" OnlineReader, re: manure digester. I'll be curious to see about that myself. Let's say I am watching with interest and trying to keep an open mind on the subject. I know some people have raised a concern about the trucking of large amounts of manure some distance the same way people have concerns about the trucking of large amounts of other garbage a distance. I have heard rumblings about whether more energy is used up by the digesting process than it produces, but I have not researched that myself (yet!) And I suppose there are still storage concerns just as there are for the "lagoons" on individual farms right now. If some other more objective reader has more expertise s/he would like to share, please do. But at least in theory, the digester idea sounds plausible. I'm waiting and watching, but in the meantime, my water is still bad and there has been more spreading on the same fields since then.... "

" Clinton didn't get prison time for lying infront of a Grand Jury. Why isn't Sandy Berger or Jefferson Clinton in prison? "

" What about the manure digester??? Will that help us??? "

" For Dan W and anyone else interested: Try the Sierra Club, try Citizen's Environmental Coalition (the one in Albany) -- check their "Wasting of Rural New York State: Factory Farms and Public Health" document -- and try Farm Wives United, though the latter has more of a religious underpinning that suits me personally. Feel free to research all you can, but perhaps these are starting points -- or go to your public library and ask for some assistance finding more information. "

" I have to say--Cheeko, you are right about the presidentsy--no one can win it if it doesn't exist. Use spill chik. Another note-It is funny how the Liberals are blasting Bush for commuting Libby's sentence. Do you remember Clinton when he left office? Look at the criminals he pardoned, and then try to throw stones! "

" Dan W -- you are not alone. Yes, there are regulations, but the DEC does not enforce them. They admit they only even inspected 30 out of 134 CAFO (factory) farms between 2001-2005. Even then, they just look at the CAFO's NMP (Nutrition Management Plan) -- they have no way to check to verify the farm has been following the plan. Also, although the NMP is a public document in other states, in New York, the only copy is kept AT THE FARM! Even if the DEC inspects a farm, they don't keep a copy of the plan -- that way, no one can file a Freedom of Information Act request to see the document. So you, as a concerned citizen, are prevented from proving that Farm X is spreading more manure than their plan allows. I've been watching the spreading on a field near my house. I counted trucks, found the capacity of the tankers hauling the manure to the field by looking up the manufacturers online, and totalled the hours of spreading, and got a look at a tax map for the acres on which it was spread in a 36 hour period, two days before a heavy rain on hard non-absorbant soil. I came up with 630,000 gallons of liquid manure on 39 acres. Then I consulted with a friend who works for the FDA in another state. She did some more math, using the average manure nutrient rates, and it still comes out to way, way more than would ever be allowed even for the very best corn crop (corn apparently has more "uptake" of nutrients than many other crops) -- so, even after the uptake (i.e crop needs) and the allowance for loss (into the air, to microbes living in the soil and some small relatively safe amount they figure to loss into the ground to the water supply, this was an overspreading. But you just go try to get the DEC to do anything about it -- they protect the big factory farms and are not interested in investigating. Best you can do is get the newspaper interested -- but then you have to put your name on the line and take the inevitable flak. And you are right -- they will tell you it's "non-point-source" pollution and you "can't be sure" it doesn't come from deer pooping in the woods, from geese pooping in the lake, or from someone's compromised septic. But my well is polluted, my landlady's well is polluted, my neighbor two doors up has a polluted well and so does the small farm up from there. That's not a single bad septic system or a huge herd of deer in the woods! Look for more details in the articles from the Post-Standard on 2 Oct and 5 Oct 2005, check out Cornell's info, ask around and get involved. There are several grassroots organizations locally -- I know individual people's names but not the organization's name -- I'll post them if I can dig them up. You have every reason to be concerned -- please do keep a record and bring it along to share with other concerned residents. Using manure for fertilizer is a GOOD, healthy way to recycle and reuse, but only if it is done in an environmentally responsible fashion -- and that does not include spreading on frozen ground in the winter, or overspreading any time of the year. These big CAFOs like to claim they have to have thousands of cows to "maintain a decent standard of living" -- but I know small farmers who live just fine on 65-100 cows -- I don't consider the second house on the lake and the multiple expensive vehicles per household "a decent standard of living" -- I'd say they are supporting a fairly high standard of living, esp. with the aid of all those government subsidies for "poor struggling farmers" (if only the majority of the money went to the small farmers who truly DO struggle, instead of the big factory farms). I say it's just plain old-fashioned materialistic greed that drives them to have more animals than the land can bear, and they are sacrificing our water and the future of our lakes to support their high standard of living. It's time for some accountability, time for the DEC to stop shielding them from the repercussions of their actions. We have enough cows in Cayuga County -- let's put an end to expansion of those already too big CAFOs, and demand that they make their NMPs public (and publically understandable, since they are really complex) and that the regulations we have be enforced for the health of this land now and in the future. "

" Well 3 yrs ago I spent 18k for replacement septic system. I live on the Cayuga Lake water shed. I see thousands of gallons. Of liquid manure spread on top of melting snow. That is more than if my family used the lake for a toilet. For our life time and beyond. There has to be DEC rules about spreading liquid manure under the conditions? Geeez, I wonder whats wrong with Owasco lake then? Its not geese, ducks or seagulls. I figured that out and I wasn't paid 60 k a year. Its only taxpayers money, dig deeper. It only hurts until the tax man comes. "

" Scooter Libby pardoned? My! Thats a no brainer for Bush. "

" Hillary, Hillary, she's not our girl, she can not win the PRESIDENTCY because she can not win on the total picture of what it takes to reunite the 'Bush' errors that exist now. The other idoit of New York, the independent Mayor, has an equal chance of failure also. The winner, the Law & Order to be candidate. "

" The top jobs and stock ticker are still in the way. "

" To the person who got their car egged, I'm sorry! There really some jerks in this city who "get off" on theft & vandalism. This continually happens, and I just hope that someday, the jerks get what they deserve! "

" Say, Owasco Lake Pollution Problem poster -- we seem to think alike, LOL! See my comments in Citizen's Say under the article on the water testing in Skaneateles Lake in today's paper. I'd like to see the same testing in ALL the lakes, not just the one surrounded by more wealthy people, and also the tributaries pouring into the lakes. Then I'd like to see the sources of pollution identified and stopped, the damage cleaned up, and protections put in place and ENFORCED (c'mon DEC, that's SUPPOSED to be your job!) to protect the future of our lakes. "