" "something positive"...(happy now?!)...anyhoo, good points FarmersGal...thank you for your intelligent and substantiated discourse on the subject, which more people should know. Bobbo, ask not for whom the Holstein moo's; it moo's for thee. ;) "

" If we didn't eat cows and drink their milk, they might have ended up extinct. Cows should be happy they taste so good, it perpetuates their existence. "

" HI PEOPLE. CAN ANY ONE OF YOU SAY SOMETHING POSITIVE? "

" Right-o, Karl L: You are right that a balanced diet is key -- not over-doing any part in relation to the others. And there is nothing wrong with eating more veggies -- I love them. They are a great source of all kinds of wonderful vitamins and nutrients. But most of the problems with red meat have to do with what's added to it (steroids, antibiotics, irradiation, etc), not how it grows naturally. Of course, you have to balance the amount and types of fat you take in, and some cuts of red meat have too much "bad" fat. Chicken has less fat, overall, but the way it is raised is no better -- they electrocute chickens now because it's cheaper than individual slaughter, and the conditions in which chickens are kept are deplorably inhumane. Yes, meat (protein in general) digests more slowly than, say, carbs -- but this is good, not bad. It helps prevent that insulin spike and drop thing -- quick energy followed by a rapid drop putting your body's metabolism on a roller coaster. Better to eat something with a bit more protein, with a bit of good fat -- say, a handful of peanuts or a wedge of cheese -- than something that translates into sugars in your body (like chips, for example). It's like taking slow-release vitamins -- the food will metabolize more slowly and last longer, you won't be hungry as soon, and you won't be putting your physical self through the highs and lows. I'm not a nutritionist myself, but I have been eating under the guidance of one for several years now, and have attended many lectures on the subject. Yes, most things worth knowing take "a lot of verbiage" to understand. Pity your average American has the attention span of a gnat and can't take in anything that requires him/her to concentrate for more than a sound byte's worth of info. No wonder people are so easily misled.... "

" With all due respect FarmersGal, I love ya, but meat is really NOT that good for you. It basically sits and rots in your gut before being digested, it is exceedingly hard for your system to digest compared to vegetable protein, and numerous studies have concurred that eating a lot of red meat is a contributing cause to several forms of cancer. Don't get me wrong--I thoroughly enjoy my venison, but people should really curb their intake, and eat more veggies. "

" geesh.....alot of verbage in defense of a burger. "

" Check your teeth -- humans were made to eat meat. All you have to do is look at how difficult it is to get complete proteins on a vegetarian diet to realize humans were made to eat meat. I agree completely that the way meat is raised in factory farms is a disgusting and cruel disgrace and needs reform badly. However, that does not change the biological fact that humans should eat meat to be healthy -- it means we need to change the way meat is produced so it can be healthy. My ex and I used to raise chickens -- just a backyard flock with some pets and some for meat. They all had good feed, got to run around, eat whatever plants they liked, eat bugs, have a happy life. They were not contained, or fed steroids or chemicals. When it came time to slaughter one, my ex always gave them a little duct tape blindfold, so they weren't scared. He kept the machete very sharp so it was over in a split second -- no fear, no pain -- just a happy, healthy life to the last moment. I always felt very good about eating that meat. It was tough as heck because the chickens ran around, but I have never, ever had chicken from a store with such a rich and delicious flavor -- and no guilt! Neither I nor anyone in my family is a hunter, but that's another kind of meat about which a person can feel good -- a good hunter can take down the animal in one shot -- all over with miniumum of pain or suffering. The number of hunters has decreased, the average age is well over 50 because young people don't take it up -- and the animals proliferate to the point where they will start dying of starvation in hard winters. It is much more humane to thin them out responsibly for meat through hunting. My boyfriend used to be a dairy farmer and they raised enough beef and pork for themselves on the side. Again, the animals were well cared-for, not fed unhealthy chemicals, and slaughtered humanely. This is how humans were meant to live. Huge factory farms full of animals doomed to live out their so-called lives in confined quarters, seldom if ever free to graze comfortably, fed antibiotics because the agribusiness farm owners can't be bothered with the expense of keeping them in clean, healthy conditions, fed steroids to make them bigger (studies have shown a huge link between the amount of steroid-fed beef consumed by American males, esp in the teen years, and sterility and low sperm count), etc -- THAT is the problem with the production of meat in this country. Corporations are the bane of our civilzation, and agricultural corporations are no different. They treat living creatures less well than cogs in a big machine, produce unhealthy foods and more waste than the land can bear. If we want to live healthy, we need to go back to a simpler way of living and eating. The answer is not to stop eating meat -- it is to insist on the healthy and ethical production of meat. To go vegetarian is to cop out and just keep allowing these cruel, inhumane and unhealthy conditions to continue, and if you think they don't affect your life directly because you aren't eating meat, think again next time you can't go swimming in the lake because the coliform levels are too high. Run off from too much manure spread on the fields is the culprit no matter how much people try to give that old "deer pooping in the woods" or "geese pooping in the lake" line. Eat meat -- it's good for you, but demand that the conditions under which it was raised were healthy and humane. "

" Vegetarianism alone isn't going to stop brutality in slaughterhouses. Too many people eat meat and need it for a boycott to work. It would be more effective to lobby for better conditions and tighter regulation. Better yet - run for office. I'm a meat lover, but I do support better conditions and a painless death for the animals - it's better for them and healthier for us. "