" Dan W wrote on Jul 26, 2007 10:17 PM: " I can define a fool. "Someone who belives that the US goverment. Conspired to take down the world trade center, attack the pentagon and flight 93 that the passengers fought back that crashed in a field in PA." Now that is a FOOL! Its not even an opinion, its a lie spread over in the middle east, one of many. Some people need to read up a bit on events in the middle east. Not the news, history over the past 1400 yrs. Might wake you up a bit. " Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level. The beat you with experiance. I can not belive some of the statements here, its sad that some people hate the US so much. Leave if its all that bad "

" Dick WHO????? Where is this Dick guy who does absolutly nothing but collect a check "

" I think Marvin Bush needs to be put on the stand. What do your think? "

" DD, you have ignored my question about the debris. Where is it? Before you go on about my patriotism, and judgement, or lack thereof, please answer the question. And let's not forget, YOU brought it up. " "

" I would just like to say one more thing if I may. I think all you wingers out there are totally delusional and/or deranged. I've never witnessed a more pathetic bunch of A butts in my life. "

" I need to add that Rosie was also right on the money, in case you misunderinterpreted me. Bricks. "

" Chris, I think she was being a bit facetious. Unfortunately you don't know enough to know better... "

" Rosie “I do believe that it’s the first time in history that fire has ever melted steel" ODonnell, yep a woman with brains and in the know! "

" Uh, puhleeeez, Chris,...I can recognize sarcasm, thank you. Funny how you resort to insult when you can't think of anything else to say. Conservatives abuse "Insult" as an argumentative tactic as much as you ALLEGE that Liberals use "Emotion". BTW, that horse I've been riding is a horse of STEEL! ;) "

" BTW DD, I think Rosie O has more class and smarts than most people. It's unfortunate that all of a sudden she is villified for her 9/11 beliefs, and not the trash TV she was in the past sometimes guilty of. Anyhow, she does seem to know the facts as best anyone can know until we get a real investigation. "

" The Bush-Cheney thing I posted was satire (Irony, sarcasm, or caustic wit used to attack or expose folly, vice, or stupidity). And since you believe the truther nonsense...I hate to be the bad guy here but Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny aren't real. That Unicorn you've been riding is really a horse, I pasted a used paper towl roll on his head because I didn't want to see you dissapointed. "

" BTW DD, I think logically everyday. Part of my varied workload includes computer programming - I know all about logic. It pains me to see how so many others don't. "

" DD, you have ignored my question about the debris. Where is it? Before you go on about my patriotism, and judgement, or lack thereof, please answer the question. And let's not forget, YOU brought it up. "

" Wow, I'm surprised that they're still leaving this post up here, they usually wipe it out at noon--must be entertaining to the editors? Anyhoo-- Chris, I can't believe you wasted the time to type all that, but it's pretty dead-on accurate, I'm sure, to the thoughts of these criminals. BTW, it's a bit revealing and sad how much faith and reverence you hold for guys who "have a degree in aeronautics, engineering, or physics"--as if that fact alone would make them INCAPABLE of being bought, threatened, or outright LYING to advance an agenda..??!! I'll bet they were PAID HANDSOMELY for their obfuscations! Besides, they could very well be people like YOU, Mr Coulter; someone who would deny the truth if it bit 'em square in the a$$--besides, Chris, I got something better--a critical mind, an inquisitive and independent spirit, and COMMON SENSE! Oh, were it but that you and your crew had the same! YOu guys are the stereotypes of the typical Republican schmuck who is responsible for our country's downfall--too willing to blindly respect authority, and to FOLLOW, FOLLOW, FOLLOW, just as long as someone will LEAD YOU and inure you from having to think for yourselves! "

" One need more than simple reasoning and logic to arrive at a valid conclusion Chris - you also need facts. But facts are something that you and the people you look up to have an extreme distaste of. "

" AJ-HMMMM, where's the planes? Did you not see them, like every other person on this planet? You are correct in your opinion that our US government is guilty of alot of atrocities over the years. One thing they could not possibly be guilty of is WTC. Maybe the only blame that can be laid at the feet of the US is the fact that our agencies (CIA & FBI)did not communicate to the presence of the savages in our country to each other. Hind sight is 20/20. We watch the eerie footage of the savages getting on our plane prior to the suicide mission, knowing full well that it could have been stopped. For that, I am angry at our government. Now, Karl--we've had this discussion before about the hating the liberals. I don't hate anyone. Yes I am patriotic, but not over the top. I do not believe Bush with blind faith as you and AJ would imply. Just think logically----the government could not possibly hide such an agenda. Too many people nosing around. AJ-- You sound like my ex sister in law--she talked and talked, but nothing came out except swamp wind. The article in Rolling Stone is scarry because people like you believe it could happen. You and Rosie are in the same league mentally. I suppose you also belong to PETA. I don't mean to attack you personally--you're probably a nice person. However, you are a drama queen, and have a warped sense of what is truly possible. My 15 year old son laughes at your letters, because he is aware of what is real, and what is not. I guess you believe in global warming, and Santa Clause too? "

