" Leave it to the woman who's life is automatically put at risk just because she is considering giving birth. Remember that any birth can kill the mother, and let her decide if she is willing to take that risk. The soldiers who are being asked to sacrifice their lives were given that choice thanks to our all volunteer military. Let the woman decide, her vote should be the only one that counts. The rest of you, stay the heck out of her uterus!!!! I can't believe the number of idiots that get sidetracked by this useless debate about abortion and thus miss the important issues, like whether Barry Bonds used steriods or not. This debate is almost as old as the chicken or egg debate , another theological debate which has absolutely no true effect on most American's lives. "

" If you ask me, the wingers should be pushing for better, more sensitive, condoms. "

" Since the Reagan administration the wingers have been fighting tooth and nail against sex ed and birth control and have succeeded in crippling if not defunding many important programs designed to prevent unwanted pregnancy in the first place. "

" Chris...sigh...(bangs head on the wall)...once afain this goes back to the fundamental point of "What do you consider a 'baby'?; what do you consider 'life'?" Sorry, but I just don't, never have, and never will, buy into the Religious Right's all-encompassing definition of "life". Therefore, I do not lose sleep thinking about unborn "children", as you so blithely term embryos and zygotes. However--listen! TRUMPETS!--I WILL say that, for once, we agree on one thing--personal responsibility! I could not agree with you more on that! But somehow, you,ve been sold this sham tale of "abortion as birth control". of course, that's a cynical and emotional (HORRORS!!) way to describe it, but what about people who simply cannot afford another child, or who diligently use birth control and get pregnant despite that? Do you know how many stories I've heard of domineering boyfriends who won't use birth control with their girlfriends because it makes them feel like "less of a man", or because they don't like the dulled sensation? What about these girls who are pressured or even threatened into sex, or are so ignorant about how you can get pregnant (because of our some parents' paranoia about sex education) that they fall for one of the many canards thrown out there by equally-ignorant teen boys, and then wind up "preggars"? I for one think it is DISGRACEFUL that any responsible adult would allow a 12,13,14 or 15 year-old child carry to full term--for a myriad of reasons! Yet, are you aware that the new thing among some really far-right religious pro-lifers is to now campaign against birth control ITSELF?! And they would, if allowed to, close down those family clinics that offer birth control! I mean, how misguided and miserable can these people get?! Just look at how ineffective and wasteful that whole "abstinence" charade was! I'm marking this day on my calendar..."me and Chris agree on something..." :) "

" I find it extremely hypocritical that the wingers have consistently fought against sex ed and birth control too. It is utterly amazing. "

" Oh Karl, you don't seem to mind killing unborn children and your reason being there are too many people here anyway or that they may grow up in a less than optimal environment. Interesting take on things. I think it should be legal, I don't agree with it, but we can't go back to "back alley" operations that we've had in the past. Karl, it boils down to personal responsibility, something the left in this country have forgotten about. The only 100% sure fired way of NOT having an unwanted child is not to have sex. When you use abortion as a birth control method, you've got a problem. Sex and reproduction are not rights, they are responsibilities and this needs to be drilled into people's heads. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should and if you are going to, use the proper protection. You can get it free at the Family Planning clinic. If something happens and a pregnancy occurs, there are plenty of people that want to adopt a child. "

" And Chris--thank Roe-v-Wade that those "48.5 million babies" are NOT alive today! The world is WAAAY overpopulated as it is with resources becoming scarce and people starving from lack of arable land, and you people want to bring in MORE?! You know what KILLS me about you people and your twisted "reasoning"??!! You want to save every "baby" that's ever been conceived, without being willing to admit that an aborted baby was an UNWANTED baby! That means that the mother or father wouldn't WANT the baby in the first place, so that baby more than likely is gonna end up being raised on government aid, in a foster home, in an orphanage or on the street! And YOU'RE THE FIRST ONES TO B*TCH ABOUT GOVERNMENT AID AND "WELFARE" FAMILIES! HYPOCRITE!! HYPOCRITE!!! Or they wind up being raised without fathers, or by parents COMPLETELY UNFIT to parent, and so will wind up in the system--on drugs, in trouble, costing Society inestimably MORE in both financial and societal obligations! I mean, do you people ever sit and really THINK something like this through to it's LOGICAL END??!! I mean, c'mon, can you really be that obtuse? And please, you or cm--please don't make me laugh by throwing in some comment about people not having sex if they don't want babies! "

" cm, you've pproven to me that your credibility is on the level with Chris van Coulter's, and rd...you have a black heart, and are ignorant. Under your system, more INNOCENT PEOPLE would DIE, wrongly convicted by those same, corrupt "coke lawyers" which you purport to disdain. Your "logic" is illogical, rambling, disconnected, and self-contradictory. Your "points" illuminate nothing; you simply take weak "cheap shots" make self-righteous declarations oblivious to your own hypocrisy. You content yourself with calling into question MY character while ignoring both the heartless imputations of your OWN posts and the strong points of my arguments. You whine about all the "choice" that "our fathers FOUGHT (spelling?!) so that we could have" and yet would in the same breath deny your own sex the right to their own bodies and reproduction-pathetic! It is no wonder you would defend Ducayne--you are very nearly her double, with the same self-authenticating, scientifically-indefensible warped interpretation of what constitutes both "life" and a "baby".I suppose I shall have to suffer through your wearisome tirades though, after all our fathers fought WWII so that we could post on this forum, right? BTW, every year I have donated between $400 and $800 dollars of clothes, furniture and other items to charity services in Auburn. Yaaawn.... "

" horray chris van!! CHOICES-a concept our fore-fathers FAUGHT many wars over for us to have! We have the choice to get out of bed or put a gun to our head! We have the choice to work hard to better our lifes or booze and drug ourselves to death! We have the choice to aid others or turn our backs and ignore them! We have the choice to face our opponents or to run away from them! And if you haven't told your mom today--THANK-YOU for giving me life I could have been in a petri-dish being dissected and not to breath at all and have all these CHOICES !!!! "

" Well Karl, what about your liberal compadres? Per the Guttmacher Report and the CDC, over 48.5 Million babies were aborted from the inception of Roe V Wade in 1973 to now. Thats 48.5 Million people not alive today. Typical that you don't mention all of the foriegn aid we shell out including food, medicine and equipment to third world countries. Or how you conveniently forget to bring up Hussein's genocidal tendencies, the 500K of his own people he murdered plus how many he killed in Kuwait and during the Iran/Iraq war. The adult men and women fighting in Iraq made a choice to join the military, I dare say that the aborted children didn't get that choice. "

" Very well said Karl. It amazes me to no end the disconnect many people have when it comes to the sanctity of life. OTOH, maybe she is/was unaware of many of these facts surrounding death sentences - we all know the media does a horrible job of painting the truth about GB. On the issue of the war, there should be no doubt in anyone's mind now though where GB stands when it comes to life - he couldn't care a bit, and it should be as obvious as the nose on one's face. "

" Human life? Have you purchased baby items and donated to your local under 18 and pregnant organization? Do you babysit for your family or friends so they can work and put food on the table?? "

" Shouldnt these 3rd world countries take care of themselves instead of staying poverished and begging us americans to give to them? Karl when is the last time you visited these countries and gave aide to it? I volunteer to feed the homeless in MY area---- AND YOU???????????? "

" I think those on death row need not wait 15years getting college educations off of my money--executions should be held like SADDAM's -guilty--appeal denied-dead.."EXCEPT they should be televised to scare straight some of these "coke" lawyers!! "