all religious practices giving no choice. "

" coach?.....(crickets...)...jerry?... (ocean sounds....) "

" gee, coach, jerry--where are ya's? Did I stun you into silence? or are ya's busy "googling" right now? LOL!! "

" Richmond, you are essentially correct in your appraisal of the core issue in this matter, and I commend you on a mostly well-written letter. Even I--the "town Atheist"--agree that this is a tempest in a teapot. The ACLU is would really be wasting their resources on this one; I would think they have much bigger fish to fry? It is within court rulings that non-sectarian, non-denominational prayers which invoke a “Higher Power” are legal, and within the boundaries of what the founding fathers would have wished. In this, I concur, and the ”wisdom to know what to try to change” here is a fitting admonition or desire. It is when prayers invoke specific deities—Jesus, Allah, Buddha, etc.—that they cross the line into constituting a state endorsement of Religion, and run the risk of alienating other creeds. The founders were very careful NOT to cross this line with their deliberately chosen wording. I surely hope that Mayor Lattimore will “have the wisdom” to respect this respectful principle. The one thing about this whole affair that truly saddens me is your silly, back-handed attempt at linking any defender of the “Separation Clause” with Communism by citing an obscure fact about Madalyn O’Hair’s attempt to get a visa to the USSR before her minor role in the issue of ending school prayer. As if this proves…what? The fact is that Engel v. Vitale, which prohibited the state from sponsoring specific prayers in public schools passed in 1962 by an 8-1 vote. The plaintiffs who challenged such prayers were a mixture of believers and nonbelievers in New Hyde Park, New York. O’Hair was not among them. Yet even before that. in 1948, McCollum v. Board of Education decided to end official religious exercises in public schools. O’Hair’s own minor role was preceded even still by Abington Township vs Shempp, the case with which hers was consolidated, This was filed by a Unitarian, Edward Shemp, challenging the requirement for his children to recite Protestant Bible verses in their public school. This was quite problematic for Catholics, Jews, and other creeds who attended the same school at the time. It was also decided 8-1 in favor of Shemp, but of course O’Hair being an Atheist, she got the infamy and blame. But the sooner that Social Conservatives stop trying to muddy the waters by dishonestly linking every single issue which contravenes their agenda with the spectre of "Communism", the more honest and productive discussions of issues such as this we will be able to have, with respect and moderation on BOTH sides. I hope I've proved that here. "