" Chris, what a long-winded crock of doo doo. They are lower than pond scum, and have pretty well signed on to an agenda which is out in the open for anyone to see, except those like yourself who are completely blind. "

" Karl and AJ: Do you have a degree in aeronautics, engineering or physics? Can you use basic reasoning to arrive at a logical conclusion? If you answered "No" to these questions, you might have the aptitude and desire necessary to be a 9/11 conspiracy nut. I got the following from Rollingstone magazine: BUSH: So, what's the plan again? CHENEY: Well, we need to invade Iraq and Afghanistan. So what we've decided to do is crash a whole bunch of remote-controlled planes into Wall Street and the Pentagon, say they're real hijacked commercial planes, and blame it on the towelheads; then we'll just blow up the buildings ourselves to make sure they actually fall down. RUMSFELD: Right! And we'll make sure that some of the hijackers are agents of Saddam Hussein! That way we'll have no problem getting the public to buy the invasion. CHENEY: No, Dick, we won't. RUMSFELD: We won't? CHENEY: No, that's too obvious. We'll make the hijackers Al Qaeda and then just imply a connection to Iraq. RUMSFELD: But if we're just making up the whole thing, why not just put Saddam's fingerprints on the attack? CHENEY: (sighing) It just has to be this way, Dick. Ups the ante, as it were. This way, we're not insulated if things go wrong in Iraq. Gives us incentive to get the invasion right the first time around. BUSH: I'm a total idiot who can barely read, so I'll buy that. But I've got a question. Why do we need to crash planes into the Towers at all? Since everyone knows terrorists already tried to blow up that building complex from the ground up once, why don't we just blow it up like we plan to anyway, and blame the bombs on the terrorists? RUMSFELD: Mr. President, you don't understand. It's much better to sneak into the buildings ourselves in the days before the attacks, plant the bombs and then make it look like it was exploding planes that brought the buildings down. That way, we involve more people in the plot, stand a much greater chance of being exposed and needlessly complicate everything! CHENEY: Of course, just toppling the Twin Towers will never be enough. No one would give us the war mandate we need if we just blow up the Towers. Clearly, we also need to shoot a missile at a small corner of the Pentagon to create a mightily underpublicized additional symbol of international terrorism -- and then, obviously, we need to fake a plane crash in the middle of fucking nowhere in rural Pennsylvania. RUMSFELD: Yeah, it goes without saying that the level of public outrage will not be sufficient without that crash in the middle of nowhere. CHENEY: And the Pentagon crash -- we'll have to do it in broad daylight and say it was a plane, even though it'll really be a cruise missile. BUSH: Wait, why do we have to use a missile? CHENEY: Because it's much easier to shoot a missile and say it was a plane. It's not easy to steer a real passenger plane into the Pentagon. Planes are hard to come by. BUSH: But aren't we using two planes for the Twin Towers? CHENEY: Mr. President, you're missing the point. With the Pentagon, we use a missile, and say it was a plane. BUSH: Right, but I'm saying, why don't we just use a plane and say it was a plane? We'll be doing that with the Twin Towers, right? CHENEY: Right, but in this case, we use a missile. (Throws hands up in frustration) Don, can you help me out here? RUMSFELD: Mr. President, in Washington, we use a missile because it's sneakier that way. Using an actual plane would be too obvious, even though we'll be doing just that in New York. BUSH: Oh, OK. RUMSFELD: The other good thing about saying that it was a passenger jet is that that way, we have to invent a few hundred fictional victims and account for a nonexistent missing crew and plane. It's always better when you leave more cover story to invent, more legwork to do and more possible holes to investigate. Doubt, legwork and possible exposure -- you can't pull off any good conspiracy without them. BUSH: You guys are brilliant! Because if there's one thing about Americans -- they won't let a president go to war without a darn good reason. How could we ever get the media, the corporate world and our military to endorse an invasion of a secular Iraqi state unless we faked an attack against New York at the hands of a bunch of Saudi religious radicals? Why, they'd never buy it. Look at how hard it was to get us into Vietnam, Iraq the last time, Kosovo? CHENEY: Like pulling teeth! RUMSFELD: Well, I'm sold on the idea. Let's call the Joint Chiefs, the FAA, the New York and Washington, D.C., fire departments, Rudy Giuliani, all three networks, the families of a thousand fictional airline victims, MI5, the FBI, FEMA, the NYPD, Larry Eagleburger, Osama bin Laden, Noam Chomsky and the fifty thousand other people we'll need to pull this off. There isn't a moment to lose! BUSH: Don't forget to call all of those Wall Street hotshots who donated $100 million to our last campaign. They'll be thrilled to know that we'll be targeting them for execution as part of our thousand-tentacled modern-day bonehead Reichstag scheme! After all, if we're going to make martyrs -- why not make them out of our campaign paymasters? Jeez, didn't the Merrill Lynch guys say they needed a refurbishing in their New York offices? RUMSFELD: Oh, they'll get a refurbishing, all right. Just in time for the "Big Wedding"! ALL THREE: (cackling) Mwah-hah-hah! "

" Chris, I've read through the Popular Mechanics "rebuttal" and I found it a very cleverly crafted piece of apologetic propaganda. It takes a lot of the weaker arguments, many of which I don't even buy into, and dissembles them. It completely ignores the strongest arguments. It reminds me of the type of stuff I get every now and then from Christian apologists who try to convince me that there is a god. Stuff that would convince the neophyte, or the Novice agnostic, but worthless to someone who's done his research. I can define a fool too, danw...Someone who's so blindly patriotic that they won't even entertain the idea that a group as corrupt, mendacious, power-hungry-at-all-cost and the MOST SECRETIVE government in history would NOT be capable of the demolition of WTC. Especially when CHENEY HIMSELF "predicted" it in his speech to the Project for a New American Century. It would not be the first time that American government has MURDERED its own citizens tor gain; do your research. BTW, Rosie's an idiot. You guys dismay me with your blind loyalty to this despicable government, who doesn't deserve it. Of course it's really NOT about Bushlove; it's just that you guys hate your beloved, caricatured "Liberal" more than you love your country! "

" Karl, I understand the thought, but let's not forget that Bush didn't legitimately win the elections in the first place. Anyhow, for me it's about as fun as hemorrhoids. If it weren't for the fact that Bush and Cheney and his neocon cabal have killed and maimed so many innocent people and placed the world on the brink of disaster for power, profit, and domination, and have successfully gotten a not insignificant portion of the gullible public to buy into the lies and madness, I'd be laughing hysterically. "

" I know how to spell DD, no doubt a lot better than yourself. Besides, you should look at your own before criticizing others. It really makes you look foolish. I spelled it that way as i thought I might not pass the robotic censor that is now in place, but now that I realize butt is acceptable I'll use it. You're a butthead if you do not believe the government is capable of such atrocities, especially under dictators like Bush and Cheney. And where pray tell was all the debris from that plane DD? I didn't see any. Just a gaping hole. Where'd it all go? DD, nothing personal here, but you make a brick look smart. "

" Chris, the Popular Mechanics articles have been totally discredited as has the NIST report. NIST is a government agency. First of all, it doesn't take a rocket scientist (or even an engineer for that matter) to recognize all of the violations of basic laws of physics, inconsistencies and improbabilities regarding the conspiracy theory put forth by the commission run by a Bush loyalist and fellow neocon. In fact, I think anyone who looked at the info would have to be a moron not to see all of the problems with the official theory. And not that I am an expert, but as someone who has been in the building trades as a carpenter for over a decade and studied structural engineering, their bs doesn't pass the smell test. There is NO way that the two main towers could have possibly have collapsed into their own footprint so neatly, at virtual FREE-FALL speed, and without the CORE COLUMN ASSEMBLY INTACT, without the use of explosives. Besides, there is plenty of visual evidence of explosions and diagonally cut columns from all of the various footage assembled as well as scores of eyewitnesses describing the explosions. (And it is funny, isn't it, that members of the Bush family always show up in the strangest places? It turns out that Marvin Bush just happened to be head of security of WTC.) The fires were not hot enough to seriously weaken or melt the steel, and because of the way they were designed, should have easily withstood and safely distributed the minimal impact and heat stresses put on them. Then there is building 7, which was never hit by a plane, but nonetheless collapsed neatly into itself after burning most of the day, in what appears to be a classic CD at free fall speed. Even Silverstein was on video admitting that they "pulled" the building, which is a demolition term for bringing a building down. You'd have to be r etarded to NOT question the official conspiracy theory and demand a REAL investigation. Lots of airline pilots and structural engineers have been mobilizing to push for just that. Regarding Popular Mechanics, I'm not sure what their agenda is, except they are part of a huge media machine which has right wing ties and their work was questionable at best and laced with errors. Speaking of media, ever notice a lot of the clips that were shown on day one of the attack were never aired again? Anything that would end up discrediting the eventual official story never saw the light of day in the mainstream mass-market media after day 1. The bottom line is that the official story is so ludicrous that it should be obvious to anyone with a pulse giving it even the most casual scrutiny. I have only scratched the surface here - there are hundreds of unanswered questions that need to be investigated. Regarding the secrecy aspect, well, the atomic bomb was one example of such a successful undertaking. But the truth is, much information IS already out there and lots of people have come forward (not talking about the players) that were there that day who question and contradict the official story - the MSM just doesn't focus on them at all and do what they can to ignore or discredit them in some way. It seems odd to me that given how "liberal" the media is in your strange minds, you would be quick to question their handling of the events. It is all a coverup, and the media IS NOT liberal, at least not the news bias. For anyone who hasn't seen these, I urge you to watch 911 mysteries part 1 Demolitions. I think it is on YouTube. This is the best 911 video of them all, and sequels will hopefully follow soon. I also urge everyone who has'nt to read any of David Ray Griffin's 9/11 books. Clear, concise, and logical, his work is especially useful in understanding the problems between the official conspiracy theory and reality. "

" I can define a fool. "Someone who belives that the US goverment. Conspired to take down the world trade center, attack the pentagon and flight 93 that the passengers fought back that crashed in a field in PA." Now that is a FOOL! Its not even an opinion, its a lie spread over in the middle east, one of many. Some people need to read up a bit on events in the middle east. Not the news, history over the past 1400 yrs. Might wake you up a bit. "

" You forgot me too Karl. I'm back from a long vacation. I'm looking forward to sparring with AJ the scholar. AJ: you misspelled "butt". Also, I'm sure the two of you are followers of Rosie O'Donnel who believes that the "attack" was orchesrated by our government. I saw a clip of her saying that fire has never melted metal. Amazing theory. AJ, didn't I see you the other day in your Rosie T-shirt? "

" AJ, I bother with these people because these are the kind of fools who will voye someone like Bush into office again if not made to reconsider their folly. Plus, it's fun! "

" AJ, I've put up links to NIST, Popular Mechanics, etc...the folks with PhDs in structural and mechanical engineering but you'd rather believe a couple of guys (one of whom just was arrested for desertion from the Army) with no formal education or experience in building design, structure or mechanics or aircraft because it doesn't fit your predjudices due to your intense case of Bush Derangement Syndrome. What evidence you/they offer is conjecture, conspiricy and circumstantial while the info I've tried to provide is filled with actual numbers, physics, etc...you know those facts that seem to scare you so. Big difference. Maybe you can replace Rosie on the View? And by the way, do you actually think the government could actually keep a secret of this magnatude? Really? "

" Karl, why do we bother with these people? It is an exercise in futility. They've got their heads so far up Bush's but that they don't know up from down. If the subjects were'nt so serious, I'd be rolling on the floor laughing so hard at their stupidity my sides would be aching. "

" Chris, if that is not the pot calling the kettle black - I have yet to see any facts from you. All you do is parrot right wing lies and bs from the likes of Coulter and Limberger, who get their talking points directly from the White house. "

" What PROOF do you have that extremist Islamists did it? The truth is that so-called investigation offered nothing as far as proof goes and hid many details that they did not want us to hear about - like credible witness testimony regarding explosions, and there was a lot of that. Then of course it was run by a Bush loyalist and neocon by the name of Zellikow - look him up. And then you had Fire Magazine calling the investigation a "half-baked farce. And to top it all off, Cheney and Bush testified together rather than separately, and not under oath at that. If indeed there were "Islamist Savages" commandeering those planes into the towers, it is likely that they were there as a convenient cover for the planned demolition. It is also curious to note that of the 19 alleged hijackers, 15 of them were from Saudi Arabia. Haven't you ever wondered why we didn't invade Saudi Arabia instead of Iraq? Apparently no one has ever told you that kool aid is not good for you. "

" Karl maybe you should give up music and go into science fiction writing. Yeah, thats it...Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz and George Bush are our evil alien overlords controlling everyone with GOP mind rays. I hope your tin foil hat is strapped down tight! "

" Oops,--forgot you, dirtysanchez...you guys DO realize that he's talking about YOU guys, dontcha?! By the way, the collapse of the Twin Towers was orchestrated by some "black" program of professionals who blew them up with charges. This was undoubtedly approved by Dick Cheney, Wolfowitz and the other "doomsday" neocons. Please, do some research on how governments murder their own citizens for politiical motives and gain... "

" What do you mean by study our past history in this area? When was the last time, other than Pearl Harbor, we were attacked on our own soil, without provocation? You make it sound like this has happened many times. You are a whiner Mike. PS-who cares how we are pictured by everyone else. Invaders, occupiers, whatever..... Innocent people were murdered by the Islamist savages, and you liberal idiots do nothing but complain that we should have just let everyone go who supports the efforts of the savages. "

" Liberals base many of their arguements on emotion, not fact, as is the case with this letter. What Mr. Giaclone presents is his OPINION, not evidence, which is fine being that this is an editorial page. "

" My predicted responders: brew, dan w, rd, and of course, Chris Van Coulter... "